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Games => TSoG => TSoG Wish List => Topic started by: Zhampir on March 11, 2010, 10:45:05 PM

Title: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zhampir on March 11, 2010, 10:45:05 PM
Does any body else feel that this should be expanded?

Sure we have access to the main room, but there are two separate corridors. Certainly the bandits had sleeping quarters, a kitchen and dining area, a training room, storage for their plunders, and the entrance hall in their cave?

I think the Cave should be expanded to include these areas (and possibly more) with various quests associated with each room.

The Entrance hall; Malis is disgraced with utter rugged appearance of the cave and would like to spruce it up. She knows of a Cult convoy that is transporting many expensive silks and rugs and wishes for you to retrieve them for her. With the decoration of the cave, perhaps some soldiers are convinced to join your cause because you actually look like a functioning organization that's not hiding out in a run-down cave or some fat dude's basement. This could also be a moral boost for your men enhancing strength/health in a small amount.

The kitchen
1. Set is displeased with the supplies he has to cook the food for the army and would like you to capture a rare animal/plant, so they may harvest this animal/plant for better meals. Provides a boost in overall health of the soldiers

2. Set is overwhelmed with the amount of soldiers he must now feed and requires assistants (after all, who's going to cook when Set is out helping to battle the Cult?) and needs you to run around finding willing and good cooks. Could provide more soldiers or a speed boost (I'm thinking the soldiers will likely be like the enemy and move only a few squares so our soldiers' speed could be increased from 3 to 4 or 4 to 5) as a well fed soldier will have more energy.

The Dining hall
: A soldier (perhaps a scout) is upset at the lack of dishes (indicated by very few men eating with a long line waiting for a meal) and has discovered a convoy of Cultists that are transporting a large supply of fine dining equipment to the palace in Ravinvale, as a god and his men must only eat with the best of dishes. So, the scout implores you to attack them in the high-and-mighty arrogance and take the dishes for the army. This also helps with the well fed army and must be completed in order to gain the very helpful speed boost from the above mentioned quest.

The Training Room; Griffin is in charge of training the entire army and needs help. For one, there are gifted soldiers in the army that he has no idea to train and because of the vast amount of soldiers now there is no way he can train them all effectively. So, Griffin asks you to train these soldiers, and the best way is by hands-on battles, so you must battle your troops (not killing them, mind you). Possible rewards are, increased psy power, strength, or health for your troops, or even new skills (that mimic your own party's attacks, after all, why should your party be the strongest of their regime?)

The Storage Room: Arman is having trouble with the security system on the vault and asks you to try to break it. You are given a list of options, if your aptitude is high enough (say 20) you bypass the lock completely and safely, if not, however, you are given two options. 1. Run around from person to person (the Marid Clan Leader to the Librarian to perhaps Fizooz [which will likely require its own string of a sub-quest to partially restore his memory] who was contracted to break into the vault) to learn how to disarm the lock. 2. blast the door open which unleashes a wave of enemies, a personality check is performed and if it is high enough, the defenders (hopefully some type of new golem, perhaps the Cannon Golems, [or Steel Bar Shooting Golems {SBSG Mark I}as they seem to be now]) join your army. However if your personality fails you must destroy them. If you pass another aptitude check then you are able to completely understand their structure and talk to the Marid Clan leader about reconstructing them to join your team. However, if you fail, he sends you off to the Librarian again to find some research on the origins of the golems (they possibly were used in a battle between Ravinale and the Marid, with all the Marid's Archer-Golems to have thought to unfortunately be all demolished in the battle). The librarian remembers a book and so you set off to your storage in Baz's basement to find the book, but it is not found, remembering Set had "borrowed" some books you run back to him and ask him if he has it. He does but regrets that it is in some odd language, you recognize it to be shadowlingish and head over to Malis to get a translation. She agrees after some persuasion (possibly a completely other side-quest if your personality doesn't pass another check) to translate the book. With the book translated you travel back to the Marid Clan Chief who starts on rebuilding the golems. (By the way, having golems in your army, I think, would be a big deal, so I wanted the accumulation of these golems to be quite difficult) Also, if you are able to open the lock without alerting the guards you find the room to be filled with the golems, unactivated. as you walk up to one, the crystal within it resonates to your Psy power and the golem comes to life, they then, believing you are a general from the previous battle because you knew the code wakens his companions and joins you in your campaign.

P.S. I hope this is a major enough of a contribution for you KZ lol ^^ :P
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: torugo on March 12, 2010, 04:28:25 PM
i dont think it is possible to put all of that in because that is a lot to gain off of just one small area and the speed boost thing for arman and set i dont think that would work either the green orb iis going to be put in at one point and you wont need any more speed
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zhampir on March 12, 2010, 08:23:57 PM
no the speed boost is not for your teammates but for your army. The soldiers that have a typical speed of 3
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: torugo on March 13, 2010, 10:23:46 AM
oh sorry
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: cyso on March 13, 2010, 12:21:57 PM
Having the bandit caves expanded would be nice. After all, two hallways are already in place. It would be a little weird to have them their if you couldn't go down there.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zackirus on March 13, 2010, 02:46:50 PM
I argee that the banit cave should be expaned, maybe even adding a guy who will play dice with you. The improvemnts for the soliders could be used later in the game unless craig wants to keep the soliders the same.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: cyso on March 13, 2010, 02:49:13 PM
Just one question. Where would former guardsmen who have been forced to resort to raiding and stealing get those golems from. For that mater, where would they get a hard to open vault?
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zhampir on March 13, 2010, 03:33:17 PM
the vault was already there, the Raiders discovered it but could never open it. As drunken unruly bandits they lacked the knowledge, and more importantly, will power to open it. They likely tried at first but said to heck with it when they no-longer could open it.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Presentiment on March 13, 2010, 03:35:02 PM
the vault was already there, the Raiders discovered it but could never open it. As drunken unruly bandits they lacked the knowledge, and more importantly, will power to open it. They likely tried at first but said to heck with it when they no-longer could open it.

That sounds like lazy reasoning to me.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: cyso on March 13, 2010, 04:05:55 PM
The fact that bandits couldn't open a vault that even Arman (a former contract killer) couldn't open makes sense. So, where did the vault come from. Maybe the Mechanics were using the cave as a base first, but were driven out by the bandits since they didn't have time to activate the golems.
If you think that the golems belonged to the Helenites, please remember that I came up with the original idea for the golems anyways.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zhampir on March 13, 2010, 04:36:01 PM
As to their origins, the Helenites could be appropriate... and the quest could be altered to reflect this.
Such as Fizooz sending you out to recover a journal of his (hidden in the great forest, perhaps) that dictates the Vault came from an advanced military group that tactically retreated from the area after being attacked by the cult. that group was the Helenites. depending on how the game plays out (specifically if we meet with the Helenites) would effect how the rest of this plays out...
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: cyso on March 13, 2010, 04:44:17 PM
Actually, I would prefer if the Mechanics created the golem to compete with the Helenites.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zhampir on March 13, 2010, 05:06:15 PM
I don't see how a storyline involving them being from the mechanics could possibly work...
No... in order to fit with the idea of them being a special unique group of golems would have to suggest a rival to the mechanics and a deviation from their golems. Having the Helenites being the creators is logical and flows well. Plus it is a nice easter egg, showing a connection to the previous game, yet keeping the game separate.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: SmartyPants on March 13, 2010, 05:18:16 PM
The Entrance hall; Malis is disgraced with utter rugged appearance of the cave and would like to spruce it up. She knows of a Cult convoy that is transporting many expensive silks and rugs and wishes for you to retrieve them for her. With the decoration of the cave, perhaps some soldiers are convinced to join your cause because you actually look like a functioning organization that's not hiding out in a run-down cave or some fat dude's basement. This could also be a moral boost for your men enhancing strength/health in a small amount.
The Resistance should sell the silk and rugs for food and weapons.  Decorating the cave is waste of time.  Just think how pretty military bunkers are.

The kitchen 1. Set is displeased with the supplies he has to cook the food for the army and would like you to capture a rare animal/plant, so they may harvest this animal/plant for better meals. Provides a boost in overall health of the soldiers

2. Set is overwhelmed with the amount of soldiers he must now feed and requires assistants (after all, who's going to cook when Set is out helping to battle the Cult?) and needs you to run around finding willing and good cooks. Could provide more soldiers or a speed boost (I'm thinking the soldiers will likely be like the enemy and move only a few squares so our soldiers' speed could be increased from 3 to 4 or 4 to 5) as a well fed soldier will have more energy.
The non-character soldiers will probably not fight outside a cut-scene, so a boost in speed or health doesn't matter.  Instead of a kitchen, it would be more pratical to make a fire like the one in the center of the Marid Camp.

The Storage Room: Arman is having trouble with the security system on the vault and asks you to try to break it. You are given a list of options, if your aptitude is high enough (say 20) you bypass the lock completely and safely, if not, however, you are given two options. 1. Run around from person to person (the Marid Clan Leader to the Librarian to perhaps Fizooz [which will likely require its own string of a sub-quest to partially restore his memory] who was contracted to break into the vault) to learn how to disarm the lock. 2. blast the door open which unleashes a wave of enemies, a personality check is performed and if it is high enough, the defenders (hopefully some type of new golem, perhaps the Cannon Golems, [or Steel Bar Shooting Golems {SBSG Mark I}as they seem to be now]) join your army. However if your personality fails you must destroy them. If you pass another aptitude check then you are able to completely understand their structure and talk to the Marid Clan leader about reconstructing them to join your team. However, if you fail, he sends you off to the Librarian again to find some research on the origins of the golems (they possibly were used in a battle between Ravinale and the Marid, with all the Marid's Archer-Golems to have thought to unfortunately be all demolished in the battle). The librarian remembers a book and so you set off to your storage in Baz's basement to find the book, but it is not found, remembering Set had "borrowed" some books you run back to him and ask him if he has it. He does but regrets that it is in some odd language, you recognize it to be shadowlingish and head over to Malis to get a translation. She agrees after some persuasion (possibly a completely other side-quest if your personality doesn't pass another check) to translate the book. With the book translated you travel back to the Marid Clan Chief who starts on rebuilding the golems. (By the way, having golems in your army, I think, would be a big deal, so I wanted the accumulation of these golems to be quite difficult) Also, if you are able to open the lock without alerting the guards you find the room to be filled with the golems, unactivated. as you walk up to one, the crystal within it resonates to your Psy power and the golem comes to life, they then, believing you are a general from the previous battle because you knew the code wakens his companions and joins you in your campaign.
What vault?  The major security for the Cave are watch guards.  If the enemy is coming, then the Resistance needs to hide or flee.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zhampir on March 13, 2010, 05:30:30 PM
Decor is not a waste. This isn't just a base for the resistance, it is a home for the rebels. and a woman's touch is all ways appreciated.

As Craig has stated, the game can support battles without the main, as noticed with Arman. What's the use of accumulating soldiers if they hold no importance? Craig has made a point on limiting die rolls and concentrating on using strategy. Thus, we'll likely have battle utilizing the soldiers.

And as to the vault your incompetence astounds me. Have you not even read the description? The vault was not some simple installation in the cave but (possibly) a storage area for the Helenites or an older armada. Where a reinforcement force of golems awaited command for battle. Please read the entire entry before making such rude remarks. Also, you may wish to try and be constructive with your complete refusal of another's ideas.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Presentiment on March 13, 2010, 05:43:51 PM
...
I honestly think you're being the rude one. You have to think about your reasoning here.

-Why would the Helenites leave their equipment in such a place?
-Where are they now?
-The Helenites were established in northern Cera Bella, and have not been hired by anyone in the South. There is no reason for them to be here.
-What kind of conflict existed in southern Cera Bella to indicate such an armada would be needed?
-(assuming there was) Would a few caves be enough for one side to consider using them to hold reinforcements?
-Why were they not activated before?
-Why wouldn't the bandits be educated and clever?
-The swordsman at the labor site suggested hiring the Helenites. That does not support the Cult's having any beef with that mercenary group.
-What's new that the fifty new soldiers can do that would help in the regular battles? I agree with im2smart4u on this point; it is unlikely the battle logistics will be worked out so you can control all of those soldiers.
-Your reasoning is incredibly lazy. You gloss over all your points. Why would the Resistance prefer having decor vs. necessities? Besides, having the decor there is just a big red sign saying "This is where the Resistance is headquartered, come and kill us".
 
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: SmartyPants on March 13, 2010, 05:57:43 PM
And as to the vault your incompetence astounds me. Have you not even read the description? The vault was not some simple installation in the cave but (possibly) a storage area for the Helenites or an older armada. Where a reinforcement force of golems awaited command for battle. Please read the entire entry before making such rude remarks. Also, you may wish to try and be constructive with your complete refusal of another's ideas.
Stop projecting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection) your rudeness onto me.  Don't throw a fit, because I disagree with bad ideas.  I did read the entire thing.  I just don't understand why anyone would build a vault in a random cave, so they could store golems.  Golems are expense, so mercenaries would want them on hand to use instead of letting them rot in a cave.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: cyso on March 13, 2010, 05:59:17 PM
I prefer the Mechanics having the golem. The golem could serve as a cheap counter to some of the other golems the Helenites have.
After all, have the Helenites get the Dorgon and the new golem wouldn't leave much competition between the two factions.
Then again, having the Helenites have the golem could work. I guess it doesn't make that big of a difference.
im2smart4u: The cave could have been a former headquarters for a mercenary group. The removed Rainvale Guardsmen could have taken the cave by force since they needed shelter. There would have been a lot more of them than when you fight Jabbar's bandits, as many of them were killed during the fight.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zhampir on March 13, 2010, 06:10:13 PM
For the Helenites leaving leaving their best golems somewhere they have never been, I have no idea how to possible explain that.

As I said in the original post, what ever army that was using the golems was destroyed before their commander ever reached the cave and activated them.

It is mentioned that Ravinvale and the surrounding colonies have often be at odds and Marid has a deep running hatred because of it.

Perhaps they lost all their technology in their final battle, and only a few (noting the very few in the clan) were able to retreat and survive.

I simply liked the idea of the Helenites because of Barzul's story involving their incredible technology, I didn't mean to suggest that they completely fit with the idea.

You likely won't control all of them, you'll just control them in a few battles with the Cult's soldiers symbolizing the Resistance's invasion and reclamation of their city.

How could decor possibly show that they are the resistance? Having a completely militaristic appearing cave would be more of a flashing sign than a decorated homely cave. The resistance could simply claim that they were another colony like Marid or Rubat. Besides it's no doubt the Cult will come. They offer two options; join or die. The ability of the resistance to claim that it is its own colony is very useful to keep them Cult spies from being suspicious. They could even explain the training grounds by saying that every clan needs protection verses the deadly animals in the desert. My reasoning is not lazy, I'm just lazy at explaining my reasoning =P
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Presentiment on March 13, 2010, 06:28:14 PM
And who'd be living in a cave? o.O
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: cyso on March 13, 2010, 06:36:58 PM
Before the bandits were cleared out, the bandits lived in the cave (obviously).
After the bandits left, your soldiers and the workers you rescue live in the cave.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Presentiment on March 13, 2010, 06:37:48 PM
Yup, and those caves would be decorated like a home?
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: cyso on March 13, 2010, 06:47:31 PM
Well, maybe not that nice, but people have to sleep somewhere. You can decorate a cave. It won't be as nice as a home, but you can do it.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Presentiment on March 13, 2010, 07:57:39 PM
My point was that because the only people expected to live in the caves are bandits who didn't care much for the Cult finding them, having a decorated cave arouses suspicion and draws attention, something the Resistance doesn't want or need.

You completely missed my point.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: cyso on March 13, 2010, 08:37:00 PM
The cave would be decorated on the inside. Only if the Cult went inside the cave would they notice.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zackirus on March 13, 2010, 08:38:33 PM
All I really want for the cave is too have NPCs who you can talk to, and myabe the guy who will play dice with you.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zhampir on March 13, 2010, 09:01:25 PM
all I want is to pack this game with as much high quality, time consuming, engaging, humorous, and enjoyable content as possible. and I found that the cave could be one area that could be vastly improved. as for the kitchen being little more than a fire, I'm sure that it would be little more than that (maybe a cool spring for fresh water, with a stone-based stove)

I fail to see how I am projecting my thoughts of not having helpful criticism when I have offered a solution to the situation and you have offered none, unless of your suggestion is complete removal, of the idea. but many golems, even ones that you have come up with, have been greatly enjoyed by the community, and I was just trying to give one possible scenario in which they could be implemented. I'm sorry if if the limited details of my proposals do not fit your standard, but I do wish you would help to build upon them, instead of completely dismissing the idea.

By homely I simply meant that the cave would appear more like a livable colony of civilization instead of a run down, rag-tag organization of warriors squatting in a damp dark cave like primordial beasts. Please disregard my use of poetic license if it disturbs you so.

Even though this is not the place to discuss the issue of how the army will be implemented it has been brought up here and I don't feel the need to create an entirely new post just so you understand my reasoning as to the bonuses to the army, so here it is:
    There will likely be a mix of soldiers you have as well as some recruits from the slaves you rescued. Some will be archers, some warriors, and some could implement the widely liked scout class. If others are recruited (the golems for instance) they can also be used in your army. Basically it would be set up like the arena, you choose which one to be the "leader" of the group and the team from a list of what is available. If one dies you loose that unit permanently (all though, I suppose Luca could bring them back... but I think that would just encourage people to waste the units they have and just charge with little thought of strategy). You then take this team into battle against the cultists. (training could also be this way, you have a group of soldiers spare with another group, a few battles of this, focusing on different team sets [all melee, all ranged, etc]) There would only be a few battles to represent the many battles being fought, with your team also attacking in the main fights of the game (like storming the palace, fighting the Cult leaders, and the ultimate showdown with Yawa).  Having this implementation will help with the importance of actually getting an army. Make no mistake, Yawa will be confronted, and an ending to this conflict betwixt the Cult and the Resistance will be found. (is there really any other direction this game could go?)

If any one feels the need to discuss how the soldiers will actually be implemented, you can go ahead an create such a topic, I will not, however, since I think that there are far more important things on the forum, and not on the forum, that beg discussion.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: SmartyPants on March 14, 2010, 09:51:30 AM
By homely I simply meant that the cave would appear more like a livable colony of civilization instead of a run down, rag-tag organization of warriors squatting in a damp dark cave like primordial beasts. Please disregard my use of poetic license if it disturbs you so.
Sorry for the news flash, but they are a rag-tag organization of warriors. I don't think a desert cave is very damp.


Decor is not a waste. This isn't just a base for the resistance, it is a home for the rebels. and a woman's touch is all ways appreciated.
Think about the interior of a battleship.  The crew spend so much of thier time on the ship that it can be considered their home.  Just because the ship is considered home to crew members, doesn't mean the military is going to install carpet and pretty wallpaper.


    There will likely be a mix of soldiers you have as well as some recruits from the slaves you rescued. Some will be archers, some warriors, and some could implement the widely liked scout class. If others are recruited (the golems for instance) they can also be used in your army. Basically it would be set up like the arena, you choose which one to be the "leader" of the group and the team from a list of what is available. If one dies you loose that unit permanently (all though, I suppose Luca could bring them back... but I think that would just encourage people to waste the units they have and just charge with little thought of strategy). You then take this team into battle against the cultists. (training could also be this way, you have a group of soldiers spare with another group, a few battles of this, focusing on different team sets [all melee, all ranged, etc]) There would only be a few battles to represent the many battles being fought, with your team also attacking in the main fights of the game (like storming the palace, fighting the Cult leaders, and the ultimate showdown with Yawa).  Having this implementation will help with the importance of actually getting an army. Make no mistake, Yawa will be confronted, and an ending to this conflict betwixt the Cult and the Resistance will be found. (is there really any other direction this game could go?)

If any one feels the need to discuss how the soldiers will actually be implemented, you can go ahead an create such a topic, I will not, however, since I think that there are far more important things on the forum, and not on the forum, that beg discussion.
You base your assumtions off of what? Maybe wishful thinking and your imagenation?
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: cyso on March 14, 2010, 10:11:08 AM
Somewhere, maybe in the description of the game, it said, "change your rag-tag band of warriors into a full fledged fighting force." or something like that.
Battleships aren't that great, and maybe the cave shouldn't be decorated that much. However, you still get a place to sleep and food. In a barrack, you might get a little more. I'm going to try to insert a hyperlink to a picture. Even though it is only the outside, you can see there some good things (nice doors, windows, painted walls, etc.) Maybe not that great, but better than rock walls without a good place to sleep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barracks-sweden.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barracks-sweden.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: SmartyPants on March 14, 2010, 10:23:41 AM
Somewhere, maybe in the description of the game, it said, "change your rag-tag band of warriors into a full fledged fighting force." or something like that.
Who said that when? I don't think anyone said that.

Battleships aren't that great, and maybe the cave shouldn't be decorated that much. However, you still get a place to sleep and food. In a barrack, you might get a little more. I'm going to try to insert a hyperlink to a picture. Even though it is only the outside, you can see there some good things (nice doors, windows, painted walls, etc.) Maybe not that great, but better than rock walls without a good place to sleep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barracks-sweden.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barracks-sweden.jpg)
That is not the interior of the Barracks.  The exterior of the barracks need to look impressive, because no one will take the miltary forces serious if it looks shabby.  A group of rebels has their bases hidden, so it doen't matter what they look like.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: cyso on March 14, 2010, 10:31:30 AM
I think it said formidable fighting force, and I think it was in the old description of the game.
Since they can't decorate the exterior of the cave for obvious reasons, they would have to make the inside of the cave look somewhat impressive to be taken seriously. No one would join the rebels if the cave looked utterly horrible the moment they walked in. They would be thinking to themselves, "How are these people going to combat the Cult? If I stay around these guys, I'll get killed."
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zhampir on March 14, 2010, 11:01:29 AM
Your logic is full of round about statements and seems to not even consider the possibilities. Do you really see the resistance as just a band of unorganized, untrained, poorly-equipped soldiers? If you see them as such, then I think the point of this whole game is lost on you. If they are meant to be portrayed as such and remain as such throughout the game by all ways running from any sign of danger (which they have not done, they've preformed prison breaks, sabotage, and full-on confrontations with the Cult) then there is literally no point for the game to continue and Craig should stop making it now. Fortunatilly, this is not the case, and TSoG will be a game that doesn't just rival major corporations RPGs and makes the world realize that flash as a language, while still not as "powerful" as some of the other languages, is still a force to be reckoned with. Instead, TSoG will be the best, it will usher in a whole new level of RPGs one that completely revolutionizes the way people view them. It will be the first flash game that is not based on its language but of its actual gameplay. The storyline, the character development, the strategy, the puzzles, even the minigames will be a thousand fold better than even the best.

The resistance's cave is not just a barracks, it is a refuge. A refuge for all those persecuted by the cult. Maybe you forget what has transpired in the game? The only actual soldiers that we have come from the Marid, but these soldiers do not even appear in the cave. The only ones that do are the slaves we rescued; me, women, the old and the young, not a group of well-skilled fighters. If you believe that we should give every man, woman, child, and infant a blade and send them to slaughter then so be it, but my proposals will have none of it. I will not through away the lives of the innocent so carelessly. The resistance should foil the Cult in many ways, including in their compassion for life, human or otherwise.

I will not rise to your continued insults of my intellect, but merely suggest you look at what is all ready in place, and you remember the plans for this game. Perhaps you have not read the power, the will, the effectively dominating and resonating voice (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=153.msg1499#msg1499) that Craig has displayed in his deeply founded hopes for this game? I intend for this game to match his dream and show that this is not just a vision of grandeur, but a possibility, nay a definitive.

Think of the interior of High Charity. It is not just a base for the covenant, but a home. It is as beautiful as it is powerful. As deadly as it is homely.

Think less of my logic, and more of yours. Does yours even fit? The resistance is a place of hope for the people. How does saving them only to put them on the front lines show hope? No, such lack of compassion is a weakness. This is not based on my assumptions. Think of how every single person acts when they hear of the resistance. How all those for us think only of the hope and salvation we bring. How we are saving not just militaristic soldiers and guardsmen, but women and children.

and Yogc brings up another good point as all ways. How are we to be taken seriously if we look like nothing more than a bunch of bandits who make small raids against the cult? We've all ready taken out one of their more powerful leaders. We are a force to be reckoned with.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: SmartyPants on March 14, 2010, 02:50:21 PM
You contradict yourself.  First you say they are not "a band of unorganized, untrained, poorly-equipped soldiers" and then say they are "me, women, the old and the young, not a group of well-skilled fighters. Which is it?

I am well aware of what Craig is trying to do.  You are the newbie here.  I don't think cave decorations and illogical quests with plot holes would improve TSoG.

The Bandits who lived in the cave only had stones for chairs and a fire for a kitchen.  Both the Bandits and the Resistance are low on money and would not waste money on lavish decorations.  They would use money on important things like food and weapons.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: Zhampir on March 14, 2010, 03:50:42 PM
There are so many things wrong with what you just said. I grow tired of this. The resistance has an army, and they will be a fine army, but they are also a refuge or is that idea lost on you?

I never mentioned money, if you had read their descriptions you would notice that these require no amount of money.

The only plot hole in this that you have mentioned is that the helenites are not a good group. I never said that it had to be the helenites, in fact, my original idea never even mentions them.

You continue to seek holes in my logic, to no avail. You base your apparent hatred on these ideas with absolutely no evidence. All you give are persecutions that are quite worn out and inapplicable. You call me a noob without even knowing me. You think me to be new, yes? How would you know whether or not I've read the articles in the old forums? How can you possibly claim to know anything about me? Even by your name you show arrogance and incompetence. I simply will not stand by while you show blatant disregard for anything I offer no matter how viable it is. You have not offered anything useful to this post. Rather than fixing the "holes" you just dismiss the idea entirely. The "holes" are that there are corridors that are just sitting there, the cave is little more than that, and it's one area that can be vastly improved.

If you wish to continue not helping with the development of the cave but still wish to argue this you may message me, but be forewarned, I will ignore any attempt you make in bashing the idea on this post as it is neither constructive or useful.

If you do actually come up with an idea that can actually be useful, please post your thoughts. Until then I urge you to reconsider applying more stress where it is neither wanted or needed. Good day sir.
Title: Re: The Bandit Cave
Post by: KZ on March 14, 2010, 04:42:11 PM
Folks, I honestly think this is one argument not worth having. May I remind ye all that the game isn't complete yet and that, from the looks of it, Craig has a very good idea of what we'll see in the rest of the cave (cf Iblis). Thus, in order not to aggravate anyone's feelings, nor continue a pointless argument, I thereby lock this thread and suggest that the creative thought be dircted at adding in extra features to Somnus - something we're more likely to influence Craig in, then the caves. Thank you.