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Games => TSoG => TSoG Wish List => Topic started by: KZ on March 14, 2010, 05:16:31 PM

Title: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 14, 2010, 05:16:31 PM
Given that there is a slim possibility that Gelf might be introduced into the game (see LethalLaurie's and mine submission for the side-mission), and you can ask Gelf questions about their culture, what would you like to find out about the Folks-of-the-Wood? Any facts, curiosities, etc! You can also suggest questions for dialogue too! (But not answers, we'd like to make those up :P)
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 14, 2010, 05:47:28 PM
Are the Folk-of-the-Woods psys?
Since Gelf's shop suddenly appeared, does that mean the Wood-Folk are nomads?
Are there Wood-Folk that live outside the Great Forest?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 14, 2010, 05:53:52 PM
On the first question Craig replied some time ago (hence me providing the answer here): they are not very good psys. That is, they will be bad Psy fighters. However, let's just say that they do have Psy abilities and those will play a role, as you might find out if the collab mission gets into TSoG.

Good questions, anything else?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Zhampir on March 14, 2010, 06:02:23 PM
will they join us as a teammate, a new division of soldiers in our army, not at all, or be hostile?
If they're hostile is it because we angered them by breaking one of their sacred traditions?
Speaking of traditions, what are they?
What are their beliefs?
Are they democratic or totalitarian?
Are they mostly merchants or do they have warriors?
Is their a main village or are they all no-mads? Do they travel in groups or separately?
What is their history with other inhabitants of Cera Bella?
How do we find them, as there was little mention or knowledge of them before?
how is their physique? are they tall, short, plump, skinny, blue eyed, green eyed, varied like humans, etc?
Do they have their own language and subsequent unique names?
Do they know of the Cult, the shadowlings, the Academy, the Marid, the Rubat, the Spriggats?

I think that's enough for now, don't want to overload you. lol ^^  :P
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 14, 2010, 06:18:02 PM
On the first question Craig replied some time ago (hence me providing the answer here): they are not very good psys. That is, they will be bad Psy fighters. However, let's just say that they do have Psy abilities and those will play a role, as you might find out if the collab mission gets into TSoG.
Are all Wood-Folk Psys?
Like humans, are only some of them Psys?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 14, 2010, 06:40:06 PM
What does Gelf considered "pets"?
Can the Wood-Folk contact thier pets?
Like monkeys, do they have hands for feet?
What type of society do the Wook-Folk have? Democratic? Tribalism? Monarchy? Theocracy?
What type of religion do they have?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 12:46:48 PM
I doubt all those questions will make it into the collab mission dialogue, but they're good! Can you kindly rank them, and any others, in the preferred order of seeing answers to them: which would you rather know most, etc?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 15, 2010, 01:07:34 PM
I doubt all those questions will make it into the collab mission dialogue, but they're good! Can you kindly rank them, and any others, in the preferred order of seeing answers to them: which would you rather know most, etc?
Do all the questions have to be in the mission? Could you talk to a character outside the mission? Like speaking to Gelf in his shop or speaking to the Wook-Fok Teammate.

I didn't want to rank others questions against mine, because that would be biased, so I only ranked mine.
1. Are all Wood-Folk Psys? Or like humans, are only some of them Psys?
2. What does Gelf considered "pets"?
3. Since Gelf's shop suddenly appeared, does that mean the Wood-Folk are nomads?
4. What type of society do the Wook-Folk have? Democratic? Tribalism? Monarchy? Theocracy?
5. Like monkeys, do they have hands for feet?
6. Can the Wood-Folk contact thier pets?
7. Are there Wood-Folk that live outside the Great Forest?
8. What type of religion do they have?
9. Do Wood-Folk have tails?
10. Where did the dumb idea of naming every Wood-Folk "Gelf" come from?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Zhampir on March 15, 2010, 01:10:57 PM
I agree with Im2smart4u, all these questions don't have to be answered in a side-quest. Personally I think all these questions should be answered... so I don't have much of a preference, rank my questions as you please.^^
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 02:00:00 PM
I was referring to your own questions, plus any questions of other users you like. That's quite a load of questions though.

For your 10th question, im2msart4u, the very original and neat idea of naming all of them Gelf came from LethalLaurie and me. Tolerance, I say. It shows how greatly different cultures vary and you'll see this idea explored in the side-quest.

Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 15, 2010, 06:39:03 PM
For your 10th question, im2msart4u, the very original and neat idea of naming all of them Gelf came from LethalLaurie and me. Tolerance, I say. It shows how greatly different cultures vary and you'll see this idea explored in the side-quest.
Giving everyone the same name would be the most annoying thing ever.  Image if every human was named Bob in the game.
The story would be like this:
Bob and his family were thrown into prison, because General Bob and the leader of the Cult, Bob, lead a coup.  Bob was then rescued by his old friend Bob.  Bob and Bob then meet the archer Bob and they continue the jail break.  Bob, Bob, and Bob then run into more teamates, Bob and Bob, who resuced a wealthy man named Bob.  Bob and his new teammates then escape and flee to Bob's manor.  Bob agrees to supports the Resistance if Bob defeats the spirts in his cellar......
I hope you understand where I am going with this.  If not, I can continue?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 06:47:15 PM
Uhu, and in order to work around this ostensibly difficult obstacle, you have to use a little imagination, which, incidentally, LethalLaurie and I did. Otherwise it would be a needless complication.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 15, 2010, 07:01:34 PM
Uhu, and in order to work around this ostensibly difficult obstacle, you have to use a little imagination, which, incidentally, LethalLaurie and I did. Otherwise it would be a needless complication.
Doesn't it seem unimaginative to give every character the same name?  It would be more imaginative to think of new Wood-Folk names.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 07:03:37 PM
I actually like having all the Woods-Folk named Gelf, I think it would be rather funny actually
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 07:07:03 PM
Thanks, Zackirus.
No, it's not unimaginative, if you think globally, im2msart4u, for it takes thikning outside the box to go against convention. That's a conservative speaking in you. ;) You just wait and see when the mission gets released. It's not such an important aspect of the entire interaction, but can be quite illuminating and allows for comic relief as well.

Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 09:11:31 PM
I would put Gelf interactions with our species at the top. I a curious to find out what the other races think (if at all about the gelf). I wouldhten put history because I thnk it would be pretty funny (Gelf the Great, Gelf the Reaper)
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Ertxiem on March 16, 2010, 01:45:27 AM
Another way of dealing with different Gelfs is by using different formatting. It will not be very clear to us, foreign humans but it will be very clear to the Gelfs.
We may meet Gelf, son of Gelf and brother of Gelf and Gelf, nephew of Gelf. I know that there are a limited number of different formats that we may apply, but in the game there will also be a limited number of Gelfs that we'll meet.

Presentiment: At least delete your image in the above post. You're being annoying.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Presentiment on March 16, 2010, 08:45:55 PM
I didn't realize at first nobody understood my words were to support the idea of having a universal name.

Too bad this forum is overly democratic.

Having different formats of name would just look awkward, and it brings up the question of how many Gelfs exist, and how they differentiate each other through speech.

Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 17, 2010, 08:22:17 AM
I can assure you that they're quite capable of recognizing each other and differentiating between each other, as there are not that many of them around.

Still, have you folks got any more questions about Gelf culture, rather than just noting the fact that they are all called Gelf?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Zackirus on March 17, 2010, 11:36:49 AM
What do the Gelfs Think about Humans, Shadowlings, the Cult. Are the being persued by Cult (you never know). How do the Gelfs think about Religion?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Presentiment on March 17, 2010, 08:56:06 PM
I can assure you that they're quite capable of recognizing each other and differentiating between each other, as there are not that many of them around.

You can't assume that, because if there is a large group of Gelf, they'd never be able to verbally communicate.

If they were all separate, they would all have a different language/culture.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: CraigStern on March 17, 2010, 10:50:05 PM
Without weighing in on one side or the other: did you know that human beings are wired to be able to instantly recall facts about hundreds of people simply by seeing their faces (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090625133102.htm)? Biologists think this ability arose because early human settlements had around that number of people, and accordingly, that was how many people we needed to be able to keep tabs on at a time. It doesn't seem totally preposterous that the Folk of the Woods might have a similar capacity to get along in small settlements going primarily on facial recognition.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Presentiment on March 17, 2010, 11:17:12 PM
But how would they speak to each other?

The Gelfs seem relatively advanced, compared to early man.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 18, 2010, 11:35:29 AM
Thanks, Craig ;)
Presntiment: well, if this gets into the game, then you'll find out for yourself. ;)

I don't see the porblem of them being able to speak to each other: just what exctaly would prevent communication between them occuring?
After all, they are quite aware who is who, and forget not that, expanding on what Craig set, humans are well equipped to recgonise small differences in their own cultures- for instance, Eurpoeans are pretty good at telling each other apart (e.g. a Greek v Swede), but they'll have great trouble telling the difference, using face alone, between, say, Koreans and Chinese, and it's the same result vice versa. Hence, to outsiders Gelfs may look alike, but to themselves they're very different indeed.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 18, 2010, 12:32:23 PM
Thanks, Craig ;)
Presntiment: well, if this gets into the game, then you'll find out for yourself. ;)

I don't see the porblem of them being able to speak to each other: just what exctaly would prevent communication between them occuring?
After all, they are quite aware who is who, and forget not that, expanding on what Craig set, humans are well equipped to recgonise small differences in their own cultures- for instance, Eurpoeans are pretty good at telling each other apart (e.g. a Greek v Swede), but they'll have great trouble telling the difference, using face alone, between, say, Koreans and Chinese, and it's the same result vice versa. Hence, to outsiders Gelfs may look alike, but to themselves they're very different indeed.
How do they talk about fellow Wood-Folk when they all share the same name.  When you talk about a person, you don't see thier face.  When you yell "Hey Gelf!", doesn't everyone respond?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 18, 2010, 12:37:14 PM
Remember when you ventured a thought that Gelfs would have something like second names, which are different for each of them? Well, they'll refer to each by using a term that differentiates between them.
Their race is Gelf, that is also what they call each other, like a shared middle-name between each member of the species. (Think of this analogy: "corade Ivanov", quite a few of them there, but they could then further specify which of the Ivanov's is meant, and "comrade" part is more or less equivalent to the "Gelf" part: it is an overt symbol of being part of who they are.)
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 18, 2010, 02:20:54 PM
If the Wood-Folk teammate dies, will the pets continue to fight for the Hero?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 18, 2010, 04:06:56 PM
That is one very good question! I think the pets will stay, as Gelf asks them to help him help his friends. If Gelf goes, the pets will still try to fulfill his wish and help the team. (That part will become a bit more clear if the side-mission gets in- the link between Gelf and his pets is more explored there.)
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Presentiment on March 18, 2010, 04:18:50 PM
Thanks, Craig ;)
Presntiment: well, if this gets into the game, then you'll find out for yourself. ;)

I don't see the porblem of them being able to speak to each other: just what exctaly would prevent communication between them occuring?
After all, they are quite aware who is who, and forget not that, expanding on what Craig set, humans are well equipped to recgonise small differences in their own cultures- for instance, Eurpoeans are pretty good at telling each other apart (e.g. a Greek v Swede), but they'll have great trouble telling the difference, using face alone, between, say, Koreans and Chinese, and it's the same result vice versa. Hence, to outsiders Gelfs may look alike, but to themselves they're very different indeed.

So you're indicating its already planned out?

Please. The problem is obviously not distinguishing people, but making it clear who you're talking to, which is why I was wondering how they'd verbally communicate in a group.
Remember when you ventured a thought that Gelfs would have something like second names, which are different for each of them? Well, they'll refer to each by using a term that differentiates between them.
Their race is Gelf, that is also what they call each other, like a shared middle-name between each member of the species. (Think of this analogy: "corade Ivanov", quite a few of them there, but they could then further specify which of the Ivanov's is meant, and "comrade" part is more or less equivalent to the "Gelf" part: it is an overt symbol of being part of who they are.)

That's what I was thinking about earlier until you split it off.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 18, 2010, 04:25:11 PM
Those are two separate issues, both addressed above, as you clearly found out, since you quoted the answers.

Yes, this has been planned out for well over a year now, the mission is laid out, the dialogues have been written, the battles more or less in their final state, with very few things to add from us as contributors. At this stage it's pretty much up to Craig to decide whether he wants this added in or not. If you want to see the development, have a look at the collab thread between LethalLauire and I on the old forums, or here on the new ones. It took about six months of collabortaion to sort most things out.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 18, 2010, 04:28:29 PM
What would the Wood-Folk name a pet bird?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 18, 2010, 04:54:43 PM
That is an even better question: I was about to make a thread asking for suggestions, we haven't names the bird anything yet. So, all suggetions are welcome!
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 18, 2010, 04:58:28 PM
That is an even better question: I was about to make a thread asking for suggestions, we haven't names the bird anything yet. So, all suggetions are welcome!
Tweety or Woodstock?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Zhampir on March 18, 2010, 05:02:25 PM
what about Gelf-Pet? lol...
Quickwing, Dumbbird, Coocohead. Fleetfeet...
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: cyso on March 18, 2010, 05:17:59 PM
Maybe flapper (OK, it's terrible, but I'm not the world's most creative guy) flyer, or glider.
Flappy, maybe?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Presentiment on March 18, 2010, 05:20:20 PM
How about bird?

That's a fine name, Lord Byrons of this forum.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on March 18, 2010, 05:30:59 PM
Tweety: never!

Woodstock, I hear you say? Hmm, inetersting reference.

Anything along the lines how the Tig was formed? (Plant => Sterigma => Tig)
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Ertxiem on March 20, 2010, 08:30:45 PM
Or perhaps the pet name was related to the way Gelf found it or related to the pet's characteristics (or temperament).

Regarding the Gelfs naming calling each other Gelf, remember that "Gelf" is what Duvalier hears. Meaning that, to him, all he hears is Gelf, but to the Gelfs, they can hear the slight differences in each "Gelf" to tell them apart. It would be more or less like the difference between the words "not" and "knot", or "see" and "sea", hard to tell apart by non native English speakers.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Presentiment on March 20, 2010, 09:42:23 PM
Your examples are used in different circumstances. A universal name is not. A more accurate analogy would be the four tones in Chinese, but you can only nuance a word so much...
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on March 21, 2010, 10:29:23 AM
Regarding the Gelfs naming calling each other Gelf, remember that "Gelf" is what Duvalier hears. Meaning that, to him, all he hears is Gelf, but to the Gelfs, they can hear the slight differences in each "Gelf" to tell them apart. It would be more or less like the difference between the words "not" and "knot", or "see" and "sea", hard to tell apart by non native English speakers.
"Knot" and "not" sound the exact same and so does "sea" and "see".  When the words are spoken alone, one can only guess the meaning.  You only know they have a different meaning is when the words are used in a sentence.  I don't see how a name applies?  Back in 7th grade, when I said hi to "Katy/Katie", all three Katys though I was talking to them(I don't know why anyone put three Katys in the same english class).
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: SmartyPants on April 03, 2010, 07:07:13 PM
How do the Wood-Folk get the bugs to listen to them?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on June 24, 2010, 05:30:16 PM
How do the Wood-Folk get the bugs to listen to them?
If the side-mission gets in the game, there it will be explained ;)
But if you do wish for a hint, then let's just say that
Spoiler
Wood-folk are also Psy creatures, albeit not very Gifted ones
.

Going back to the 3rd creature to be summoned by Gelf (the bird), what name do you think should it have? Going by the analogy of how Sterigma became Tig for the plant and was derived from a real name (thanks to Ertxiem here), why not try to go for a real bird name (be it in latin or common name, and then try to do what Craig did to Sterigma)? Any suggestions, folks?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Bromtaghon on June 24, 2010, 10:35:58 PM
Sterigma --> Tig
Cardinal --> Ain?

Bad idea.
If you say Sterigma really fast you can kind of get Tig...
If you say Cardinal really fast you get...
Carna?
Canal?
Cardil?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: Dorgon 5000 on June 25, 2010, 02:53:27 AM
What about Featheregg? That sounds pretty cool, doesn´t it?
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: KZ on June 27, 2010, 02:00:37 PM
Mmm, Dorgon, I don't think Featheregg is at all in style with the rest of the names in the entire game series...

Methinks you're onto something, Bromtaghon- why not try playing aorund with names like eagle, hawk, etc?  Not sure if "Eag" sounds good... but it is similar to Tig!
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: algebra15 on July 08, 2010, 05:57:57 PM
Bird => Galliformes => Alf

The Galliformes order contains such birds as the Rock Ptarmgan, or "snow chicken."

 :)
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: bugfartboy on January 19, 2011, 08:05:39 PM
Alright. I know that this thread hasn't been posted in for months but how about "Pig" for the birdie name? Pidgeon. Pig.
Title: Re: More about Wood-Folk!
Post by: SmartyPants on January 19, 2011, 09:34:02 PM
Alright. I know that this thread hasn't been posted in for months but
Usually, when a topic hasn't been posted in months, you only reopen the topic when new relevent information appears.

Since Craig has only left room for Rajav on the Character List, it can easily be concluded that he will not be making a Wood-Folk character.
That means this topic is dead.
Title: Re: More about Gelf!
Post by: ArtDrake on January 22, 2011, 04:10:21 PM
Or at least not an in-battle character. Folk-of-the-Woods may still show up in a sidequest, or even like the Marid, supplying soldiers.