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Games => TSoG => TSoG Wish List => Topic started by: KZ on February 05, 2010, 06:29:41 PM

Title: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on February 05, 2010, 06:29:41 PM
Carrying on from this (http://sinisterdesign.freepowerboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1557) thread, discuss any interesting ideas for attacks which can be given to TSoG teammates. Some of the attacks have been implemented in the game already, like Juxtapose, so fear not that your ideas will be voiced in vain!

Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Steelfist on February 07, 2010, 11:24:01 AM
I may have said this before, but...

Elemental scyth

The same move as slash, essentially, but with an element, like Shadow scyth (Same range as slash, but a shadow move) or light scyth (Same range as slash, but a light move)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on February 07, 2010, 01:23:27 PM
"scythe" you mean?

I think there was speculation about mixing up elements- like the Twilight Blast (Shadow+Light) and mixing up an elemental attack with melee. I do recollect how an idea of having "elemental arrows" ostensibly was liked by CraigStern, but that was about one-and-a-half years ago.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: hellboy222 on February 08, 2010, 10:59:46 PM
yeah but it seems that if the range was to far it would make the game less challenging because your hero is now ranged, but that might just be me.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on February 09, 2010, 11:17:15 AM
I am curious to whether CraigStern, as mentioned about a year ago, has decided to which teammate give the Fury attack? Methinks it could be quiting for the Spearman (a future teammate mentioned by CraigStern some time ago), as it's used by Helena in TRPG2 and it would seem only fitting if a melee fighter could use it. I also wonder if Recover will make an appaearance in TSoG?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on February 10, 2010, 06:37:29 PM
Quote
I may have said this before, but...

Elemental scyth

The same move as slash, essentially, but with an element, like Shadow scyth (Same range as slash, but a shadow move) or light scyth (Same range as slash, but a light move)
Love it. I always thought it would make sense to sort of combine elemental and physical attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Kaseke on February 12, 2010, 01:26:36 PM
What about giving Seth a buff which changes the element of the normal attack. Only for one turn not to make it too easy to use it. The area could be something like this:

OOO
XSX
XXX
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on February 13, 2010, 07:44:02 AM
Personally, I am postively opposed to the idea of said "buffs" and the likes, as it unpleasantly reminds me of the Sonny battleengine. I'd rather see TSoG keep the neat style of attacks and accent on the tactical side of things- a bit like in StarCraft, in a way- you do have units with special abilities, but you can't just blindly use them all over the place, as you have to know where to strike to make it hurt.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on February 13, 2010, 09:55:14 AM
I thought of a Static Shield would be useful for Psy Points.

Boost: Luca doesn't just supply Psy Points anymore. She now helps teammates focus to the point where they can store even more PsP.
Element: Mental
Range: 1 Space
Cost: Psy Power + Boost Level
Amount Transferred: (Psy Power + Boost Level)/2
Status Effects: Target's max PsP increases


An alternative for Boost could be the ability to increase a target's Psy Power. This could increase the damage of attacks, the potency of shields, and the amount of stored PsP. This form of Boost is similar to Fury.

Boost:
Range: 1 space
Cost: 6
Status Effect: Target's Psy Power increases by 1
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on February 13, 2010, 11:08:36 AM
Well, I guess in order for people not to get confused, we can call the second attack "Psy Fury" for now, just to separate the two.
I think Boost in conjunction with Static Shield would be too powerful a combination (but the idea is still good), since then Luca can easily do a Boost+Transfer combo and the Psy units will have, effectively, limitless PsP.

About "Psy Fury", I honestly am not sure: I haven't used much Fury myself, as it effectively takes out one offensive turn from a teammate, and those 2-3 extra damage points, although usually play a crucial role, don't outweight the turn lost.

If I was to choose between the two, I'd go for Boost as an attack to add.

What of adding Feedback to Set? Or the "Push" attack (effectively forcing an emeny off a square and dealing some nominal damage to them by the action)?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on February 13, 2010, 09:49:35 PM
Giving Set feedback, I believe, is a terrible idea, because it harms the enemy. Sets whole thing is avoiding damage to everyone.

However Set, I think, should have more combat friendly attacks such as Psy Drain, an attack that damages the amount of Psp an enemy has (or even absorbs their psp, as in Psy Feedback)

Also I think Set should be able to paralyze his enemies. This would be a high charge power and Set would need massive stats to obtain it, simply because he would force a shield around the contours of the enemy's body suspending movement.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: John Flame on February 14, 2010, 04:25:57 AM
This idea goes back to Trpg 2.Remember Nelis(Shadowling Queen i think)had the attacks Holy Blast and Fire Gate!
Supose my hero is fire based!And reaches high level would be cool if it learned Fire Gate!But not at levels like 20.Then the playears would be independent.By high level i mean 50!Same with light based hero!
And here are some supreme Ice and Dark attacks:

Artic Wind
Range:All battlefield
Damage:Grows with use!Base:20
Psy points to use:50

Dark Void:
Range1-5 Tiles away from hero!
Damage:20
Psy points to use:50!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Kaseke on February 14, 2010, 05:28:57 AM
50 psy points? that's too much methinks. Also I don't like the big area of those attacks. Tho, it takes alot of psy points, if enought psy points you could kill the whole map with only 2 attacks. also, if there were all of your units on the battlefield, they could kill your enemies very easily after that attack. With friendly fire it'd make the game just too easy. This is only my opinion tho.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on February 14, 2010, 10:37:57 AM
About "Psy Fury", I honestly am not sure: I haven't used much Fury myself, as it effectively takes out one offensive turn from a teammate, and those 2-3 extra damage points, although usually play a crucial role, don't outweight the turn lost.
This is a support attack.  The Psy Fury would be used the same way elemental shields are used.  Helena's Fury increased her own Strength which only increased her attack power.  Luca's Psy Fury would increase a teamate's Psy Power which will increase the teammate's attack power and the stored PsP.

Giving Set feedback, I believe, is a terrible idea, because it harms the enemy. Sets whole thing is avoiding damage to everyone.

However Set, I think, should have more combat friendly attacks such as Psy Drain, an attack that damages the amount of Psp an enemy has (or even absorbs their psp, as in Psy Feedback)
I agree, that Set shouldn't use offensive attacks like feedback.

The enemes don't have any stored PsP, so a character cant really drain their PsP.

Artic Wind
Range:All battlefield
Damage:Grows with use!Base:20
Psy points to use:50

Dark Void:
Range1-5 Tiles away from hero!
Damage:20
Psy points to use:50!
These type of attacks should be reserved for bosses.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on February 14, 2010, 12:58:57 PM
Fair enough, though it is rather annoying to see a completely defensive unit that cannot tip the balance of battle in your favour, just because he lacks a weak attack (like Anya or Festus could be used in TRPG2 when the battle was really going down the wire).

Agree, the huge attacks should be for bosses only, and also, if the Hero is that strong already, any attack he uses will be effectively a one-hit-kill. And he can learn araea attacks, so if the enemy is tightly packed, that spells big trouble.


There was mention, early on in TPA2 development, of assassins having poison attacks. Methinks having a stab-style attack that uses Desert Scorpion poison to weaken a tough enemy, say a boss, would be nice to have and would provide variety to Arman's arsenal, since at the moment he has, effectively, two attack that area exactly the same (Stab, Mega Stab). Surely in a long and difficult battle weakening the boss' attack, if it is melee, could be crucial?  And it will expand the set of teammates who have status-affecting attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on February 14, 2010, 11:40:04 PM
I'd like to see a sort of delayed attack feature installed, such as a bomb, thrown down one turn, detonated 2-3turns later, damaging all characters in an omnidirectional pattern. Though no technological people exist that could imaginatively create a bomb it could be some sort of pyrokinesis technique.

I also thought the other general Greek elements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Element) should be included, such as wind and earth. Which takes me back to the days of Quest 64 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_64). Oh how I loved tearing apart my enemies far away with the wind cutters, squashing them with giant boulders, and of course, bashing them over the head with my supercharged staff.^^

Of course each of those element would have their own unique attacks...
Such as boulder toss (http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp10/murrowsghost/questletsplay/chapter3/Quest64Usnap0021.jpg), or the large cutter... just a thought though...
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Kaseke on February 15, 2010, 07:52:11 AM
Methinks having a stab-style attack that uses Desert Scorpion poison to weaken a tough enemy, say a boss, would be nice to have and would provide variety to Arman's arsenal, since at the moment he has, effectively, two attack that area exactly the same (Stab, Mega Stab). Surely in a long and difficult battle weakening the boss' attack, if it is melee, could be crucial?  And it will expand the set of teammates who have status-affecting attacks.

Desert scorpion's poison, huh? That'd support mine and crypt's side mission, which had this idea.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Frosty on February 15, 2010, 02:47:59 PM
I think a good new attack for Griffin would be wound, which is sorta like sap, only its a physical attack. I also think Arman should learn to throw his knife like Niven does with Knife Fling.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on February 16, 2010, 09:32:13 AM
I'd like to see a sort of delayed attack feature installed, such as a bomb, thrown down one turn, detonated 2-3turns later, damaging all characters in an omnidirectional pattern. Though no technological people exist that could imaginatively create a bomb it could be some sort of pyrokinesis technique.

I also thought the other general Greek elements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Element) should be included, such as wind and earth. Which takes me back to the days of Quest 64 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_64). Oh how I loved tearing apart my enemies far away with the wind cutters, squashing them with giant boulders, and of course, bashing them over the head with my supercharged staff.^^

Not convinced, to be honest. The whole intrdoucing new elements thing was tried several times, but the argument is the same as with introducing elves, dragons and dwarves: CraigStern has created his own unique universe that contains new creations as well as original takes on the common folklore. The 4 elements chosen seem to be a pretty good basis set for starting things off, plus all the attacks and events are centred around the 4 elements. If you played TPA2, there is a boss who uses Sand Storm, which is a Physical attack 8though Psy generated) and, in essence, combines Wind and Earth. So, I think that angle is already covered to a degree.

As for the delayed attack feature: it is certainly an interesting thought, but from having tried out numerous battles in the TRPG engine, I rarely see a situation where a delay of 2 or 3 turns can really have the desired impact due to the sheer dynamics of the battle and unit mobility (it might be useful in case of a bottle-neck or stalemate, where exhaustion tactics are common use, but then it might lead to un-predictable consequences, which some might like...).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: CraigStern on February 18, 2010, 10:27:21 PM
I'm adding in four new elemental attacks for the next update. They're the standard TRPG elements, though. Earth and Wind, I think, fit pretty neatly into the Physical category in TRPG, since all you're really doing is battering the target. (Hence, why Sand Storm and Sand Blast are treated like physical damage.)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on February 19, 2010, 09:01:45 AM
I'm adding in four new elemental attacks for the next update. They're the standard TRPG elements, though.

Neat! That's a nice refreshing addition, I'll go and have a look, so if I can play through TSoG and find what they are.
Title: new atacks
Post by: torugo on February 21, 2010, 05:03:39 PM
rahel should be able so use a sacred arrow and use other elements like fire ice thunder dark light
griffin could be given the ability to throw his sword and have it come back to him and the agression to boost his strength
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on February 21, 2010, 10:13:14 PM
I think that the hero, (or another psy adept) should be able to enchant a non psy character's weapons with an element.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Barzul on February 22, 2010, 03:30:31 PM
I had an idea for a new attack for Rahel, well technically Tembhi but you get the idea ;).

Anways, it is called Curving Shot. The bowman uses psy energy to fire and push two arrows in different directions.
B= Bowman O= Target X= Space

XOXXXOX         XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX   or   XOXXXOX
XXXBXXX         XXXBXXX
XXXXXXX         XXXXXXX
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on February 22, 2010, 03:48:19 PM
I had an idea for a new attack for Rahel, well technically Tembhi but you get the idea ;).

Anways, it is called Curving Shot. The bowman uses psy energy to fire and push two arrows in different directions.
B= Bowman O= Target X= Space

XOXXXOX         XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX   or   XOXXXOX
XXXBXXX         XXXBXXX
XXXXXXX         XXXXXXX

The one to the right has too great of a range.

Based on the position of the second attack, Rahel can hit her targert with split shot.
XXXXXXX         XXXXXXX
XOXXXXX   or   XXXXXOX
XXXBXXX         XXXBXXX
XOXXXXX         XXXXXOX
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Frosty on February 22, 2010, 05:54:50 PM
But it would allow her to hit that target without changing her facing, which is an impotant thing in telepath games.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Kaseke on February 23, 2010, 04:28:07 AM
I think that rahel should be able to set her arrows on fire.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on February 23, 2010, 02:01:03 PM
I think Spearmen, Swordsmen, Bowmen, and Assassins should have physical attacks only.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Frosty on February 23, 2010, 06:22:03 PM
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, just keep the attacks to the class.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on February 25, 2010, 09:58:50 AM
Indeed, I'd rather also see the attacks being kept to the class.

Btw, here is an idea that was extesnively discussed, and at one point it seemed Craig has agreed to implement it: for Malis to be a well-rounded Shadowling Assassin, equip her with Feedback as well, since this is one of the attacks that Darkling can learn too, and he was an assassin. Otehrwise, although fast, Malis would be difficult to use in later stages of the game, whilst Feedback will make her more of a stand-alone, but not tank-type unit (and be able to finish off difficult enemies without getting killed herself).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 08, 2010, 08:15:02 PM
How about a piercing shot? like Rahel shoots and arrow that has a range of 2-3, damaging both the 2nd and 3rd positions. A range of 3-4 could be an alternative.

OXO
OXO
OOO
ORO
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 09, 2010, 03:50:11 PM
How about a piercing shot? like Rahel shoots and arrow that has a range of 2-3, damaging both the 2nd and 3rd positions. A range of 3-4 could be an alternative.

OXO
OXO
OOO
ORO
I think that attack should be saved for the spearman class.

Piercing Throw- A powerful throw of a spear can stab through an enemy and hit the square behind your target.
Range: 2-3 squares
Damage: (1/2)Strength + (1/2)Psy Power + 2 + Piercing Throw Level
Cost: 9 PsP

000
0X0
0X0
000
0S0

0=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: hellboy222 on March 10, 2010, 12:27:33 PM
I think a spear is more realistic/believable than a bolt or arrow.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 10, 2010, 01:58:41 PM
How about an attack that relies one the light element to launch an arrow near the speed of light that penetrates through enemies? This would be a high cost, and hard to learn attack, of course.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 10, 2010, 02:17:55 PM
Assassins, bowmen, swordsmen, and spearmen should have only physical attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 10, 2010, 02:33:25 PM
it still is a physical attack, just an extremely fast one.
perhaps a psy force field is placed at the end of the arrow, super condensed, and then (rather quickly) super-expanding in a spot precisely at the end of the arrow (and nowhere else) propelling the arrow at amazing speeds, much like all the power in an atom bomb is focused on the arrow.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 10, 2010, 02:38:58 PM
I will rephrase may statement:
Assassins, bowmen, swordsmen, and spearmen shouldn't use the four elements.  The physical classes should use telekiness to increase or compliment their physical skills.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 10, 2010, 02:44:09 PM
How about an attack that relies one the light element to launch an arrow near the speed of light that penetrates through enemies? This would be a high cost, and hard to learn attack, of course.

an arrowgoing at speed of light, that breaks g forces of the scale and the arrow would propably break, even if it didn't after the g forces it would turn into pure energy which doesn't seem like anything possible.

It seems like the spear could do that because of the weight of the spear

I thought of an attack as well. What about an attack that would trade your health for psp points and have an opposite attack that trades psp for health. It would a point change for example:

Trade (PsP)

Using their mental strength, the user of this move trades their own phyiscal health to relieve mental stress and tiredness.

Range: Self
Effect: Trades Health for PsP (at the same amount as defence level)
Cost: 0
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 10, 2010, 02:47:10 PM
In my revised post I did not mention an element, I simply stated a psychic force was responsible for the manipulation of the arrow's speed. This could even be a telepathic force.

For instance, One force pushes left and another telepathic force pushes right, the two opposing each other. Both forces accumulating in Newtons, trying to surpass the other, until the caster relinquishes one, sending the arrow flying at super quick, super slick speeds. (and a possible joke for this could be, "look it's gone plaid!" from the movie Spaceballs.)

1. I didn't mean at the speed of light (because that's quite impossible).
2. if all particles are accelerated at the same time at the same rate the arrow, theoretically, would not break.

nvm I'm rejecting this idea now, because if Rahel can have such an effective telepathic attack with little or no psychic education, then surely the main should be able to produce a much more powerful version that would obliterate everything, and that, simply, is too much even for me.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: hellboy222 on March 10, 2010, 03:12:47 PM
what about an aura attack like ice shroud/aura and it increases the effectiveness of ice element attacks and switch ice with fire,darkness and light to increase each elements effectiveness respectively?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 11, 2010, 04:17:03 PM
I'm still trying to improve Rahel's abilities.
how about:
Critical Hit (or Snipe, Sniper Shot, Critical Shot, etc)
Using telepathy Rahel is able to hit critical components of her enemies dealing (for sake of example) twice the damage.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on March 11, 2010, 05:16:45 PM
A sniper shot was proposed on the old forums. I agree that's a good one for Rahel.
It was even proposed that, if that isn't too hard to implement, one could choose the square at which Rahel will aim (in an area of, say, range 5).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 11, 2010, 05:27:22 PM
A sniper shot was proposed on the old forums. I agree that's a good one for Rahel.
It was even proposed that, if that isn't too hard to implement, one could choose the square at which Rahel will aim (in an area of, say, range 5).
A range of 4 would be more appropriate
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 12, 2010, 01:32:17 AM
Choosing the range... shouldn't be that hard to create. just another sub having the user click on a square (or pressing a number key for the range, but this would likely be hard unless, where the yellow boxes appear a number also appears in them, So with the current system if this was the first attack the use would press 1 1 2 to select the first attack with the 2nd range option) and once created it'd combine the bow 1 and bow 2, shadowport 1 and 2, and split shot 1 and 2. Giving potential for even more attacks as more slots would open.
REM me likes this idea

If that would be implemented then I have a whole new idea for Split shot. Remove it entirely and add in Multi-Shot.
In Multi-Shot the user would select 2 or 3 places for the arrows to hit (even selecting the same spot multiple times) for instance.
OOOOOOO
OOXXXOO
OXXXXXO
OOOOOOO
OOOROOO
OOOOOOO

With O meaning unavailable, X being a possible shot, and R being Rahel
As multishot's level increases (and Rahel's psy power is increased) Even more shots could be added, allowing for a barrage of arrows.

Also for the Critical Shot, Sniper Shot, whatever-you-want-to-call-it (I don't have a particular liking for any of those names, Sniper Shot sounding silly while Critical Shot sounds too unoriginal) the multiplier for damage could increase with leveling, the sniper shot's damage, I believe, should be the regular shot's base damage multiplied by the bonus. This would encourage people to use the base bow attack as it would increase the effectiveness of the shot a lot more than leveling the sniping itself.

I just thought of a great name for that shot, the Precise Shot, or simply a temp boost, Precision which adds a small percentage multiplier (like Base Dmg * (1 + n) where n= .10 * Precision's level with a max level of 10 [I didn't make these numbers for balancing, just popped in my head, the 1 in 1 + n is to not diminish the attack's strength) but boosts have been discredited, so I don't think Precision will be likely, but if the critical hit is included I strongly suggest Precise Shot as the name.

If both Precise Shot and Multi Shot are implemented I think multi shot should have a higher charge than Precise shot. This is because Precise shot's strength could easily be duplicated, and likely vastly improved by Multi shot. Precise Shot's percentage of increase when compared to Precision's supposed increase should be much larger as Precision's percentage to apply to Multi Shot (if implemented) doubling to even tripling the effect. Precise shot should Probably start at 200% power and increase by 25% per level, while Precision's power should be maybe 110% of the attack.

Precise Shot damage = Base Bow damage * (2 + n)
n= .25 * Precise Shot level

For the Arbalest (noun :a powerful medieval crossbow with a steel bow, used to shoot stones, metal balls, arrows, etc.) I'm not too keen on the steel bolts idea, but how about a modified crossbow that shoots 3 (or 5, as the 5shot is more popular, but probably not as this might cover too much terrain)?

OOOXOOO
OOXOXOO
OXOOOXO
OOOOOOO
OOOAOOO
OOOOOOO
     
OOOOOOO
OOOXOOO
OOXOXOO
OOOOOOO
OOOAOOO
OOOOOOO
where A is where the Arbalest stands

I'm not sure I like this idea either, though, but the name is nice and would still fit with the steel launching (yes I'm going to suggest the name in the new enemies forum, but I'm simply naming it here so it's easier to recognize since we have several names floating around.

All though, removal of the split shots entirely I think would be a bad idea. Keep them in at the same cost, with Multi-Shot costing a bit more. By the way, I'm going to post the ideas on the selecting attack range in another topic because it is not really a new attack but a modification of current attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Presentiment on March 13, 2010, 05:34:14 PM
How about an attack that relies one the light element to launch an arrow near the speed of light that penetrates through enemies? This would be a high cost, and hard to learn attack, of course.

an arrowgoing at speed of light, that breaks g forces of the scale and the arrow would propably break, even if it didn't after the g forces it would turn into pure energy which doesn't seem like anything possible.

It seems like the spear could do that because of the weight of the spear

I thought of an attack as well. What about an attack that would trade your health for psp points and have an opposite attack that trades psp for health. It would a point change for example:

Trade (PsP)

Using their mental strength, the user of this move trades their own phyiscal health to relieve mental stress and tiredness.

Range: Self
Effect: Trades Health for PsP (at the same amount as defence level)
Cost: 0


That's one of the good ideas, but how would it be leveled? That problem might get a little tricky.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: hellboy222 on March 15, 2010, 08:08:08 AM
I don't like those attacks well the psp to health because you would never run out of health but the health to psp is okay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 09:34:29 AM
I don't know if the arbalest should have the multi-shot attack. I think it makes it too powerful.


I think spear men need more attacks. Maybe a longer ranged impale, or a "critical strike"?
Critical strike would be a more powerful version of melee, but would cost more.
The enemy uses psy power to strike accelerate their spear (not throw it) into the enemy.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 09:41:27 AM
Spearmen alreadyhave imaple (Psy Arena 2) it up to craig to add in anothr attack for them
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 09:44:31 AM
Spearmen only have three attacks. That might be okay for enemies, but I think your future teammate should have more attacks. Normal archers only have one or two attacks, but Rahel has four. Normal spearmen have only three attacks, but your future teammate will probably have more.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 09:48:42 AM
Maybe instead of adding a longer ranges attack maybe the spearmen grabs his spear like a staff and jabs at his sides

Spear Jab
Cost: 6
Range: 1

OOOOO
OXSXO
OOOOO

X= space effected S= Spearmen O= Spaces Unaffected

what do you think
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 09:57:17 AM
That would be nice. As of right now, spearmen can only attack enemies on a few squares.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on March 15, 2010, 11:38:06 AM
I assume that in the Spear Jab, the Spearman is facing north (up).
I like that idea (and I remember something similar being discussed in the old forums).

Another attack talked about in the old forums was a diagonal attack (2 diagonals possible):
XO
OS
S - Spearman facing north
X - Affected space
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 12:51:35 PM
Indeed, a similar idea was mentioned on the old forums. I think the diagonal one can be rather useful, especially in bottle-neck situations, and simply areas where there is little space. This will make a unit unique, since all other units go horizontal/vertical, rather than diagonal with their one-tile attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 15, 2010, 12:54:18 PM
No, Rahel accomplishes the same thing with Split shot, but this would be a great way to augment her abilities. Would this attack be stoppable by terrain? The spaces the rocks take up leave room for a diagonal attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 12:59:52 PM
Split shot takes 2 or 3 tiles, not one, and it is a ranged attack, not melee.
I was thinking about the issue of this being a stoppable attack, and I think that the best way would be "no": an obstacle in front of a spearman shouldn't really prevent him from attacking an enemy on a free adjacent tile via a tile that's also, most likely, obstacle free.

OOO
EXO
OSO

O=empty
X=obstacle
E=enemy
S=spearman
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 01:02:23 PM
I agree with KZ. Its not as if the spearman lunges forward, stabs the enemy to the side, and jumps back. All he does is attack in a diagonal line. Would there be an attack for both directions, or would you be able to chose which side you attack?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 01:05:05 PM
I think this attack can take up two attack spots, so that the player can choose which side to attack (I can see how Niven might be only able to throw the knife in one direction, using his one hand only, but I find it absolutely ridiculous that a spearman can do a diagonal jab only in one direction).
Oh yeah, let's have "Diagonal Jab" as the working name for this attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 15, 2010, 01:14:08 PM
Piercing Throw- A powerful throw of a spear can stab through an enemy and hit the square behind your target.
Range: 2-3 squares
Damage: (1/2)Strength + (1/2)Psy Power + 2 + Piercing Throw Level
Cost: 9 PsP

000
0X0
0X0
000
0S0

0=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman

I already suggested a 4th attack for a spearman.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 15, 2010, 01:17:13 PM
As in TSoG you can have up to 8 attacks, I don't see any reason to not include the Diagonal Jab and the Piercing Throw a long with any other attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 01:23:31 PM
We have three attacks so far for the spearmen:

Piercing Throw: A powerful throw of a spear can stab through an enemy and hit the square behind your target.
Range: 2-3 squares
Damage: (1/2)Strength + (1/2)Psy Power + 2 + Piercing Throw Level
Cost: 9 PsP

000
0X0
0X0
000
0S0

0=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman

Spear Jab: The Spearmen grips his spear like a staff and jabs it to the sides on him
Cost: 6
Range: 1

OOOOO
OXSXO
OOOOO

X= space effected S= Spearmen O= Spaces Unaffected

Diagonal thow
Cost: 4
Range 1

OXOXO
OOSOO
OOOOO

O=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman

Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 01:24:35 PM
Well, Rahel seems to have received quite a few suggestions, and she has more than 4 attacks.
The spearmen seems limited somehow. Maybe it's because they can only target a few spaces. I think diagonal jab would be a good attack for them.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on March 15, 2010, 01:28:51 PM
Remark: A diagonal throw only attacks one of the diagonals.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 15, 2010, 01:30:13 PM
Spear Jab: The Spearmen grips his spear like a staff and jabs it to the sides on him
Cost: 6
Range: 1

OOOOO
OXSXO
OOOOO

X= space effected S= Spearmen O= Spaces Unaffected

Diagonal thow
Cost: 4
Range 1

OXOXO
OOSOO
OOOOO

O=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman
How do you hit two targets at once with one spear?
Diagonal throw may work, but Jab is impossible to do with a spear.  To move a long pole quickly to the side and then stab would be very difficult.  That is why phalanxs are vulnerable to attacks from the side.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 01:30:58 PM
The attack would allow you to choose which diagonal to attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 15, 2010, 01:46:07 PM
simple, diagonal jab 1 and diagonal jab 2, or it could utilize and idea I proposed earlier (that I'm pretty sure was readily discarded)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 02:02:02 PM
Exactly as Zhampir said- see the other page for me suggesting that. There will be two attacks that are mirror images of each other. Also note that the Spearman won't attack to the side- which is, indeed, difficult, but would rather attack slightly off-centre, and that is more than possible, and for a good Spearman something that should be quite doable as well.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 02:43:48 PM
The jabs could be called left jab and right jab instead of jab 1 and jab 2.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 15, 2010, 02:46:29 PM
I think left and right would indicate directly left or directly right jabs. Perhaps Left Diagonal Jab and Right Diagonal Jab, though those names seem... a bit lengthy for my tastes.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 02:48:59 PM
The little yellow outline should show which square the attack hits, the left or right is just so the attack would have a name other than 1 or 2.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 02:49:52 PM
Diagonal Jab R and L would probably be best, the "Left Diagonal Jab" sounds too technical to me.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on March 15, 2010, 02:55:04 PM
Perhaps the names could be just Jab left and Jab right. The yellow squares would explain the rest. ;)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 03:01:45 PM
Heh, that is probably the simplest and best form.


Also, just as a general reminder, something that Craig said he'll look into:  Malis to get a 5th attack, the Feedback!
Essentially, to make her a stand-alone unit and more useful during latter stages of the game, have her equipped with all the attacks Darkling could've had. After all, she seems to be the quick, Darkling-like type, rather than the slower, more Psy Fighterish Shadowboxer type.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 15, 2010, 03:09:35 PM
I agree with the dead cow with two small Mandelbrot sets for the naming of the attacks  :P
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 04:04:56 PM
Although you get Jab Right for upgrading your Defence first to 10 compared to Jab Left which you get for upgrading your Attack to 12
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 04:07:08 PM
You reckon the attacks should be given at a different power range?
I disagre, as I think it requires skill, rather than power, to direct the attack diagonally, so if the person learsn how to do it in one direction, they can as easily learn how to do it in another. Though I can see how from practical position that would be good- to allow the player to develop the teammate and truly appreciate the mirror attack if it becomes learnable at a later stage!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 04:09:38 PM
How about once you learn the attacks at Psy power 10 you can choos which dirceon to learn it in then 2 levels later yo learn th mirror
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 04:14:47 PM
That might be a little harder to impletment. And come to think of it, there is that argument that some things are easier done in one direction, than in another. (Think tennis, for instance- backhand,forehand, or writing with left or right hand.) I definitley think that players would appreciate the mirror much more if it became available a tad later. A 2 level difference seems good. I would certainly put it before Impale, so that the attacks come as number 3 and 4, and not 4 and 5 (otherwise it will be a pain to click and select).

Although, there is the point about the player simply rotating the Spearman to hit the other side- but that could expose the Spearman to enemy backstab attacks. Thus, I think it is worth having a pair of mirror attacks, and not just one.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 07:22:54 PM
I prefer left jab and right jab over jab left and jab right, but it's probably personal preference and doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 07:26:33 PM
I agree that this is more of a small point issue, though I also prefer right and left jabs, then the reverse. Rightly, so do we have universal agreement on an extra attack for a Spearman so that it can be suggested to Craig, as being a formulated teammate attack?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 07:29:03 PM
I would like an extra attack for the spearmen so I am in
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 07:30:06 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 15, 2010, 07:40:23 PM
I agree that this is more of a small point issue, though I also prefer right and left jabs, then the reverse. Rightly, so do we have universal agreement on an extra attack for a Spearman so that it can be suggested to Craig, as being a formulated teammate attack?
For me, only the diagonal attacks.  The attacks to the direct right or direct left wouldn't work.
I think the attacks need low PsP.  Like spin saw only costed 1PsP.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 07:44:33 PM
I agree that this is more of a small point issue, though I also prefer right and left jabs, then the reverse. Rightly, so do we have universal agreement on an extra attack for a Spearman so that it can be suggested to Craig, as being a formulated teammate attack?
For me, only the diagonal attacks.  The attacks to the direct right or direct left wouldn't work.
I think the attacks need low PsP.  Like spin saw only costed 1PsP.

Why do you think that the attacks to the side could not work? If the spearmen held held spear like a staff and jabbed it at one of his sides and spun the spear so it would hit the other person, i could work.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 15, 2010, 07:45:44 PM
if the spear was dual bladed it could very easily work.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 15, 2010, 07:47:12 PM
I don't think most spears are dual bladed, but I'll consider it. I definitely support the diagonal attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 15, 2010, 07:49:58 PM
I agree that this is more of a small point issue, though I also prefer right and left jabs, then the reverse. Rightly, so do we have universal agreement on an extra attack for a Spearman so that it can be suggested to Craig, as being a formulated teammate attack?
For me, only the diagonal attacks.  The attacks to the direct right or direct left wouldn't work.
I think the attacks need low PsP.  Like spin saw only costed 1PsP.

Why do you think that the attacks to the side could not work? If the spearmen held held spear like a staff and jabbed it at one of his sides and spun the spear so it would hit the other person, i could work.
To move a long pole quickly to the side and then stab would be very difficult.  That is why phalanxs are vulnerable to attacks from the side.

if the spear was dual bladed it could very easily work.
I haven't seen a dual bladed spear in any of the games.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 07:51:51 PM
I agree that this is more of a small point issue, though I also prefer right and left jabs, then the reverse. Rightly, so do we have universal agreement on an extra attack for a Spearman so that it can be suggested to Craig, as being a formulated teammate attack?
For me, only the diagonal attacks.  The attacks to the direct right or direct left wouldn't work.
I think the attacks need low PsP.  Like spin saw only costed 1PsP.

Why do you think that the attacks to the side could not work? If the spearmen held held spear like a staff and jabbed it at one of his sides and spun the spear so it would hit the other person, i could work.
To move a long pole quickly to the side and then stab would be very difficult.  That is why phalanxs are vulnerable to attacks from the side.

The Spearman coud use his Psy abilities to turn it that quickly
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 15, 2010, 07:54:17 PM
The proposed attack is supposed to be diagonal, im2msart4u, not to the side, so worry not about that.
Seeing how 6 users present and past have agreed to the attack, I have added it to formulated.
The only question remains is the Psy cost.
How about 2 or 3? It should be small and to the point: I see this attack like the Backhander, to be used relatively often and not requiring that much Psy power.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 15, 2010, 08:32:01 PM
Piercing Throw- A powerful throw of a spear can stab through an enemy and hit the square behind your target.
Range: 2-3 squares
Damage: (1/2)Strength + (1/2)Psy Power + 2 + Piercing Throw Level
Cost: 9 PsP

000
0X0
0X0
000
0S0

0=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman

I think everyone agrees with Piercing Throw
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Presentiment on March 15, 2010, 08:34:17 PM
Left/Right Jab, I would imagine, would be rarely useful.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 16, 2010, 06:11:09 AM
Actually, Presentiment, I think this attack can be used quite often, as it allows the player to expand the positioning of units on the map and allow for such rare things like fontal attack on an enemy, without the need to surround it and expose the units. It also allows to mount an all-around attack on the enemy, surrounding it from all 8 squares and being able to deal damage much more quickly. It also allows the Spearman to be used in maps with many obstacles- where other units are rendered useless 'cause of a boulder, for instance, the Spearman can do the job, making him much more versatile.

About Piercing Throw, I believe people raised issues about this encroaching into Rahel's territory of ranged attacks. Personally, I really like it and think it a logical extension of Throw, but then it would seem that the Spearman would be a much more complete teammate than Rahel.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Presentiment on March 17, 2010, 11:20:30 PM
Yes, but it still won't be used often because those examples are highly situational, requiring an enemy unit to be adjacent and the Spearman nicely ensconced between some boulders.

Which means although it can occasionally be useful, it won't be used often.

So it won't level up.

Making it weak.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 18, 2010, 08:34:28 AM
Yes, but it still won't be used often because those examples are highly situational, requiring an enemy unit to be adjacent and the Spearman nicely ensconced between some boulders.

Which means although it can occasionally be useful, it won't be used often.

So it won't level up.

Making it weak.

Agreeing with KZ on this one I believe that this attack would be very useful. Firs in the situation where the spearman is out of reach of an enemy.

OOEO
OSOO E= Enemy S= Spearman O= Unaffected Space

Sound when you attack a boss, I usually like you have the order:

OOOAOOO             
OGOBOOO
OOOSOOO
OOOMOOO
OOOCOOO
OOLHOOO
A= Assassin, B= Boss, S= Swordsmen, M= Main, C= Archer, H= Healer, L= Luca, G= Spearman

But with the right and left jab, I can attack diagonally because the Boss usually targets my assassin, I can have this Position

OOOAOOO             
OOOBOOO
OOOSGOO
OOOMOOO
OOOCOOO
OOLHOOO
Thus I can have one more unit doing backstab damage and maybe result in killing the boss.

The final situation where you could use this is when you are in a bottleneck situation.

XXOOOXX
XXXDXXX
XXOSOXX
XXOGOXX
XXOCOXX
XXLHMXX
 D= Dark Spriggat, S= Swordsmen, M= Main, C= Archer, H= Healer, L= Luca, G= Spearman
Which in this case laves my main out of the situation or

XXOOOXX
XXXDXXX
XXGSOXX
XXOMOXX
XXOCOXX
XXLHOXX
Which in this case more damage can be dealt to the Spriggat.

 
 
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 18, 2010, 11:37:47 AM
Presentiment, I think you're not using your imagination, I just gave an example of how it can be used, but it can be easily extended: just in how many situations do you gang up on an enemy to kill it? And just how often you try to work out what the best spacing around the enemy is, to give it maxmium damage? Left/Right Jab allows the player to use 4 more tiles around any given enemy. A creative player and a good tactician will find frequent use for this attack, especially in a team where there is more than one "tank"-type teammate.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 18, 2010, 04:59:39 PM
for instance

OOAOOOO
MLEGOOO
OODSOOO
OOOROOO


E : Enemy
M: malis
L: Luca
G: Griffan
S: spearman
A: Arman
D: Duvalier
R: Rahel

using this formation you can effectively cut off an enemy (say a boss) and attack him with all characters. Duvalier and Luca use mind blast, Arman stabs, Griffin slashes, Rahel splits her shot (or she can pretty much be anywhere and still hit), and the spear-man hits diagonally. Effectively eliminating whatever they were attacking. The spearman would simply allow for another hard hitting attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Presentiment on March 18, 2010, 05:34:50 PM
Presentiment, I think you're not using your imagination, I just gave an example of how it can be used, but it can be easily extended: just in how many situations do you gang up on an enemy to kill it? And just how often you try to work out what the best spacing around the enemy is, to give it maxmium damage? Left/Right Jab allows the player to use 4 more tiles around any given enemy. A creative player and a good tactician will find frequent use for this attack, especially in a team where there is more than one "tank"-type teammate.

And that's irrelevant because solo enemies rarely last more than a few turns once surrounded. We don't even have four units without a ranged attack, so there isn't any lack of CQC room.

The jabs will rarely be used in comparison to other attacks. It is basically only useful against enemies six squares away, because Melee trumps it in any other situation.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 18, 2010, 05:41:48 PM
Have you played TPA2?
'Cause that would've been a good strating point to see the many combinations when the enemy is moving in a block and is very difficult to surround. Having 4, instead of 3 teammates on one enemy in a formation might result in an eventual win of the game.
Then there is also tactical angle: if it so happens that your Spearman goes before another melee unit, it might be possible to keep line-of-movement clear for the next melee unit to attack the enemy, or clear the pathway with a jab, so there are quite a few uses to this jab. Much like the Solid State Shield: it has many uses too, though it isn't used too often.

Anyhow, any more creative ideas for other teammates, folks? I'd think Arman should get more attacks, as he lacks variety a little.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 18, 2010, 06:00:36 PM
What ever happened to poisoning his blade?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 18, 2010, 06:05:24 PM
Seems like Craig dropped the idea, at least for TPA2.
I agree that it would be nice to give him a strength-sapping attack. Like poison-stab. Powerful against such enemies as Ravinale Guards.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Frosty on March 19, 2010, 05:36:00 PM
I think a good new attack for Griffin would be wound, which is sorta like sap, only its a physical attack. I also think Arman should learn to throw his knife like Niven does with Knife Fling.
This is my idea from really long ago, and I just thought to bring it back.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 19, 2010, 06:00:47 PM
I think a good new attack for Griffin would be wound, which is sorta like sap, only its a physical attack. I also think Arman should learn to throw his knife like Niven does with Knife Fling.
This is my idea from really long ago, and I just thought to bring it back.
Arman is an Assassin; not a knife thrower.  With a speed of 9 and bonus to attack from behind, a range attack wouln't be useful.
"Wound" doesn't make sense, because every attack that doesn't kill is a wound.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 19, 2010, 06:04:46 PM
And what think you of a poison-based attack? Say it's a variation on his standard attack, just enhanced with Desert Scorpion poison: methinks that as an assassin, that would be quite logical to use. Plus, it's still a one-enemy-hit attack, and uses the same MO, so it should fit in with the units ability. And it can come in highly useful against strength-based units, to such an extent as to change the outcome of a battle. Something like 3-4 PsP for use as well (skillfull application of poison onto the blade mid-battle, with the Gift used to guide the knife along the fastest and deadliest path to the target).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 19, 2010, 06:11:54 PM
That idea has come up quite a bit, eh, KZ? I'm in favor of the poison attack. Twould make sense, as Arman could dash behind the enemy lines, poison the boss, and dash back allowing an easier job for the tanks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 19, 2010, 06:49:08 PM
And what think you of a poison-based attack? Say it's a variation on his standard attack, just enhanced with Desert Scorpion poison: methinks that as an assassin, that would be quite logical to use. Plus, it's still a one-enemy-hit attack, and uses the same MO, so it should fit in with the units ability. And it can come in highly useful against strength-based units, to such an extent as to change the outcome of a battle. Something like 3-4 PsP for use as well (skillfull application of poison onto the blade mid-battle, with the Gift used to guide the knife along the fastest and deadliest path to the target).
It is good idea, but Craig has said multiple times that it would be difficult to code.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 19, 2010, 06:52:25 PM
Has he now? I do remember that the speed-reduction is the one that is very difficult to code, but I don't recollect him saying anything about strength-reducing attacks. (After all, it doesn't affect how the AI should behave, which is a big plus.)
What I do remember is that he initially planned to introduce them for TPA2, but, ostensibly, wanted to speed up the release of TPA2, hence decided to omit them at a later stage.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Frosty on March 19, 2010, 07:24:25 PM
I think a good new attack for Griffin would be wound, which is sorta like sap, only its a physical attack. I also think Arman should learn to throw his knife like Niven does with Knife Fling.
This is my idea from really long ago, and I just thought to bring it back.
Arman is an Assassin; not a knife thrower.  With a speed of 9 and bonus to attack from behind, a range attack wouln't be useful.
"Wound" doesn't make sense, because every attack that doesn't kill is a wound.
Well hey, I can't think of creative names, I just like the idea. But your reasoning with Arman makes sense.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on March 20, 2010, 06:19:42 PM
I agree with the poison attack for the assassin. I also think that strength reduction might be easier to code (no changes in the AI) than a damage over time due to poisoning.

Regarding the throw attack from the spearman, I also think that there is some superposition with Rahel. (And I agree with the left and right jabs).
The simultaneous attack to the left and right could be animated as the spear striking to the right and a kick simultaneously attacking the enemy on the left.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 20, 2010, 06:28:37 PM
Ertxiem, the left and right jabs are proposed as two different attacks, not simultaneous (that would be quite hard!): and people mitgh like having both, as they'd allow the Spearman to be positioned (and therefore exposed) differently with respect to enemy units depending on which jab is used.

Good, I alsothink that poison over time is not in TRPG style, whilst strength reducing poison attack for Arman would be very suiting indeed.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Presentiment on March 20, 2010, 06:44:10 PM
I was thinking of 'secondary' EA attacks.

For example:

Light: Light Ring (from the RP in Forum Games, 1x PA, +3, 1.4x Lvl)

Omnidirectional, 10PsP

Fire: Pyro Hail (perhaps Fire Gate as the EA attack)

+ sign, forward.

12 PsP

Ice: Freeze (makes the enemy unable to attack and invulnerable for one turn, deals 1.5x PA, 1/3 their Strength+PA, 1x Lvl)

Three squares in front.

11PsP

Shadow: Surprise Blast (1.2x PA, +4, +1.5x Lvl)

Pierces three squares in back.

12 PsP




Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 20, 2010, 06:53:39 PM
I was thinking of 'secondary' EA attacks.

For example:

Light: Light Ring (from the RP in Forum Games, 1x PA, +3, 1.4x Lvl)

Omnidirectional,
10PsP

Hey Thats my Idea  :P. How, people sure like to take my ideas and art *cough*Im2smart4u*cough*
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on March 20, 2010, 07:24:22 PM
The confusion appeared because I was too succinct.

I agree with left & right jab (two distinct diagonal attacks) suggested to the spearman. I agree that one should come a couple of levels after the other.

I also tried to make up some explanation to the previously commented attack by the spearman that strikes simultaneously to the left and right (not to the diagonals). The spearman could strike right and simultaneously kick left, thus attacking 2 enemies.

I liked the light ring. It may be another branch, starting from light blast and going to shockwave.

Pyro hail is already implemented. Perhaps I'm missing something...

The freeze attack might be hard to code. I think something like that was discussed in the old forums: a total shield that would allow that character to move.

The surprise blast seems a bit too powerful due to the piercing. Anyway, the PsP seems too much, since pyro hail also costs 12 PsP, affects 5 squares and we don't end up with our backs against the enemy. What about the mix between shadowport and dark vortex suggested in the old forums? I don't recall it exactly (and I'm a bit lazy to look it up) but I think we would shadowport into the middle of a dark vortex. Or was the shadowport out of the dark vortex? Both ways are useful...
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 21, 2010, 12:33:57 AM
the omnidirectional attacks could be there own tree seperate from the "bomb" attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 21, 2010, 10:07:07 AM
Interetsing- I certainly was thinking of suggesting another area attack for Heat, as Pyro Hail was inferior in all aspects, from the discussion in another forums.
So having two sets of area attacks would be interesting, as it would allow the player to have an intermediate stage and really apprecaite the strength of full-blown area attacks. But we need to really make them balanced. I think there is no trouble with Fire Gate- make it cost 17, and deal intermediate damage between Dark Vortex and Light Bomb.
With the secondary EA attacks, variety might come in handy, but of the 3 proposed, I only really see the Light Attack almost fitting in style and not difficult to code in. But then it would be a logical lead-up to Shockwave, rather than Light Bomb.
Then there is also the question of why no one every used those secondary attacks before?

For ice, as a lead up to Cryo Cross, methinks an attack in 4 horizontal/vertical directions with shrads of ice might do the trick- expansion into omnidirectional+1 form will only be natural!

OOXOO
OOXOO
XXXXX
OOXOO
OOXOO

Say, let it have 10 PsP and it will be like Pyro Hail- Fire Gate duo.


You know, for the Shadow attack, why not rip-off Pyro Hail, excpet with Shadow Blasts and maybe for vortex-like shape and originality, have the cross the wrong way (and give the same cost, or even a bit cheaper- say 11):

XOX
OXO
XOX
OFO

X=hit, O=miss, F=caster

Again, it seems like a logical lead-up to Dark Vortex.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 21, 2010, 10:57:43 AM
Quote
You know, for the Shadow attack, why not rip-off Pyro Hail, excpet with Shadow Blasts and maybe for vortex-like shape and originality, have the cross the wrong way (and give the same cost, or even a bit cheaper- say 11):

XOX
OXO
XOX
OFO

X=hit, O=miss, F=caster
How would the shadow attack have a vortex like shape? I think the shadowport/dark vortex attack is better. It could cost 17 like fire gate, and be omnidirectional instead of ranged. The hero would vanish in the dark vortex and reappear somewhere else.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 21, 2010, 11:09:34 AM
Shadowport is learnably only by Shadowlings, and that attack was discussed in terms of being given to Malis, which, methinks is more suiting, than the Shadowporting Main. (He also can't Shadpowrt separately anway, so how would he be able to do it and perform an attack?)
Well, it will all depend on animation, right, so if each of the tiles is hit by a Shadow Blast like animation, the outer-rim ones can all be animated in a clockwise or anti-clockwise direction, thus making a vortex-like shape.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 21, 2010, 11:29:43 AM
I think that a smaller version of dark vortex would look better than the X shaped one.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 21, 2010, 11:44:56 AM
But what area would it cover? Other reasonable combinations, like a 2x2, will be too small in comparison to Pyro Hail, methinks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Presentiment on March 21, 2010, 11:45:41 AM
A 2x2?

Bad idea; it isn't symmetrical, and how do you explain that?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 21, 2010, 11:47:03 AM
Exactly my point: what area would it cover? A small vortex would be like a 2x2, but I have trouble applying that symmetrically onto the map.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 21, 2010, 11:52:12 AM
A smaller dark vortex could be a omnidirectional attack with the main at the middle of the vortex.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 21, 2010, 11:54:30 AM
To be honest, I think that it doesn't quite logically lead up to the Dark Vortex attack: after all, Dark Vortex is a projection in front of the player, rather than around the player. And there is a similar suggestion for the Light attack as well. I think it would be nice to keep all 4 secondary area attacks different, especially as how 3 of the 4 major elemental area attacks are practically the same, only differing in range hit.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 21, 2010, 12:27:04 PM
how about a delayed attack? Arman strikes one turn, nothing seems to happen. A healer heals the enemy back to full health, then the enemy takes the brutal blow on the start of your next turn, allowing you to more easily finish him off without the annoying healer getting in the way.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 21, 2010, 12:42:46 PM
I don't Like the Attack that would do damage later, it just seems so inconvient to do such a thing, why not kill the enemy this trn instead of waiting for the healer to heal them

I thought of an attack as well. What about an attack that would trade your health for psp points and have an opposite attack that trades psp for health. It would a point change for example:

Trade (PsP)

Using their mental strength, the user of this move trades their own phyiscal health to relieve mental stress and tiredness or vice versa if need be.

Range: Self
Effect: Trades Health for PsP (Around 12)
Cost: 0

Yes I made this attack quite ealier just nobody responeded to it  :(
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 21, 2010, 12:55:47 PM
tis not inconvenient. It's like Arman attacking twice.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 21, 2010, 12:57:30 PM
It sounds in your explantion of te attack and arman attacks the victum and then the next trun the victum leaves the blow, Am I right?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 21, 2010, 01:01:13 PM
To be honest, I think that it doesn't quite logically lead up to the Dark Vortex attack: after all, Dark Vortex is a projection in front of the player, rather than around the player. And there is a similar suggestion for the Light attack as well. I think it would be nice to keep all 4 secondary area attacks different, especially as how 3 of the 4 major elemental area attacks are practically the same, only differing in range hit.
You're probably right, but a giant X doesn't seem to much related to a giant O.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 21, 2010, 05:16:31 PM
Well, that all depends on the animation, as I say: if you make the animation look like "falling stars", and the ones in the corners form a circle by all falling in a clockwise or anticlockwise direction, whilst the central one simply strikes down coming from the Hero, then you get a Shadow Blast vortex type animation displayed overall.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 21, 2010, 06:42:23 PM
How do you get shadow blast to look like falling stars? I get what you're trying to say, but I just don't see how I will look convincing.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Presentiment on March 21, 2010, 09:53:42 PM
Think Pyro Hail maybe?  ;)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 21, 2010, 10:07:09 PM
That never looked like falling stars to me. Even though I knew based on the name and Arman's description that the attack did rain fire down from above, it always looked like the blasts were fired forward from the hero and not above from the hero.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Presentiment on March 21, 2010, 10:43:22 PM
Another possibility, of course, would be to have the projectiles start out small, then increase in size and explode.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 21, 2010, 11:49:26 PM
if they're falling and we have an aerial view shouldn't they start big and decrease in size?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 22, 2010, 10:42:23 AM
That's reasonable, Zhampir. But then again, if they originate a few meters above the ground, I don't think the size will matter that much.
yogc: if you look carefully, you'll see that Pyro Hail is, indeed, animated in such fashion as to create the effect of the fire globes falling from above. Same can be applied to the proto-Drak Vortex attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 22, 2010, 11:26:35 AM
Why not instead of having them rain down form the skys the user shoots the stars forward from his/her hands and lands in the target space in the middle if the X and they shoot out like the points on a star The fifth point would be connect to the castor. Sort of Like Presentiment's Idea expect on one Huge Star that would explode.

Shadow Star:

Range:

XOX
OXO
XOX
OCO

C= Castor Facing Up
O= Unaffected Space
X= Affected Space

Cost: 11 PsP

I also think it has been argeed that we want an attack after the 'blast' attack but before the major attack. We Have 'Light Ring' which is a omidierctional light blast and 'Shadow Star' which can be changed. We would need also a Cryo and Pryo attack to complemnt this range of attacks

Thoughts Folks?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 22, 2010, 11:42:14 AM
How about the ideas I suggested in the previous page? ;)

Incidentally, the area covered by the "shadow star" is the one I proposed to use for the shadow attack, on the previous page (unless, of course, you're referring to that idea).

Pyro attack has Pyro Hail, and the big one can be Fire Gate.
Cryo Cross- see previous page (effectively remove the diagonally hit tiles on Cryo Cross, 10 PsP)

The Light can be the omnidirectional ring.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 22, 2010, 11:44:50 AM
I was referring And I Like all of those attack ideas, we just need to put them into format and ask the community wiether they support them or Not
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on March 22, 2010, 05:13:22 PM
we shouldn't forget new attacks for Griffin
he needs some sort of defense attack where he can take damage for other people
like, he casts it on somebody and for three turns he takes damage instead of the person reciving it
i mean, he has the Gift, and so far he's only used it to swing really hard (slash and double strike) or twirl his sword behind him (backhand)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Presentiment on March 22, 2010, 07:47:48 PM
if they're falling and we have an aerial view shouldn't they start big and decrease in size?

Oops, that's what I meant. Or at least was thinking about before typing.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 23, 2010, 01:19:28 PM
Well, at least the idea of Rahel having a range 4 attack got in: Craig just said that trueshaft is a sniping attack with extra power (10 PsP cost though).

Who esle have we left out in general discussion so far?
Do you reckon Set has enough attacks? (Pacifist he may be, but I'd love for him to get at least a quasi-offensive attack, like Feedback. Though I highly doubt that will happen.)

For the potential Red Spriggat, I think having the two Heat shields might be a logical addition, since Grotius had the Frost Shield.

I agree that Griffin should have another attack, an area attack preferably.

Would everyone agree that it would be nice to have Arman equipped with a Desert Scorpion poison stab-style attack? (Get -1 to the enemy's strength.) Could be used with great efficiency against the enemy, and shouldn't require tinkering with the enemy AI. (If all agree, I'll add it to formulated.) What do you reckon the cost should be?

Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 23, 2010, 01:24:25 PM
Around 6-10 because if your taking out one strength that's pretty big, and it is an attack from arman (whose attacks either use to much or too little PsP) so it makes somewhat balanced.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 23, 2010, 01:26:51 PM
Indeed, that sounds reasonable- for it not to be overused, but still available, if it's just Stab+poison, then how about 6?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 23, 2010, 01:34:51 PM
Seven sounds more fair don't you think.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 23, 2010, 02:35:58 PM
Do you reckon Set has enough attacks? (Pacifist he may be, but I'd love for him to get at least a quasi-offensive attack, like Feedback. Though I highly doubt that will happen.)
He has more attack then any other ally.  If you want a healer who can attack, then you should have a Shadowling Healer (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=234.0).

For the potential Red Spriggat, I think having the two Heat shields might be a logical addition, since Grotius had the Frost Shield.
That would be a dissadvantage for those who picked the heat element for the Hero.  Hero's with non-Heat elements would be able to give two types of resistance, while the Heat Hero will only be able to give one.

Would everyone agree that it would be nice to have Arman equipped with a Desert Scorpion poison stab-style attack? (Get -1 to the enemy's strength.) Could be used with great efficiency against the enemy, and shouldn't require tinkering with the enemy AI. (If all agree, I'll add it to formulated.) What do you reckon the cost should be?
I would like it if you can think of a better name then "Desert Scorpion poison stab-style attack".
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on March 23, 2010, 03:13:30 PM
the idea of Arman having a debuff attack sounds good
how about "Poison Strike (or Blow)"
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 23, 2010, 04:50:45 PM
or quite simply Poison, the descriptive name can be applied in the description when he learns the attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Presentiment on March 23, 2010, 07:38:11 PM

Would everyone agree that it would be nice to have Arman equipped with a Desert Scorpion poison stab-style attack? (Get -1 to the enemy's strength.) Could be used with great efficiency against the enemy, and shouldn't require tinkering with the enemy AI. (If all agree, I'll add it to formulated.) What do you reckon the cost should be?
I would like it if you can think of a better name then "Desert Scorpion poison stab-style attack".
[/quote]

1 strength is usually not that much to subtract from an enemy; it is usually much more efficient to just outright own them with Mega Stab.

Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 24, 2010, 08:36:44 AM
That depends on how much cheaper the poison attack is, and how effective mega stab is- if it can knock out the enemy in one turn- go for it, otherwise reduce the enemy's damage and keep going at him for several turns. Forget not what you said yourself of the significance of 1 damage difference over time- plus, the attack can be used more than once. If it's kept within the 6-7 range, then I think it might be worth going for it twice, then go for one Mega Stab, run out of PsP, and resort to Knife to kill the boss off.

"Poison Strike" or "Poison Stab" sounds reasonable. Anyone else have other suggestions?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 24, 2010, 09:12:47 AM
I Like "Tainted Stirke" personally and I would go with "Poison Strike" if the descision comes to that
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 24, 2010, 02:01:24 PM
I like Poison Strike and Poison Stab is a close second.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 24, 2010, 05:08:56 PM
I like poison stab and poison strike second, but it doesn't matter that much to me. Back to the area attacks, I like the shadow star attack better than the previous one.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on March 24, 2010, 05:35:20 PM
how about a paralyzing attack for arman that lasts one turn and can only be used once per scorpion you kill
or some number dependant on the number of times you killed a scorpion, depends on how frequent CraigStern makes them in the final update
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 24, 2010, 05:41:04 PM
while sounding nice, that would be difficult to implement, while do-able, just annoying long to code.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 25, 2010, 08:34:15 AM
Ok, then I'll add into formulated the poison attack for Arman, keeping the two names, as I, like you guys, have little preference for one over other (poison strike v poison stab).

yogc- to be frank, I think those new area attacks are a bit of a red herring: they'll take a lot of time to implement and they wouldn't be adding that much variety to game-play, so I am sceptical that Craig will be easily persuaded about them. But  let's see how things go.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Frosty on March 26, 2010, 02:37:37 PM
Why can't Luca learn Cold Attacks like other ghosts can?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 26, 2010, 08:24:09 PM
Why can't Luca learn Cold Attacks like other ghosts can?
Other ghost are skilled in attacks, while Luca is skilled in supporting others.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 27, 2010, 11:55:07 AM
Indeed, Luca seems to be a prolofic specialist in unusual abilities, rather than pure power- and it places her in a unique niche. It seems she is not very powerful for a ghost, not enough to use elemental attacks, but she is skilled enough to perform small tricks which require less power.

Ok, so we have ideas for extra attacks for Malis, Arman and the un-named Spearman-class teammate. Rahel got, as per our discussions, a sniper attack with range 4.
Where does that leave us now? We have the un-named Red Spriggat, Griffin, Set and Luca.
Duvalier, in my opinion, has more than enough attacks to play around with- there is a host of offensive attacks, more than even the Shadowling Healer posses, then there is a host of elemental offensive attacks, plus the extra icing on the cake- Feedback and Vengeance. This all seems well rounded and well covered. Having a second affinity coming up mid-late game might be an option to consider (given all that talk about bielemental attacks two years ago).


Luca has a fair few useful attacks, not only can she be used as a PsP source gatherer for the team and supplier, she can also be used for re-shuffling teammate/enemy positions with Juxtapose. Do you recon this is enough? Or do you think she should have, as a support unit, a third branch of useful skills to have? Like what?

I think Griffin is currently lacking a little in his attack arsenal- his attacks are nice, but Slash does not look impressive at all in comparison to Helena's Whirlwind- now that was something. A bigger area attack, perhaps? 'Cause so far he has two identical melee attacks, like Stab and Mega Stab, useful, granted, but not providing with much of variety. Backhander certainly stands out in this respect. But then, Slash doesn't seem like a very powerful area attack. Any thoughts on this?

Set has pretty much all- I cannot really and honestly think of a new original shield that could be useful for him and differ enough to be used in the game. There was talk of adding a more offensive attack, like Feedback, but that isn't really in his character. There was also talk of an easter-egg type shield which Set learns only if he completes a side-quest with some kind of event that forces Set to use a shield to push a teammate out of harms way and hurt the teammate in the process. So there was an idea of a "pushing" attack that deals symbolic amount of damage- liek 4hp, but pushes a teammate/enemy one tile back. But then there were discussions about what happens if a non-flying unit is displaced into a river or a chasm, etc, etc. Thus, apart from these, I don't see much more in terms of attacks that Set can have.

Un-named Red Spriggat, probably will have 3 attacks, at least- Mind Blast, Fire Breath and Fire Breath 2. (Deducing this from TPA2.) So, would that be enough? 3 attacks, whilst most other teammates will have at least 4? I don't know. I did suggest giving an extra elemental shield, but then it would mean that Dulvalier's elemental shield with Heat would be a bit useless. How about giving a Shadow shield to Malis, a Cold Shield to Luca and a Light Shield to, say, Set? But I don't really like that idea much.  There was a suggestion of the Red Spriggat performing the following attack:

XXX
OXO
ORO

O=empty, X=hit, R=Red Spriggat

With the Spriggat using his Psy power to disperse, rather than focus the fire erupting from his mouth. This attack will then be complementary to Fire Breath 2, as it has shorter, but wider range.

So, what are your thoughts, folks?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on March 27, 2010, 06:05:18 PM
sounds good for the red spriggats fire spray attack

lets give griffin an attack where he throws his sword in a move that hits 2 spaces in front of him
as i said a page or two ago, he may be a melee fighter, but he does have the gift anyways
or maybe he could have feedback
your choice
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 27, 2010, 06:40:39 PM
How about for Griffin we have an area attack that is like slash only 5 X better. I was thinking about an attack that almost add the same effect, but I wanted to put griffen in much less danger and have more of a opportunity to hurt the enemy.

Hack:

Cost: 14

OOOOO
OXXXO
OXXXO
OOGOO
OOOOO
G = Griffin Facing North X= Space Affected O= Unaffected Space

Ideas/Improvements People?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on March 27, 2010, 06:49:11 PM
maybe change it to
OOXOO
OXXXO
OXXXO
OOGOO
OOOOO
so it would fit a sword's attack shape a little better
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 27, 2010, 06:58:41 PM
maybe change it to
OOXOO
OXXXO
OXXXO
OOGOO
OOOOO
so it would fit a sword's attack shape a little better

I was thinking that griffin would swing his sword like his does in slash but on a much larger scale, good idea though, I pretty sure sombody could use an attack with a range of that!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 27, 2010, 07:38:05 PM
maybe change it to
OOXOO
OXXXO
OXXXO
OOGOO
OOOOO
so it would fit a sword's attack shape a little better
more like if he threw his sword and guided it in a boomerang curve with the gift
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on March 28, 2010, 06:59:28 AM
I like the idea of both this "Sweep" Attack and my idea for aa attack with range of 2 spaces directly in front of Griffin, maybe call this one "Stab" (or since Arman already has a Stab we could call it pierce)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 28, 2010, 07:12:53 AM
I don't know: that really overlaps with the spearman's attacks, don't you think? And how can he "realistically" cover that area with his sword?
Personally, I'd rather see him equipped with something akin to whirlwind- now that was the ultimate melee attack!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bubba on March 28, 2010, 01:57:03 PM
If Luca can revive teamates out of battle, why can't she revive them in battle?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 28, 2010, 01:59:40 PM
Good question, that: probably because she needs to concentrate hard on the process, and in battle she would be obviously distracted and would have to move around a lot. As well, the body might be in the midst of an enemy formation- chances are, they'll get to Luca and break through her defenses before she finishes the process (again, another reason may be that the process is so slow the battle is over before she can complete it, so it's better for her to help out other teammates, rather than to try and revive the fallen one).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 30, 2010, 01:54:03 PM
I think Griffin is currently lacking a little in his attack arsenal- his attacks are nice, but Slash does not look impressive at all in comparison to Helena's Whirlwind- now that was something. A bigger area attack, perhaps? 'Cause so far he has two identical melee attacks, like Stab and Mega Stab, useful, granted, but not providing with much of variety. Backhander certainly stands out in this respect. But then, Slash doesn't seem like a very powerful area attack. Any thoughts on this?
I think if Griffen upgrades Slash to attack-level 2, he should be able to learn Whirlwind.  I think Griffin's Whirlwind would need to cost more PsP though.

Whirlwind (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Whirlwind):
Element: Physical
Range: Omnidirectional
Cost: 8 Psy Points
Damage: ? ? ?

Un-named Red Spriggat, probably will have 3 attacks, at least- Mind Blast, Fire Breath and Fire Breath 2. (Deducing this from TPA2.) So, would that be enough? 3 attacks, whilst most other teammates will have at least 4? I don't know. I did suggest giving an extra elemental shield, but then it would mean that Dulvalier's elemental shield with Heat would be a bit useless. How about giving a Shadow shield to Malis, a Cold Shield to Luca and a Light Shield to, say, Set? But I don't really like that idea much.  There was a suggestion of the Red Spriggat performing the following attack:

XXX
OXO
ORO

O=empty, X=hit, R=Red Spriggat

With the Spriggat using his Psy power to disperse, rather than focus the fire erupting from his mouth. This attack will then be complementary to Fire Breath 2, as it has shorter, but wider range.
I like it.

How about for Griffin we have an area attack that is like slash only 5 X better. I was thinking about an attack that almost add the same effect, but I wanted to put griffen in much less danger and have more of a opportunity to hurt the enemy.

Hack:

Cost: 14

OOOOO
OXXXO
OXXXO
OOGOO
OOOOO
G = Griffin Facing North X= Space Affected O= Unaffected Space

Ideas/Improvements People?
How long do you think his sword is where he can swing a ranged area attack?
This just wouldn't work.  Plus, Griffen's niche is close combat.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 31, 2010, 05:08:31 AM
I think if Griffen upgrades Slash to attack-level 2, he should be able to learn Whirlwind.  I think Griffin's Whirlwind would need to cost more PsP though.

That's a very good idea- I like that. I think Griffin should be able to learn Whirlwind at high PsP, so it's more of an extra-bonus, ultimate melee attack which will definitely come in very handy towards the middle/end of the game. I suggest Strength 12 and Psy Power 12 for that one- it will certainly require a lot of focus and strength to carry out. And it's completely logical for it to be an extension of Slash. 8 PsP sounds perfect to me. Initial damage- same as Slash, methinks, otherwise it will be too overpowered.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 31, 2010, 12:03:16 PM
a new attack for Set
Immortalize paralyzes an enemy for 2turns but also makes them immune to damage.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Barzul on March 31, 2010, 12:12:15 PM
I don't think immortalize would be a good title for that, doesn't quite fit. Maybe something more obvious... like Immobilize or Stone Shield, maybe even Grogon Gaze.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on March 31, 2010, 12:26:53 PM
Problem with that attack, Zhampir, is that it affects the active enemy stats- speed, and therefore, the enemy AI. At least, I suspect that might be the case, hence it would be difficult to implement in. Also, methinks other teammates might need a new attack more than Set at the moment.

What think you of Whirlwind and the new proposed area attack for the Red Spriggat?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 31, 2010, 01:32:47 PM
they're good.^^
And I don't think it would effect speed (they could still attack then) just bypass their turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 31, 2010, 01:47:13 PM
What think you of Whirlwind and the new proposed area attack for the Red Spriggat?

I like the whirlwind attack for griffin but the new proposed areas (Red Spriggat) attack seems a bit weak (Pryo Hail only missing one square) what about a an attack where it would go

XXXXX
XOOOX
XXOXX
XXOXX
XXRXX
X= Not Affected O= Affected R= Red Spriggat facing north


This could also be the level up for the attack though...
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on March 31, 2010, 04:41:25 PM

XXXXX
XOOOX
XXOXX
XXOXX
XXRXX
X= Not Affected O= Affected R= Red Spriggat facing north
I tried that for the Light Spriggat and no one liked it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 31, 2010, 06:26:08 PM
Personally I like
XXXXX
XOOOX
XOOOX
XXOXX
XXRXX
X= Not Affected O= Affected R= Red Spriggat facing north
Instead of the fire spreading out a lot after staying in a thin stream when hitting the first enemy and flaring out suddenly when getting to the third space, I think the fire should spread out after hitting the first enemy and move forward after that. Of course, now the attack looks over powered.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 31, 2010, 06:31:28 PM
Wait, Have the Attack first as (around 12 PsP):

XXXXX
XOOOX
XOOOX
XXRXX

and you can get it to level 2 where it does (12 Psp)

XXXXX
XOOOX
XOOOX
XXOXX
XXRXX

I like this personally better as it gives it more room to grow and power up your spriggat.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 31, 2010, 06:33:38 PM
I'm not for or against that idea, but I don't think the second attack should use the same amount of PsP perhaps 15? and also needing Psy Power to be a certain level (perhaps 15 itself)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 31, 2010, 06:38:07 PM
Since my proposed attack would be really powerful, I agree with Zhampir when it comes to the psp cost of the attack. I'm not quite sure about the psy power level he proposed.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 31, 2010, 06:43:35 PM
Ya maybe the PsP could be higher (I'm thinking around 15 for the second one) The Psy Power I do not agree on as well. What do you guys Think Level 1 of this attack 12 Psy Power, and Level 2 15 Psy Power?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 31, 2010, 06:46:39 PM
I don't think the 12 psp attack should change into the 15 psp, I think the spriggat should have the option to learn the 15 psp attack after he levels up the 12 psp attack, and the two attacks should be kept seperate. That way, the spriggat could use the 12 psp attack if he didn't have enough psp to use the 15 psp attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on March 31, 2010, 06:47:20 PM
Wait, are you saying the attack itself evolves into the second attack?
Not that the Spriggat just gains the availability of the attack from the trainer?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on March 31, 2010, 06:49:05 PM
I'm thinking that the spriggat gains the availability of the attack from the trainer. I think Zackirus was thinking about evolving the attack. Correct me if I'm wrong Zackirus.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on March 31, 2010, 06:52:30 PM
I was thinking off evovling the attack but now I see it would be like Fire Breath and Fire Breath 2. I could do with that, as some people might want to use both attacks or might not have the PsP. This attack needs a name though. I am thinking Eruption or Volcanic Burst?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on March 31, 2010, 07:08:02 PM
Hmm, maybe some sort of "Psy Cannon," if it hasn't been proposed already, like what Dark Vortex is to Shadow Blast, but for Mind Blast.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on April 01, 2010, 10:21:02 AM
I don't know- the modified attack seems rather strong, stronger than Pyro Hail, in essence, and I think the main area attacks should remain with the Hero. Plus, given the nature of the Spriggats attacks (chemically started ,generated from their mouth, then "breathed out" by the spriggat), some of the shapes don't look logical from that perspective. Sure, the original one doesn't have such a high reach as Fire Breath 2, nor is it as strong as Pyro Hail, but I think the Spriggats have traditionally been a class down in terms of area attacks than either Shadowlings or the Psy Fighters, so making a superior attack would be a bit starnge and put at a disadvantage a player with Heat element affinity.

Do all of you folks agree on Whirlwind for Griffin  as an upgrade of Slash then? If there are many positive replies, then I'll add it to formulated!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on April 01, 2010, 06:00:11 PM
Do all of you folks agree on Whirlwind for Griffin  as an upgrade of Slash then? If there are many positive replies, then I'll add it to formulated!
I got no complaints about it.

For the few who don't know what Whirlwind looks like:
00000
0XXX0
0XGX0
0XXX0
00000

0-not effected X-attacked G-Griffin
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on April 01, 2010, 06:14:02 PM
I like the whirlwind attack for Griffin.
I was thinking of something like Flare for the spriggat.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on April 02, 2010, 06:45:53 AM
Thanks, guys!

Anyone esle would like to voice their opinion before Whilwind goes formulated?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on April 02, 2010, 01:42:09 PM
sounds good
will it require slash level 2?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on April 02, 2010, 05:58:11 PM
will it require slash level 2?
Or level 1 or whatever.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on April 03, 2010, 04:51:49 PM
will it require slash level 2?
What level of Slash WILL it require? Because I have Slash level 2 with Griffin, or it hasn't been formulated yet?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on April 03, 2010, 05:00:46 PM
will it require slash level 2?
What level of Slash WILL it require? Because I have Slash level 2 with Griffin, or it hasn't been formulated yet?
When the attacks are formulated it means we put them in a list to be suggested to CraigStern.  Just because an attack or enemy is formulated, doesn't mean it will be put in the game.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on April 04, 2010, 02:27:52 PM
will it require slash level 2?
What level of Slash WILL it require? Because I have Slash level 2 with Griffin, or it hasn't been formulated yet?
When the attacks are formulated it means we put them in a list to be suggested to CraigStern.  Just because an attack or enemy is formulated, doesn't mean it will be put in the game.
Very sorry, I'm not familiar with these forum terms yet, as I' am still new around here.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on April 04, 2010, 03:36:39 PM
when you use an attack a cretain number of times, (its something like 33 1/3 for most attacks) it gains a skill level, which usually means it gains attack power
some moves require that you have a certain amount of skill in another move
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on April 30, 2010, 10:37:52 PM
How about "Soul Transfer" for Luca, it works like Transfer, but with HP, providing that she used Soul Suck in the current battle and has Soul Suck or Transfer level 2.

Stats:

Range: 1

Amount Transferred: Amount Soul Sucked
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on May 01, 2010, 06:39:29 AM
How about "Soul Transfer" for Luca, it works like Transfer, but with HP, providing that she used Soul Suck in the current battle and has Soul Suck or Transfer level 2.

Stats:

Range: 1

Amount Transferred: Amount Soul Sucked
Healing should be left for Psy Healers, while transfering PsP should be left to spirits.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: FlyingFinn on May 12, 2010, 08:44:45 AM
What do you think: Should Duvalier have more elemental attacks or is two per element enough? (changing subject ;D) I think that he could have 2 more per element: stronger version of elemental blast (arctic blast, nightmare blast, blinding blast and inferno blast) and ultimate attack (which would be achieved by founding special orb or through training or something?)

There actually should be an own place in the forums for discussion about this. I dont know if there is one already... :-[
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on May 12, 2010, 12:38:02 PM
What do you think: Should Duvalier have more elemental attacks or is two per element enough? (changing subject ;D) I think that he could have 2 more per element: stronger version of elemental blast (arctic blast, nightmare blast, blinding blast and inferno blast)
I don't see the point of new elemental blasts that does the same thing as the orginals.  If you want more powerful elemental blasts, then you either train Psy Power or increase attack's level in battle.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on May 12, 2010, 06:48:07 PM
I think it's a good idea... but I don't think it's needed. It's the same concept as stab/mega stab. Personally I only use one of them... but if the psp cost was formulated right, then it could be a good idea.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on May 13, 2010, 01:40:59 PM
I think it's a good idea... but I don't think it's needed. It's the same concept as stab/mega stab. Personally I only use one of them... but if the psp cost was formulated right, then it could be a good idea.
Stab causes 150% sidestab and 220% backstab damage, while Mega Stab causes 200% sidestab and 300% backstab damage.  The suggested elemental blasts do the same as the old elemental blasts.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on May 19, 2010, 08:45:59 PM
how about an attack that attacks on both sides of the caster?

OOOOO
OXUXO
OOOOO
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on May 20, 2010, 12:17:43 PM
how about an attack that attacks on both sides of the caster?

OOOOO
OXUXO
OOOOO
An attack like that would have to be very poweful like Backhander, because the enemy will backstab you in the next turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: jojolagger on May 20, 2010, 04:25:32 PM
omni-direction feedback for the main.
It would have to be very late game.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on May 21, 2010, 02:16:16 PM
omni-direction feedback for the main.
It would have to be very late game.
A boss attack that redirects damage in an omnidirectional way has already been suggested for a boss attack.  It is called Vendetta.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on May 21, 2010, 06:23:55 PM
Yes, but this is the new attacks for teammates thread. There's separation from enemies and their attacks and teammates and their attacks for a reason. While it's a nice thought to be able to use an enemy's attack against them, it's nice to have enemies that present their own unique challenge, as long as allies that are unique from the enemies.

That makes me think of an interesting attack, though I'm not sure how well it could be used, it may be difficult to implement (I have ideas on how I could do it in C++ or something, but I don't know AS2-3). Anyways:

How about an attack that is not an attack per say but an ability. Like the thought of feedback and vengeance, using the pain recieved from the enemy to hurt them and heal yourself, except that it actually mirrors their attack. The last attack performed on that character would change whatever slot the mirror attack is in to the aforementioned attack. It could even be used to mirror an ally attack/boost.
The way this technique could be learned is by some one very adaptive to the Gift. It could develop from heightened levels in Vengeance/Feedback and also when the character has mastery of more than one element.

Another tangent I've found: Chameleon. a crafty psy could trick the enemies into believing that he is one of them, if only for a turn. If possible, I'd say this move would need a "cool-down" so it is not abused.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: jojolagger on May 21, 2010, 06:36:20 PM
Another tangent I've found: Chameleon. a crafty psy could trick the enemies into believing that he is one of them, if only for a turn. If possible, I'd say this move would need a "cool-down" so it is not abused.
Or a huge Psy cost.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on May 22, 2010, 02:37:04 PM
The last attack performed on that character would change whatever slot the mirror attack is in to the aforementioned attack. It could even be used to mirror an ally attack/boost.
So when the hero gets hit by an arrow, he can then magicly magically conjure a bow and arrow and then skillfully fires an of his own arrow?  I don't see that working at all.

Another tangent I've found: Chameleon. a crafty psy could trick the enemies into believing that he is one of them, if only for a turn. If possible, I'd say this move would need a "cool-down" so it is not abused.
It is incredibly difficult to have an AI with a speed of 4, so having all the AIs able to change sides is way too difficult to waist time trying to do.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on May 23, 2010, 05:27:12 PM
Sorry, "Im2smart4u" but my ideas seem to once again be lost to you. How can I never seem to make you understand what I'm saying, you read the words, but consistently get the wrong message.

1.It's a mental battle a mental trick. The psy simply makes them feel the pain he/she felt, based on his or the attacker's stats.

2. I said nothing about actually changing a character. All that it would require is the enemy ignoring that character for one turn. As if it read them as a rock or something.
This is an attack for teammates page. As I believe I said before. Please do try to listen and understand. The AI would have nothing to do with this "attack". There could even be enemies that are allowed to see past this trick. Enemies higher up in the Cult.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on May 29, 2010, 11:30:56 AM
I'm not sure if someone's suggested this already, but I'd like a self-shield for Set.  He talks about defending himself by throwing a mind shield, but he can't actually do that unless a) he throws up a Solid State Shield as a barrier or b) he uses Big Shield, which is a bit overkill just to defend yourself.  It could have the same stats as a Mind Shield but target the user... Otherwise Set is dependant on the hero (the only other healer in the group) or is forced to waste PsP on Big Shield to heal himself.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Steelfist on May 29, 2010, 02:07:04 PM
Actually, I think that's a very good idea; too often have I had my healer die because my main couldn't get to him.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on May 29, 2010, 03:19:45 PM
I'm not sure if someone's suggested this already, but I'd like a self-shield for Set.  He talks about defending himself by throwing a mind shield, but he can't actually do that unless a) he throws up a Solid State Shield as a barrier or b) he uses Big Shield, which is a bit overkill just to defend yourself.  It could have the same stats as a Mind Shield but target the user... Otherwise Set is dependant on the hero (the only other healer in the group) or is forced to waste PsP on Big Shield to heal himself.
Recover (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Recover) has been suggested for Set so many times that I have concluded that Craig has an unspoken reason for Set not being able to heal himself easily.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 06, 2010, 02:06:31 PM
I think giving Set recover would be a great idea! And since Craig has never directly shot down the idea, it should be fine

Does anybody think rahel should have a melee attack? maybe with the formula:
1/2*Strength+2
Or just
1/2*Strength

Weak, but helpful for tight corners
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on June 06, 2010, 02:25:33 PM
No.  Rahel is a ranged unit and should only have ranged attacks- having no melee is part of the strategy.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 06, 2010, 02:29:08 PM
Fair enough.
How about an arrow shower that covers the first three soaces in front of her?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on June 06, 2010, 02:33:55 PM
I'm pretty sure the concept of something like this:

XEX
XEX
XEX
XRX

was brought up in this thread elsewhere, and suggested to be left to the spearman, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 06, 2010, 02:36:45 PM
Well, a suggestion for a 2 square move for Griffin was told to be the position of the spearmen, if thats what you mean
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on June 06, 2010, 02:41:08 PM
I don't know if that's what I mean because I don't know what you mean, are you talking about Impale?

XEX
XEX
XSX
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 06, 2010, 02:48:09 PM
I like my idea for an attack with range of 2 spaces directly in front of Griffin, maybe call this one "Stab" (or since Arman already has a Stab we could call it pierce)
I don't know: that really overlaps with the spearman's attacks, don't you think?
This is what i believed you may have been referring to

But then I found this:
How about a piercing shot? like Rahel shoots and arrow that has a range of 2-3, damaging both the 2nd and 3rd positions. A range of 3-4 could be an alternative.

OXO
OXO
OOO
ORO
I think that attack should be saved for the spearman class.

Piercing Throw- A powerful throw of a spear can stab through an enemy and hit the square behind your target.
Range: 2-3 squares
Damage: (1/2)Strength + (1/2)Psy Power + 2 + Piercing Throw Level
Cost: 9 PsP

000
0X0
0X0
000
0S0

0=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman
Is this what you meant?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on June 06, 2010, 03:02:51 PM
Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to.

How about an attack that trades resistances/immunities with the target? (Not sure who would get this- Luca, possibly)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 06, 2010, 03:52:04 PM
It wouldn't be that great on Luca, because she'd give enemies physical resistance

But, does everybody support the idea of Set getting recover? If not, speak now or forever hold your peace
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on June 06, 2010, 03:59:34 PM
You may now kiss the bride.  Viewer discretion is ad-
I watch too much Nigahiga.

The trading attack could work on allies, to give one of your allies physical resistance, which would be really useful for Griffin.  But it would somewhat be overpowered, as you could trade it with a DBO to get Mental Immunity.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Dorgon 5000 on June 12, 2010, 06:12:20 AM
I like the recover idea.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: GOD on June 12, 2010, 07:28:15 AM
Especially with the new AI targeting healers, recover would help a lot
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 12, 2010, 05:46:15 PM
So, is recover agreed on, with the same cost and formula from TRPG2?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on June 13, 2010, 11:27:02 AM
I definitely like the recover idea, and I think it makes sense.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 13, 2010, 11:30:51 AM
5 votes! Since KZ is gone, i may as well add it to the Formulated
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on June 13, 2010, 01:11:36 PM
You could contact Ertxiem or wait for KZ.
What if Luca had an attack that dealt damage based on the number of Soul Charges she had? Instead of Soul Suck, it could be Soul Discharge or something like that.  Maybe it could hit all enemies on the board (for a small amount of damage, otherwise it would get too powerful.)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 13, 2010, 02:03:46 PM
hmm- i agree that Luca needs more offensive ability, and a reward for not using soul charges would be nice. But and all-enemy reaching attack that could not be used often is not the best way to achieve either end.
But i do think Lucas speed sould be six. I just can't picture a ghost that moves as fast a Set or Griffin....
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on June 14, 2010, 11:00:20 AM
hmm- i agree that Luca needs more offensive ability.
But i do think Lucas speed sould be six. I just can't picture a ghost that moves as fast a Set or Griffin....
I see Luca as a support class like Set, so her attacks should focus on support instead of offence.
Just because a spirit floats, doesn't mean the spirits move fast.

But, does everybody support the idea of Set getting recover? If not, speak now or forever hold your peace
Recover (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Recover) has been suggested a dozen times in the Old Forums, so I believe that Craig has an unverbalized reason for not giving it to Set.  If I had to guess what his reason is, then it would be that Recover makes using Set too easy.  I have found that I have to keep Set back, because he has already been attack and if I send him forward, then he will die.  If I had recover then I can constally heal everyone; which would be too easy.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 14, 2010, 11:39:40 AM
I don't think its fair to blast and idea based of reasons only you recive from Craig, and apparently through telepathy.......
And he has a self healing move: Big Shield. The reason for giving him recover is so that he could heal himself without the grinding required to allow him to use Big Shield to heal only himself.

hmm- i agree that Luca needs more offensive ability.
But i do think Lucas speed sould be six. I just can't picture a ghost that moves as fast a Set or Griffin....
I see Luca as a support class like Set, so her attacks should focus on support instead of offence.
Just because a spirit floats, doesn't mean the spirits move fast.
In this, I see your reason, and believe it to be up for debate
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: GOD on June 14, 2010, 11:53:40 AM
Its a little late, but i like recover
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on June 14, 2010, 02:40:34 PM
I don't think its fair to blast and idea based of reasons only you recive from Craig, and apparently through telepathy.......
I wasn't blasting yours(and many old forums member's) idea, but telling you to not get your hopes up.  In fact, I would find Recover very useful.  I don't know about telepathy, but basic logic shows that this idea didn't interest him in the past.  If Craig liked the idea of giving Set 'Recover' when it was first suggested, then he would have done so instead of develeping new attacks like Static Shield and Solid State Shield.  Since it didn't interest him in the past, then it is unlikely it will interest him now.

The hostile tone isn't necessary.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 14, 2010, 02:45:51 PM
Apologies for the lack of patience, but Craig responds to very few of the ideas posted, even on the formulated section, so far. Through no fault of his own, he's just busy with making the game. I sarcastically pointed out that lack of response was not the same as a negative response, and did so by naming your source as telepathy. To be honest, you stand by the idea that he has something against it as a complete fact, when the only evidence is a lack of evidence, and it seemed that you were assuming to much. However, in retrospect I was not on the old forums, and have never seen KZ or Craig directly refer to the idea in any way. A quote would help such a point.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on June 24, 2010, 06:26:33 PM
Recover by Set: I think im2msart4u hit the nail on the head with the reason as to why Craig didn't add it in the first place. However, now that the enemy AI is this much smarter, with Duvalier likely to be occupied by other things on the battlefield, I think it's a good idea to give Set Recover and allow him a chance at being useful in "mid-field" as well, otherwise, couple with his lack of offensive skill, and with his very low health, he'll be quite a nuisance to deal with on the battlefield.

In fact, methinks Malis having Feedback and Set having Recover seem the most logical and likely additions that wouldn't require that much extra tinkering with the code, unlike new attacks. (Plus, Craig did say that he'll eventually add Feedback to Malis.)
Disregarding Craig not taking this up earlier, do you actually want to see Set equipped with Recover, im2smart4u?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on June 25, 2010, 09:10:31 PM
Disregarding Craig not taking this up earlier, do you actually want to see Set equipped with Recover, im2smart4u?
Set already told a story where he imagened himself in a bubble to avoid bullies.  That sounds like Recover to me.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on June 27, 2010, 02:06:51 PM
Good, I do hope Craig decides to add this attack in as well.

So, let's have a look at where we currently stand with attacks on each teammate and see if, given their supposed role on the team, is anyone glaringly missing something extra to give them an edge? So far, Rahel recieved an additional sniper-type attack, which is good, and hopefully Malis will recieve Feedback, to put her on par with other teammates. Thus, if Set gets recover, methinks we'll be doing well of getting him to be less of a burden on occaison and fair competition to any other healer that might end up on the team (last I heard there was talk of Shadowling Healer helping out the resistance as a possibility).
Personally,  I would like to see a strength sapping "poison" attack for Arman (I'm sure he can get hold of Desert Scorpion stingers with ease), and it could be a crucial addition to his set- plus assassins are known for not overlooking poisons.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 28, 2010, 04:08:21 PM
Ok, we have another attack that was generally very well recieved and wanted to be seen in-game, thus, I bring you:

Arman
- Poison Stab/Strike
Range: 1
Effect: reduce target's strength by 1 (same as Desert Scorpion's Sting)
Sidestab+Backstab effctes: same as Stab
PsP cost: 7

Don't you mean this one.....
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on June 30, 2010, 02:39:10 PM
Touche, I've been away for so long and had to read more than 1000 posts which were made in my absence with regards to the games, that there are a couple of things I forget.

In any case, who do you reckon should get the next new attack?
For the potential future teammates, how would we like to see Red Spriggat or Spearman attack arsenal increased?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on June 30, 2010, 03:02:29 PM
Its no problem- although its the first time i saw you forget something. Now my faith in the mods is lost, and im going to become an internet troll. JK

But i think the idea for a more spread out fire breath attack, with areas

OOROO
OOXOO
OXXXO

or
OOROO
OOXOO
OXXXO
OOXOO
has been suggested. I like the idea of this attack, with the top area, and a damage of [Psy Power+Skill+2] that is unlocked at a certain Psy Power, then when its at level 2, an attack with the bottom area and the same formula would be available. Maybe it could be called Fire Spew and Fire Spew 2?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on June 30, 2010, 07:31:50 PM
The bottom one is the same as Pyro Hail- not that there's anything wrong with identical attacks (i.e. Melee/Thresh.) 
How would this attack be implemented? Higher-level Fire Spriggats?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on July 01, 2010, 05:27:59 AM
How would this attack be implemented? Higher-level Fire Spriggats?
No- your fire spriggat would get them after a certain level of psy power
Title: Re: Formulated Teammate Attacks Ideas
Post by: jak 123x2 on July 01, 2010, 06:00:29 PM
I think there should be moves that involve attacks that involve a fuision of both psy and melee or even psy and ranged like a move like this

Move: psy air cutter

person: griffin

range: 1-2

cost: 6
Title: Re: Formulated Teammate Attacks Ideas
Post by: Duskling on July 01, 2010, 07:10:02 PM
Welcome to the forums, jak 123x2, use proper grammar, punctuation, play the games, follow the rules, share your ideas, and enjoy your stay! On a more related topic, this is where we post the attacks that have already been agreed on, this (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=25.0) is where we post ideas.
Title: Re: Formulated Teammate Attacks Ideas
Post by: SmartyPants on July 02, 2010, 09:01:30 AM
I don't think Griffin should have a ranged attack.  Range attacks are for bowmen, spearmen, and knife throwers.  All other weapon users should only be able to attack one's immediate area.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on July 02, 2010, 03:33:56 PM
I agree, 'Psy Air Cutter' is pretty much the same as impale.  While I see that identical attacks are perfectly legal (Thresh/Melee, Crossbow/Bow, etc) I think we should leave that to the Spearman (Imaple.)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 02, 2010, 03:51:35 PM
I'll third that: Griffin may be better off with a greater area attack, like Whirlind (after all, he should be an exceptional fighter and be better than his enemy equivalents- after all, Rahel is better than the Ravinale Snipers), rather than encroach into the niche of the Spearman.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on July 02, 2010, 04:08:41 PM
I fourth, besides with the suspected spearman partner you will have a character that can do both long and short ranged attacks (besides it just sounds like another impale)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on July 02, 2010, 04:34:41 PM
@Zackirus: It IS Impale, but with a longer name, useable by a different person.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on July 02, 2010, 07:38:25 PM
@Zackirus: It IS Impale, but with a longer name, useable by a different person.

That is what I meant
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on July 02, 2010, 10:10:09 PM
Also, Dusk- you should change your post about this being the Formulated thread, seeing as it got moved, otherwise people might get confused.

Did the concept of Griffin getting Whirlwind make it into the Formulated?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on July 03, 2010, 07:55:16 AM
One vote for Griffin getting whirlwind at slash level 2!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Steelfist on July 03, 2010, 07:58:08 AM
I'll second that!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 03, 2010, 08:47:21 AM
Did the concept of Griffin getting Whirlwind make it into the Formulated?

You know, I don't think it did! Though it sure was well discussed before. I am definitely up for seeing Griffin get Whirlwind, especially with even greater in-game difficulty due to more complex AI. To compensate for the strength of the attack, why not make it available somewhere around level 15-18, to make it all the more sweeter when Griffin gets it (and it will be right around the middle of the game, where Slash wouldn't be that impressive, really). Hence, count this as a 3rd vote for getting Grffin that attack. If this goes to/near 10 positive votes, this goes into formulated.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on July 03, 2010, 09:24:35 AM
I fourth the Attack because Griffin does need some new attacks! I also agree with KZ, I think we have talked about this before.....
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on July 03, 2010, 09:35:18 AM
Do all of you folks agree on Whirlwind for Griffin  as an upgrade of Slash then? If there are many positive replies, then I'll add it to formulated!
I got no complaints about it.

For the few who don't know what Whirlwind looks like:
00000
0XXX0
0XGX0
0XXX0
00000

0-not effected X-attacked G-Griffin
I thought people agreed on Whirlwind (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Whirlwind) forever ago.

Piercing Throw- A powerful throw of a spear can stab through an enemy and hit the square behind your target.
Range: 2-3 squares
Damage: (1/2)Strength + (1/2)Psy Power + 2 + Piercing Throw Level
Cost: 9 PsP

000
0X0
0X0
000
0S0

0=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman
Is it too early too formulate an unnamed Spearman's attack?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 03, 2010, 10:23:59 AM
That was on the old forums, during a lull in activity, people seem to have forgotten. Let's see if everyone likes this, then I'll add it in. It seems quite a logical next step in increasing Griffin's usefullness and this attack does pose a challenge if one plays with friendly fire on.
(So far, I take it we have 5 people fully supporting Whirlwind for Griffin. Anyone else agrees? The more of us do, the more likely it is for Craig to add it in. Vox populi vox dei, so to speak.)

Well, why is it too early, im2smart4u? After all, we know what class the un-named teammate belongs to and what the standard attacks for that class are. Given that this unit will be a  teammate, drawing on analogies elsewhere in TSoG and TRPG2, the teammate will have at least one extra attack, and here is a chance to voice what expansion we'd like to see. Especially in light of the fact that many players had a chance to use a Spearman and a Red Spriggat in TPA2 in many battles and see in what areas they are lacking.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on July 03, 2010, 10:33:03 AM
I have an old idea:

Trade (PsP)

Using their mental strength, the user of this move trades their own phyiscal health to relieve mental stress and tiredness

Range: Self
Effect: Trades Health for PsP (Around 6-10 depends on the level)
Cost: 0

What does everyone think?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 03, 2010, 10:54:42 AM
To be honest, personally I don't like this attack, we already have something similar in Zen the Reaper's attacks, plus the Transfer for Luca and, especially, Soul Suck. Plus, methinks it's tricky to perform and who should be getting this attack?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on July 03, 2010, 11:18:06 AM
I was thinking the hero himself
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on July 03, 2010, 11:20:20 AM
it kinda sounds exactly like recover....
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on July 03, 2010, 11:24:56 AM
it kinda sounds exactly like recover....

Recover trades PsP for Health, This move trades Health for PsP. Their opposites (msot things in the teleath universe have an opposite: Pyro-Cyro Light-Dark)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on July 03, 2010, 02:43:23 PM
I sixth the Whirlwind vote.

I agree that Recover should be balanced, but I'm not sure how the in-game relation could be explained.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on July 03, 2010, 07:20:26 PM
it kinda sounds exactly like recover....

Recover trades PsP for Health, This move trades Health for PsP. Their opposites (msot things in the teleath universe have an opposite: Pyro-Cyro Light-Dark)
Oops. Read it wrong. Sounds like a luca move, more than a hero move
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 04, 2010, 08:15:34 AM
Well, there is no need to have perfect balance in everything- Recover seems like a nice addition to Big Shield, Titan Shield and Feedback/Vengeance for self-healing- allows more options, but is there really a need for trade? The Main certainly has more than his fair share of attacks, and Luca seems to be well equipped now that she has Juxtapose- she's the ultimate non-healer support teammate, methinks. Unless someone has radically new and useful attacks to give her?

Ok, folks, 6 people for Whirlwind for Griffin, if one/two more people agree on it, I'll add that attack to formulated (Griffin sure would be better off with this attack).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on July 04, 2010, 09:43:37 AM
With Luca's Transfer, I don't see Trade as useful.


The Indigo Orb gives the TPA1 Hero Big Shield, while Indigo Orb gives Duvalier Titan Shield.  That means that the Red Orb that gives the TPA1 Hero Vengeance would give Duvalier Vendetta.
Vendetta
Element: Mental
Range: Omnidirectional (Diamond shape)
Cost: 14 Psy Points
Damage / Healing: Psy Defense + Vendetta Level

No one needs to remind me that Vendetta isn't my orginal idea, so don't comment on the attack's origin, but instead discuss the attack itself.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 04, 2010, 10:12:33 AM
Well, although I originally came up with Vendetta to be used as a challenging boss attack, I think your idea about turning Vengeance into Vendetta is really good (though that still isn't to say that this couldn't be used elsewhere as a boss attack). I really like it- not only does this allow the Hero to tackle harder enemies towards the second part of the game (which became much harder with much better AI), this also gives more room to explore, for instance Craig can still keep the Crimson Orb in the game, and let it transform Pyro Hail into Fire Gate, since the orbs seem to simply augument greatly the caster's abilities, rather than specifically modify the nature of the elemental attacks in use. Thus, this idea has my full support.

This also brings up the question- should Set learn Titan Shield at one point? After all, in TRPG2, both Festus and Anya could learn Big Shield, but the Main could only learn it with the help of the Indigo Orb. And I think the players shouldn't be limited into having to turn to the Main becoming a superior healer- I'd rather he be on par with Set. Thoughts, folks?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on July 04, 2010, 10:26:54 AM
I think Vendetta seems a little overpowered, and its area is, to my understanding, the same/ very close cyro cross.

But i agree with set learning Titan shield, I like the option to make the main a supplementary healer, but the pure healers should always be superior.

Also, if there was an orb to give the main Fire gate, it should also upgrade the other affinities. I think some thread or another had a list of uber EAAs. Ill try to find it.

Light: Shockwave

Fire: (Fire Gate)?

Ice: ...

Shadow: ...

We need at least 2 - 3 new attacks that can fill their places. I personally think light bomb is better than shockwave. But then again, we want to create new semi-attacks (Between Blasts and Final Stages)

Ice: Freeze - where the enemy totally freezes and one other attack will shatter him into pieces. Literally. Cannot be used on bosses.
These are the quotes i was looking for.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Barzul on July 04, 2010, 11:44:48 AM
But there is also the cross-elements to think of. If Duvalier will learn two elements like Craig has said, there would be a big attack that is a combo of the two elements. Attacks like Pyro Bomb (Fire/Light), Dark Cross (Cold/Shadow), Cryo Hail (Cold/Fire), Light Vortex (Light/Dark), etc.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on July 04, 2010, 11:50:04 AM
Double-element moves: Shadow Cross sounds better than Dark Cross IMO, Cryo Hail reminds me of Dusk's old signature  :D
Freeze: it seems a bit overpowered. 
I think the Hero getting Vendetta would be nice. 
mikew781, how is Vendetta anything like Cryo Cross?  It's pretty much a cross between Feedback and Whirlwind.
I think Set should learn Titan Shield.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on July 04, 2010, 11:55:12 AM
I agree with the Whirlwind idea, looked very cool in TRPG2, I can't wait to see what you'll do with it in TSoG.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on July 04, 2010, 12:13:17 PM
mikew781, how is Vendetta anything like Cryo Cross?  It's pretty much a cross between Feedback and Whirlwind.
The area
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on July 04, 2010, 12:18:05 PM
Attacks can have the same area.  Melee, Knife Throw, Thresh, and Mind Blast, for example, or the four elemental blasts, Bow, Throw, Feedback, and Fling (or whatever Niven's range 2 attack is called.)  I don't find omnidirectional attacks overpowered, seeing as the user can quickly be surrounded if the attack didn't finish them off.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 04, 2010, 04:02:53 PM
Indeed, the balance on Vendetta is that it doesn't have the same reach as Vengeance, which can be crucial (e.g. if the Main had Vendetta instead of Vengeance, I wouldn't have been able to employ my strategy in the Nelis battle and keeping the Main far enough from Nelis to force her to use Fire Gate instead of Holy Blast), and, effectively, the same arguements for cons and pros apply when we compare and contrast the elemental area attacks. And, as Bromtaghon rightly put it, for this attack to have maximum impact, the Hero will have to surrounded by the enemies, which could make him very vulnerable to attack on the next turn.

Just to sum up, folks, so that ideas don't get lost.
7 people, without reservation, fully back the idea of Whirlwind to give Griffin. Methinks I'll soon be adding that to formulated, though if I get one or two more people backing it up, it would be great, as it will give more incentive for Craig to add it when he gets back from his vacation.

Then we have the Titan shield for Set, seeing how the Hero gets a Titan shield with an orb, and that the healer shouldn't really be inferior in healing qualities to the Hero. This will, along with recover, nicely set up Set with 8 attacks, Recover included and will compensate for lack of Set's own attacks and make him deployable throughout the field as, without Feedback/Vengeance/Vendetta, and only Big Shield, his real only option to self heal is quite PsP expensive (Big Shield).

Finally, we have the idea that the Red Orb could give the Main Vendetta (omnidirectional+1, feedback style attack) as an upgrade to Vengeance, since, from the looks of the Indigo orb, it seems that the orbs simply enhance the powers of the bearer, thereby not really specifically setting him/her up for a specific attack, but, rather increase the strength of the elemental attacks available to the bearer. Reasons to give this to the Main: well, given the increase in difficulty slope, and the addition of smarter AI, I think this orb will cut down the time required for players to farm for gold (one of weaker features of TRPG2 during mission 4-6 period).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 11, 2010, 05:41:37 AM
Ok, folks, can you kindly give in your last salvo of back-ups for any of the ideas above, and then some of them will go formulated!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on July 11, 2010, 05:45:41 AM
Vendetta: Would like to see, no question. Should come as an orb upgrade, no question.

T.S. for Set: Maybe, it seems a little extreme, what with his already high caliber of healing attacks, Titan Shield would be a bit of a no-kill (anyone get that?).

Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on July 12, 2010, 11:19:32 AM
The downside of Titan Shield is that it costs a lot of PsP.  I'd like to see Titan Shield for Set, but it should be learned at a very high Psy Defence level...
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on July 12, 2010, 03:00:49 PM
TS isn't extreme, IMHO its near useless because the attack rarely heals enough people to be worth the insane PSP cost. Its mostly in the intrest of having your healer be the strongest healer.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Bromtaghon on July 13, 2010, 01:20:23 PM
I agree with MikeW781: Titan Shield isn't extreme, and Set should be a better healer than Duvalier.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 22, 2010, 06:19:05 AM
Ok folks, I'll add all 3 suggestions in then to formulated!


Now that we've covered that, what else do you think is lacking for teammates?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Dorgon 5000 on July 22, 2010, 12:11:03 PM
Well... Maybe an attack that reduces the enemy AI. The AI scales with difficulty, and going to a lower difficulty level whould be practical. Ultimately, they go back to Telepath RPG 2 level. As many attacks are meant to hurt the victim┤s mind, that would be logical.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: fallenangelvlad on July 23, 2010, 02:21:40 PM
How about an attack where u can brain wash the enemy to put them on ur side purmitly and, where u can bind ur soul to anyone so only if the person that ur sole is bound to and u are killed would u and them acually be killed and u can do it to at least 2 people, or a necromancer attack, or dark fog that kills the enemy and it has a chance to make them into a shadowling or blind or paralized and diffrent effects. i have so many ideas if u want more just ask me ill be happy to help
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on July 23, 2010, 02:26:05 PM
Well, for starters, we can't have insta-kill attacks. Nor can we make something like a scorpion on our side permenantly (just an example). No offense, but could you try to make those attacks more realistic for the Telepath series?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on July 23, 2010, 03:20:29 PM
vlad's attack ideas deal with magic which does't work in a non-magical world dealing with Telepaths.
Most of his attack ideas deal with messing with enemy AI which Craig said he doesn't like to mess with.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on July 23, 2010, 04:07:33 PM
How about an attack where u can brain wash the enemy to put them on ur side purmitly and, where u can bind ur soul to anyone so only if the person that ur sole is bound to and u are killed would u and them acually be killed and u can do it to at least 2 people, or a necromancer attack, or dark fog that kills the enemy and it has a chance to make them into a shadowling or blind or paralized and diffrent effects. i have so many ideas if u want more just ask me ill be happy to help
That goes down as the most spelling and grammar mistakes I have ever seen in one post. Please at least make some attempt to fix it.
Also, I agree with im2smart4u and Dusk- the ideas (which I only understood after re-reading your post several times- are not compatable with the TsoG game. As for why not, look at their reasons and read some of the posts in this thread. This will show you how to suggest ideas, and what is reasonable and acceptable.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on July 23, 2010, 10:15:16 PM
The Red Spriggat seems to have no new formulated attacks. I like the old area attack idea that MikeW781 brought up.
OOROO
OOXOO
OXXXO
and the other one
OOROO
OOXOO
OXXXO
OOXOO
Though I personally don't too much care for the name fire spew, I think it makes sense. After all, fire does spread out after traveling some distance.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: algebra15 on July 24, 2010, 06:28:31 AM
Isn't the second one basically Pyro Hail? if the user is a Red Spriggat.

Note: This is not a grammatical error. The question mark can be used mid-sentence, it's just a bit archaic.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 24, 2010, 07:55:42 AM
I agree, the second one is Pyro Hail, effectively, and it doesn't really make that much sense, as fire does spread out,and Spriggats use natural means to spread out the fire. I'd go with the first area attack- I certainly do think that a Red Spriggat teammate would need extra attacks in order to be of any use (why not have a Light Spriggat? That would open up quite a few possibilities).


I wonder if that be showing off, or a tiny dig at those who employ, on occaison, a stylistic anachronism? :P
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Kindle on July 24, 2010, 08:49:36 AM
How many light-element attacks are there? A Light Spriggat would be interesting, especially if they had something besides their element to set them apart.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Dorgon 5000 on July 24, 2010, 09:40:12 AM
I think the light spriggats should be much harder than the others. That would make them feel more special.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on July 24, 2010, 10:55:28 AM
The Red Spriggat seems to have no new formulated attacks. I like the old area attack idea that MikeW781 brought up.
OOROO
OOXOO
OXXXO
What name did we decide on in the old forums for this attack?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on July 24, 2010, 01:28:57 PM
Ohh, that's a good question! I tried accessing the old forums, but they're down again (surprise there)...
I don't think we quite settled on a particular name. How about Fire Gust?
(That's it, we talked about some wind-related names for those attacks.)


As for light elemental attacks, there used to be quite a few- Holy Blast, Laser Blast, Burst Shot, Shockwave, Light Bomb, Light Blast, not to mention the elemental shields. There is still room, however, for Light Breath attacks (we did suggest before that the Light breath could have be a status affecting attack, like Dark Breath, but instead of affecting the enemy AI in some way, it could be used to permanently reduce health, for instance, explained away as lingering radiation damage, and be quite a powerul attack). Overall, the Light Spriggat idea is highly popular, having been suggested at least twice in a major suggestion wave.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on July 27, 2010, 11:22:43 AM
Ohh, that's a good question! I tried accessing the old forums, but they're down again (surprise there)...
I don't think we quite settled on a particular name. How about Fire Gust?
The funny thing is that Fire Gust in the first name that came to my mind too.  "Gust" sounds like a word for exhaling.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on July 29, 2010, 01:46:58 PM
Umm... How about an attack for the hero like... Instability.
Cost: 20.     Range: 5 random spaces.     Damage: Random.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on July 29, 2010, 01:49:55 PM
The random spaces thing could be a problem, as some of us play with friendly fire on.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on July 29, 2010, 01:53:24 PM
True... Maybe it could be a ranged thing like a small number of spaces a distance away from you to contain the attacks. Kinda like light blast's range but none of the certainty that a specific enemy is going to get hit.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on July 29, 2010, 01:58:40 PM
But the random damage part is determined on die roll, right? Craig doesn't do die rolls anymore, as far as I know.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on July 29, 2010, 02:00:34 PM
Ok... Let me think of a formula... will post again later.

-Edited-

How about: Damage= (Psi Attack/2)+(Character Level+3)+Level of Attack.

That appealing?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on July 29, 2010, 02:16:59 PM
So, for example, if my Psy Power was 7, my character level was 7, and the level of attack was 7, then the damage it would do would be 31?

Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on July 29, 2010, 02:21:17 PM
Umm... Yeah... don't forget though. The original cost I thought of is 20. If you were unhappy with the damage being so high.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on July 29, 2010, 02:35:54 PM
It's ok, but wasting 20 Psy points for an attack that may not even hit is a bit of a hassle in my mind. How about maybe 15?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on July 29, 2010, 02:38:26 PM
I'm okay with that. But in the end it's up to CygnusStern to decide whether or not to add it and then what the cost is if he put it in.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on July 29, 2010, 03:02:42 PM
I'm okay with that. But in the end it's up to CygnusStern to decide whether or not to add it and then what the cost is if he put it in.
That's a joke, right? Also, you can just call him Craig, if you want.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on July 29, 2010, 03:08:02 PM
You don't think I don't know that? This is my last post in this thread until A) someone other than me or you posts or B) I get another idea for an attack to post about.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on July 29, 2010, 03:12:51 PM
I don't think Craig is interested in developing a new section to the battle system (dice rolls) this late in the development stage. As you said, it's up to him though. I may be wrong.
Lets, instead, get to discussing damage, and possible formulation for this Fire Gust idea. I like it, and think it should have the formula
Damage= Attack Level*2+Psy Power
Attack level coefficiant can be raised to 1.5 if thats too high, I don't know how hard a hitter the spriggat is supposed to be, nor what his initial power will be.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on July 29, 2010, 03:15:04 PM
Spriggat's I think are kinda in the middle. WAIT!!! I must go consult the records of Saved Games Past!!!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on July 29, 2010, 03:43:00 PM
Craig already used die rolls in the first game, so it's nothing new to him, and I don't think he wants us to win with luck, rather with skill.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Dorgon 5000 on July 30, 2010, 02:16:33 AM
What about a shield that makes a character completly invincibe for one turn?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: algebra15 on July 30, 2010, 03:35:27 AM
About the Fire Gust -- have you noticed that while Blasts level damage at 2*level rate (or three in TSoG), but Area attacks tend to level at a simple 1-1 ratio with attack level? This said, it should probably be more like:


Attack level + Psy Power + 12
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on July 30, 2010, 05:25:16 AM
Dorgon: I don't think he does in battle stat changes.

Algebra15: Go ahead and see. I might not use the spriggat anyway.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on July 30, 2010, 11:42:40 AM
I don't think Craig is interested in developing a new section to the battle system (dice rolls) this late in the development stage. As you said, it's up to him though. I may be wrong.
In one of his videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbaD5LH9V6Q), Craig said he is against dice rolling.


Do we all agree on Fire Gust and Frost Gust for the triangle Spriggat attack?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on July 30, 2010, 12:45:35 PM
Yup.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on July 31, 2010, 01:37:31 PM
New attack for luca: Spiritual Doom

"As it turns out, Luca was concentrating on her name the other day when she discovered she could call spirits from the beyond and set them on a foe. However, it took a little while for them to arrive."

Damage: delayed 3 turns, psi power*5/2+attack level
Range: 1 space
Cost:4
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 03, 2010, 01:23:44 PM
Luca is a support unit, so Spirtiual Doom doesn't really fit.  Plus, if Luca could control spirits, then she would have had the cellar ghosts free her husband.


Contribute- Luca has become so skilled at transfering (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Transfer) PsP that she can contribute PsP to as much as three teammates at once.
Range: 1 (the 3 spaces infront)
Cost: Psy Power + Contribute Level
Amount Transferred: (Psy Power + Contribute Level)/2
Status Effects: Target's PsP increases

OXXXO
OOLOO
OOOOO

L = Luca
X = Target space
O = uneffected space
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 03, 2010, 01:34:56 PM
 I like your attack better.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 03, 2010, 03:35:16 PM
I like your attack better.
Which "your"? Spirtiual Doom or Contribute?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 03, 2010, 04:53:05 PM
Contribute. It was your idea. I wouldn't describe myself as "your"
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 04, 2010, 08:07:45 AM
I'm for the formulation of Fire Gust. Not sure about Contribute, it seems uneeded. I never found that I had three people lined up that were out of, or close to being out of, Psp
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 04, 2010, 10:45:42 AM
Contribute- Luca has become so skilled at transfering (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Transfer) PsP that she can contribute PsP to as much as three teammates at once.
Range: 1 (the 3 spaces infront)
Cost: Psy Power + Contribute Level
Amount Transferred: (Psy Power + Contribute Level)/2
Status Effects: Target's PsP increases

OXXXO
OOLOO
OOOOO

L = Luca
X = Target space
O = uneffected space

Not sure about Contribute, it seems uneeded. I never found that I had three people lined up that were out of, or close to being out of, Psp
To say Contribute is unneeded is like saying Long Shield is unneeded.  Unless all your attacks are Bow, Melee, and Knife, there is no way you wouldn't find it usefull to give PsP to three teammates at once.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 04, 2010, 11:15:01 AM
Not sure about Contribute, it seems uneeded. I never found that I had three people lined up that were out of, or close to being out of, Psp
To say Contribute is unneeded is like saying Long Shield is unneeded.  Unless all your attacks are Bow, Melee, and Knife, there is no way you wouldn't find it usefull to give PsP to three teammates at once.
Its not a relative comparison. Despite the fact that both are area attacks, hte comparison falls short because most characters run out of Psp when they are engaged in longer battles, and tend to be more spread out. I personally did use Transfer multiple times in different battles, but never ended up wanting to have an area version of Transfer. It might be my preferred tactics, (encircling the enemy using small groups) but I never would use this attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 04, 2010, 11:20:03 AM
I agree. I see no need for contribute.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 04, 2010, 01:22:00 PM
hte comparison falls short because most characters run out of Psp when they are engaged in longer battles, and tend to be more spread out.
If the teammates are spread out, then how do you use Long Shield or Big Shield?  Are those attacks unneeded too?  Plus, almost everyone knows that spreading their team far apart makes them vulnerable to being ganged up on.

Not sure about Contribute, it seems uneeded. I never found that I had three people lined up that were out of, or close to being out of, Psp
So you only heal when teammates are on the verge of death and only transfer PsP when their supply is depleted?  That is a terrible strategy.

Well maybe good tacticians can find Contribute useful.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: algebra15 on August 04, 2010, 03:02:33 PM
It seems like you're strongly for Contribute, im2smart4u. However, the area of the attack being horizontal doesn't sem right. Also, I never find that I need PsP donation, or that much healing for that matter. I play on Brutal friendly-fire, and I still see no need for it. If you truly profess to be a "good" tactician, maybe you shouldn't need it at all? Criticizing mike's playing strategy does not give you any more credibility. If it works for him, it works for him. By definition. I don't believe I heard him say that his characters were being killed left and right. Anyway, you were strongly against the idea of selling, or  otherwise recieving compensation for Soul Charges, saying you should need them if you play on Brutal + Friendly Fire. Does a good tactician get his units killed? If you're against removing additional Soul Charges, but for another move to make the game even easier, perhaps you ought to make a choice...
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 04, 2010, 06:54:10 PM
Anyway, you were strongly against the idea of selling, or  otherwise recieving compensation for Soul Charges, saying you should need them if you play on Brutal + Friendly Fire. If you're against removing additional Soul Charges, but for another move to make the game even easier, perhaps you ought to make a choice...
Don't incorrectly tell me what my beliefs are!
I understand if you have more Soul Charges then you know what to do with, but "Soul Capacitor from Gelf" is a terrible solution.  I am not against getting rid of useless soul charges.  I am against bad ideas that don't fit into the Telepath world.
You don't have to disagree with me on every occasion, because I explained how your "Soul Capacitor" idea is stupid.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: algebra15 on August 04, 2010, 07:42:07 PM
All throughout the game I have NEVER lost a unit. 
You should try turning on Friendly Fire on.

While I may have been incorrectly reading too much into that response, I thought that that implied you think if one has too many Soul Charges, one ought to turn the difficulty up, and thus that a system of removal and compensation for the Soul Charges would be unneccesary.

Quote from: im2smart4u
ideas that don't fit into the Telepath RPG universe

Hmm... in a world where lumps of stone and metal come to life to guard humans and black balls with smoky tails that tap into the enrgy of the universe by a bizarre twist in their genetics, and where the spirits of the living with unfinished business freeze everyone around them, or chop off limbs with ghostly axes, and where great flying sapient bats breathe fire, and where little green people sell anyone that walks by a flamethrower and a Psy capacitor for these lumps of stone, and a lamp with an orb of power in it... a device that stores Soul Energy instead of raw Psy energy-- doesn't fit?

This really isn't the place to debate this though. If I have misunderstood the ideas you were expressing in the other topic, my sincerest apologies. However, this is a free forum, and I can give my ideas. Rather than fighting you, I will just say-- I don't like the idea of Contribute.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 04, 2010, 11:52:05 PM
As far as I'm concerned, Im2smart4u is the only one who likes contribute.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 05, 2010, 11:13:07 AM
All throughout the game I have NEVER lost a unit. 
You should try turning on Friendly Fire on.
While I may have been incorrectly reading too much into that response, I thought that that implied you think if one has too many Soul Charges, one ought to turn the difficulty up, and thus that a system of removal and compensation for the Soul Charges would be unneccesary.
You are incorrectly reading too much into it.

Quote from: im2smart4u
ideas that don't fit into the Telepath RPG universe
Hmm... in a world where lumps of stone and metal come to life to guard humans and black balls with smoky tails that tap into the enrgy of the universe by a bizarre twist in their genetics, and where the spirits of the living with unfinished business freeze everyone around them, or chop off limbs with ghostly axes, and where great flying sapient bats breathe fire, and where little green people sell anyone that walks by a flamethrower and a Psy capacitor for these lumps of stone, and a lamp with an orb of power in it... a device that stores Soul Energy instead of raw Psy energy-- doesn't fit?
That says something when a mystical telepathic world doesn't have room for a bad idea where a naturistic, weak-psy race builds a machine that holds humans souls.

Rather than fighting you, I will just say-- I don't like the idea of Contribute.
I can respect that.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 05, 2010, 11:18:48 AM
Mind Ravage: Malis

"As it turns out, Malis has discovered how to use her natural ability to feed off of human anguish and turn it into the ultimate attack by putting the target into so much pain she can feed.

Damage: Mind Blast level+attack level*2

Range: 1
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 06, 2010, 01:47:40 PM
Mind Ravage sounds like a leveled up Mind Blast.  Instead of creating a new attack, wouldn't it be easier to just level up Mind Blast?

Since no one seems to like the idea of a multispace Transfer, that go back to Fire Gust and Frost Gust.


Mind Shield 2-After some training, Set has learned to create a Mind Shield farther away.
Element: Shield
Range: 2 Space
Cost: 4 Psy Points
Healing: Psy Defense + Mind Shield 2 Level
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 06, 2010, 03:14:06 PM
I meant for it to be a kind of feedback but with a closer range. Meaning since Malis is a assassin type, she would be a little more self dependent.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 06, 2010, 06:51:38 PM
Then why not suggest Feedback?  It fits since Darkling can learn feedback and TRPG2 Dual mode has Psy Assassins who know Feedback.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 06, 2010, 07:16:36 PM
Feedback has been formulated:
1). This idea was initially suggested by me. Let Malis have the same attacks as Darkling, so that she can be an self-reliant unit and more useful later on in the game. She's also more like Darkling, than Shadowboxer, so since he could learn it, why can't she?
Malis
-Feedback
No offense bugfartboy, but having the same attack with a range one space shorter seems redundant
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 06, 2010, 07:43:40 PM
Alright alright. I just thought it would fit if malis could feed of of human agony like other shadowlings.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 07, 2010, 08:42:38 AM
Anya and Gamblin' Jack both are able to use Mind Shield with a range of 2, so Set should be able to do the same.
It would be nice to heal a far away teammate without using all the PsP of Long Shield.

Mind Shield 2-After some training, Set has learned to create a Mind Shield farther away.
Element: Shield
Range: 2 Space
Cost: 4 Psy Points
Healing: Psy Defense + Mind Shield 2 Level
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 08, 2010, 02:10:31 PM
Im not sure darkling knows feedback. All 4 of his ability slots are occupied. Are you sure it wansn't Shadowboxer who learns feedback?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 08, 2010, 05:55:03 PM
Duskling can learn Shadowblast or Feedback, depending on if you train his Psy Power or Defense to 8 first.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 08, 2010, 05:57:36 PM
Why. That explains it. Hmm.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 08, 2010, 07:24:41 PM
Ya, I don't think that anybody ever gets Feedback. I didn't know it existed untill i read the topic by KZ anyways.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 08, 2010, 07:31:46 PM
Huh. Great. I didn't want shadowblast for duskling. I would rather he had feedback. :( if only there was a way to change it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 09, 2010, 05:06:29 AM
Ya, I don't think that anybody ever gets Feedback. I didn't know it existed untill i read the topic by KZ anyways.
Same here.

Anya and Gamblin' Jack both are able to use Mind Shield with a range of 2, so Set should be able to do the same.
It would be nice to heal a far away teammate without using all the PsP of Long Shield.

Mind Shield 2-After some training, Set has learned to create a Mind Shield farther away.
Element: Shield
Range: 2 Space
Cost: 4 Psy Points
Healing: Psy Defense + Mind Shield 2 Level
Yes or no?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 09, 2010, 07:09:25 AM
Ehh, what the heck. I like it. Merely because Set needs more of his own abilities not shared by the hero.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 09, 2010, 08:05:48 AM
Okay. Mind Shield 2, (for Set):
Anya and Gamblin' Jack both are able to use Mind Shield with a range of 2, so Set should be able to do the same.
It would be nice to heal a far away teammate without using all the PsP of Long Shield.

Mind Shield 2-After some training, Set has learned to create a Mind Shield farther away.
Element: Shield
Range: 2 Space
Cost: 4 Psy Points
Healing: Psy Defense + Mind Shield 2 Level

and Fire Gust:
OOROO
OOXOO
OXXXO
Damage= Psy Power + Fire Gust Level*2
Need to be formulated. Please share your opinion on the two, and refrain from making new suggestions untill they have been rejected or formulated.
I am in favor of both moves.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 09, 2010, 08:11:13 AM
I'm also in favor.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 09, 2010, 08:24:33 AM
Of both, I assume?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 09, 2010, 09:17:42 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on August 09, 2010, 12:33:06 PM
Duskling can learn Shadowblast or Feedback, depending on if you train his Psy Power or Defense to 8 first.

Quote from: Zaron
Huh. Great. I didn't want shadowblast for duskling. I would rather he had feedback. :( if only there was a way to change it.

I can learn Shadowblast and Feedback? I' am so excited! :D
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 09, 2010, 01:48:39 PM
No. Only one or the other if I understand right.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 09, 2010, 01:59:52 PM
Correct, its a choice. Most players make it unknowingly, but its final once you make it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 09, 2010, 03:38:53 PM
If Fire Gust is formulated, then I thing Frost Gust should be formulated too.  We don't know for sure that we will see a Red Spriggat, Frost Spriggat, or get a choice between the two.

I have only heard yes, for both Fire Gust and Mind Shield 2.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 09, 2010, 04:05:26 PM
They do seem to be widely acknowledged.
If any present has an objection, speak now, or forever hold your peace.
Seriously though, I'd say it should be formulated after a few more yes votes.
@im2smart4u- Wanna be the one to formulated them?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 09, 2010, 04:07:46 PM
I agree with both of them. But no one like my attack where Luca brought spirits back from beyond in the direction of a foe.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 10, 2010, 08:56:12 AM
@im2smart4u- Wanna be the one to formulated them?
You do it.  The last thing I want to do it is be a moderator.  I would perfer someone else to do the honor, while the real moderators are gone.  With I not wanting to do it and with Duskling around less, MikeW781 is the most high ranking forumer and should be the temporary formulater.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 11, 2010, 04:43:21 AM
@im2smart4u- Wanna be the one to formulated them?
You do it.  The last thing I want to do it is be a moderator.  I would perfer someone else to do the honor, while the real moderators are gone.  With I not wanting to do it and with Duskling around less, MikeW781 is the most high ranking forumer and should be the temporary formulater.
I don't want to debate this again, but would like to point out that it has nothing to do with being a mod, just submitting well-accepted ideas into the thread. Forum rank doesn't matter either, as long as somebody neatly posts the agreed upon ideas, it doesn't make a difference how many posts they have.
That aside, if thats how you feel then I will formulate the attacks, after they get a few more votes. We only have about 4 votes, we need at least one more.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 11, 2010, 06:33:54 AM
My imaginary friend says he likes them. He votes yes. That work?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 15, 2010, 09:09:50 AM
Piercing Throw- A powerful throw of a spear can stab through an enemy and hit the square behind your target.
Range: 2-3 squares
Damage: (1/2)Strength + (1/2)Psy Power + 2 + Piercing Throw Level
Cost: 9 PsP

000
0X0
0X0
000
0S0

0=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 16, 2010, 04:20:25 AM
Love it!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on August 16, 2010, 09:48:32 AM
Wasn't the piercing throw all ready submitted and objected?
 I vote yay for the frost gust.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 16, 2010, 10:07:38 AM
Wasn't the piercing throw all ready submitted and objected?
Why don't you check (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=209.0) for yourself?

Yay or nay for a Spearman's Piercing Throw?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 16, 2010, 11:08:04 AM
I like  both Frost Gush and Piercing Throw

(Though I already cam up with the idea (of Piercing Throw) in the form of a crossbow attack. Anyone remeber the attack from my gliding archers?)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 16, 2010, 11:09:40 AM
I also like Frost Gust.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 16, 2010, 01:58:28 PM
(Though I already cam up with the idea (of Piercing Throw) in the form of a crossbow attack. Anyone remeber the attack from my gliding archers?)
(Though I came up with idea of Piercing Throw (http://sinisterdesign.freepowerboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=28260#p28260) from the random one before you even entered the forums)

I also like Frost Gust.
Frost Gust was already forumulated beside Fire Gust.

Yay or nay for a Spearman's Piercing Throw?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on August 16, 2010, 02:01:00 PM
Yay on Piercing Throw here.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 16, 2010, 02:13:35 PM
Piercing throw sounds good.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: mezzoforte on August 16, 2010, 04:59:17 PM
Don't attack me if this was already posted, but what about combined team attacks?  It doesn't make much sense because the team members are so different, but it was just an idea to explore.

Perhaps with enough Aptitude, the Main will learn the ability to focus and combine the mental energies of his teammates into one powerful "mind blast" (though it covers a huge area).  It draws Psy points from all members.

Maybe it would make the game too easy...

A different way would be to combine the physical attacks of members who are within reach of a particular enemy.  This changes the dynamic though: team members can act simultaneously, instead of in turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 17, 2010, 02:10:20 AM
What about changing the name 'Light blast' to 'Photon blast'? Light blast sounds a little... wrong, I think (at least to me it does) and we already have the prefixes 'cryo' and 'pyro', so why not have 'photo'?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 17, 2010, 07:59:47 AM
Photo-Bomb!

Anyway, I don't really care if it the name is changed
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 17, 2010, 10:03:03 AM
Anybody else?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 17, 2010, 11:22:40 AM
Piercing Throw- A powerful throw of a spear can stab through an enemy and hit the square behind your target.
Range: 2-3 squares
Damage: (1/2)Strength + (1/2)Psy Power + 2 + Piercing Throw Level
Cost: 9 PsP

000
0X0
0X0
000
0S0

0=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman
Does anyone dislike the idea of Piercing Throw?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 17, 2010, 11:25:54 AM
Nope. Do you like my idea?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 17, 2010, 11:34:12 AM
One thing: Piercing Throw should do less damage to the person behind than the person in front, because the person in front absorbed most of the spear's momentum, therefore slowing down the spear and dealing less damage to the person behind. Thoughts?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 11:44:19 AM
True. The energy used to launch the blade would diminish as it passes through it's targets, therefore, the person(s) behind the main target should get less damage.
Title: Re:
Post by: SmartyPants on August 17, 2010, 11:44:48 AM
One thing: Piercing Throw should do less damage to the person behind than the person in front, because the person in front absorbed most of the spear's momentum, therefore slowing down the spear and dealing less damage to the person behind. Thoughts?
You are over thinking it.  Dark Vortex doesn't do more damage to the guy in the center and the first guy hit by Slash doesn't get hurt more then the other guys.

Nope. Do you like my idea?
No, Light Blast is better.  Plus, changing the name to an old attack isn't "New attacks for teammates".
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 11:49:02 AM
Slash is continually getting more energy as it goes as it is still in connection to the user who is powering it. Dark Vortex is nothing more than gobules of dark matter hitting targets in a certain area, thus making them a bad comparison. Peircing throw, however, would lose connection to it's user thus cutting it off from it's energy supply. How's that?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 17, 2010, 11:56:48 AM
Slash is continually getting more energy as it goes as it is still in connection to the user who is powering it. Dark Vortex is nothing more than gobules of dark matter hitting targets in a certain area, thus making them a bad comparison. Peircing throw, however, would lose connection to it's user thus cutting it off from it's energy supply. How's that?
You've got a point.
One thing: Piercing Throw should do less damage to the person behind than the person in front, because the person in front absorbed most of the spear's momentum, therefore slowing down the spear and dealing less damage to the person behind. Thoughts?
You are over thinking it.  Dark Vortex doesn't do more damage to the guy in the center and the first guy hit by Slash doesn't get hurt more then the other guys.

Nope. Do you like my idea?
No, Light Blast is better.  Plus, changing the name to an old attack isn't "New attacks for teammates".
???I didn't know that...
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 17, 2010, 11:59:59 AM
Thank you cypher. @im2smart4u Sometimes there is someone smarter than you in some cases.
I just love your humour! :D
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 17, 2010, 12:11:46 PM
Now that you mention it, me too.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 17, 2010, 01:27:52 PM
Slash is continually getting more energy as it goes as it is still in connection to the user who is powering it. Dark Vortex is nothing more than gobules of dark matter hitting targets in a certain area, thus making them a bad comparison. Peircing throw, however, would lose connection to it's user thus cutting it off from it's energy supply. How's that?
A vortex isn't "gobules of dark matter hitting targets in a certain area".  First, it is not made of dark matter.  Second, the corrosive miasma spins in a vortex.   In a vortex, the greatest spinning is in the center, so therefore the center would cause the greatest damage.

If Slash "continually getting more energy as it goes", then the last person struck would recieve the most damage.

Thank you cypher. @im2smart4u Sometimes there is someone smarter than you in some cases.
I just love your humour! :D
And you are still encouraging spamming and flamming.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 01:35:41 PM
Accually its losing energy as it strikes which is regained as the user keeps slashing. Therefore they all get the same amount of damage. And in the vortex, who said the most was in the middle?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 17, 2010, 01:41:09 PM
Accually its losing energy as it strikes which is regained as the user keeps slashing.
You are conterdicting yourself.  First you say it speeds up when it hits and now you are saying that is slows down when its hits.

Therefore they all get the same amount of damage. And in the vortex, who said the most was in the middle?
Read anything about Vortexs, Twisters, or Hurricanes.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 01:43:12 PM
I never said Slash sped up as it hit. Im just saying that it is continually regaining energy as it is in motion.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: mezzoforte on August 17, 2010, 02:05:19 PM
maybe this argument should be continued offline.

And did anyone see my post?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 17, 2010, 02:48:26 PM
Piercing Throw- A powerful throw of a spear can stab through an enemy and hit the square behind your target.
Range: 2-3 squares
Damage: (1/2)Strength + (1/2)Psy Power + 2 + Piercing Throw Level
Cost: 9 PsP

000
0X0
0X0
000
0S0

0=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman
Does anyone dislike the idea of Piercing Throw for smart reasons?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: mezzoforte on August 17, 2010, 02:51:47 PM
no, we're all dumb.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 03:18:50 PM
HAHAHA... It holds great tactical advantage. Sorta like Dorgons Laser Blast except not the range and physical instead of light.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on August 17, 2010, 03:52:14 PM
I agree that some attacks could affect more some targets than others (depending on their position). The thing is, that might be harder to code. The TRPG2 engine wouldn't allow that (as far as I can tell). Perhaps the current version of the TSoG engine (or the next generation engine) can allow a dependence of the damage with the position of the target. In that case, some a few more area attacks could be coded that way too. I'm waiting for that day!

As it was mentioned a few pages back, the piercing throw has been suggested before, so it seems that the regulars around here agree with the regulars of the old forums. I personally like the idea, but we have to be careful to keep it unique.
The spriggats have their breath attack that can have range 1-2 and range 1-3. The bowmen also have ranged attacks: range 2 and range 3.
So, range 2-3 seems to be the best we can have (even if it's a bit too close to the bowman attacks). I haven't thought about the damage (it would require comparing with the other attacks, and I'm lazy at the moment, sorry).

The fire/frost(/dark?) gust look like being a fine attack to have.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 17, 2010, 04:27:37 PM
Therefore they all get the same amount of damage. And in the vortex, who said the most was in the middle?
Read anything about Vortexs, Twisters, or Hurricanes.
Yeah. The eye of the storm is the safest place. Read (http://speak2it.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/the-eye-of-the-storm/)
Its a silly thing to argue about anyways
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 17, 2010, 04:49:36 PM
Along with that, I thought of a new attack for Arman and Set

Dissaper
Arman will use his skills to vanish from the Battlefield for one turn and repears the next turn.
Range: Self
Effect: For One turn, Arman cannot be attacked by anyone nor can any step on his square
Cost: 8

Unbreakable Shield
Set with create a shield so powerful it will be able to deflect any attack off without harming the one with the shield. Altough it only lasts for one turn and one time only.
Range:1
Effect: The person who gets the shield cannot be harmed by any means of attack. It only lasts for one turn and one time only
Cost: 10

Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?




Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 17, 2010, 04:51:41 PM
I like the Shield, it would add tactics for fighting really strong bosses, but don't like Dissapear. It just seems like it wouldn't work in the TRPG world. Especially because Amran can only use PSy to bolster attacks and jump.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 05:02:04 PM
Yeah. The unbreakable shield would be nice though maybe if it restricts speed for that turn as a kind of extra payment. Disappear is kinda overdoing it. Arman shoulnt be able to vanish off the board. He's an assassin, not a magician.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on August 17, 2010, 05:04:24 PM
Sorry, Zackirus, I don't see the point in Disappearing, unless he can attack after disappearing. (And what about the counters? That would give Craig an headache to disable them if Arman attacks after disappearing.)

I don't like to be so negative, but why is useful the unbreakable shield? If it's there until the character inside moves, I can see it's usefulness: the resting character would increase his/her PsP.

Alternatively, an unbreakable shield could be applied to an enemy for a few turns with an effect similar as freezing him: he can't move nor attack our allies for a few turns.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 17, 2010, 05:07:23 PM
The Shield would help because if your tank (Griffin/Duvalier) was in mid combat against a heavy hitting boss, Set could cast it and allow the tank to recover Psp/ finish the boss without dying.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 17, 2010, 05:08:01 PM
I don't like to be so negative, but why is useful the unbreakable shield? If it's there until the character inside moves, I can see it's usefulness: the resting character would increase his/her PsP.

I never said that it would dissipate after they moved. I said that it would only last one turn/one hit. I also thought that you would first use the shield on Griffin then he would charge boss in the level, and then be safe from his attack.

I don't mind Ert, It is correct-critism (A skill which, most people don't have). Besides it is just an idea and not the world.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 05:15:00 PM
What about restricting movement a little? If it's unbreakable, wouldn't it be fitting that the one it's on has to carry the weight until it vanishes?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 17, 2010, 05:19:28 PM
Then I think it should atleast bring the affected person's speed down by 1 or 2
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 05:25:17 PM
Thank you. Someone sees me. I like the shield. We just need a price.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 17, 2010, 05:27:19 PM
Unbreakable Shield
Set with create a shield so powerful it will be able to deflect any attack off without harming the one with the shield. Altough it only lasts for one turn and one time only.
Range:1
Effect: The person who gets the shield cannot be harmed by any means of attack. It only lasts for one turn and one time only. This shield reduces the affected person's speed by 1
Cost: 10

What does everyone think?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 05:36:21 PM
Up the cost to like 15. And I think it should be useable more than one time.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 17, 2010, 05:41:22 PM
It can be used more than one time, the effect lasts for only one turn/attack on your character. I think 12 is pretty fair.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on August 17, 2010, 05:45:48 PM
I'm assuming that the one inside the unbreakable shield can still attack. That would be a nice feature.
Reducing the movement by 1 makes sense. However, the TSoG engine might not be ready to increase the movement after the effect has passed.

The unbreakable shield is useful for preventing a character of being killed when surrounded by enemies. I'm thinking of Arman or Malis, that have high movement and are useful to back-stab an enemy can end up surrounded by enemies.
Nevertheless, being active for only 1 turn reduces it's usefulness and I think that in the short run the result would be similar to using a static shield (with the static shield giving an advantage in the long run).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 05:47:42 PM
Hmm... Maybe it could have a lingering effect that acts similar to static sheild except not such a big HP boost.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 17, 2010, 06:22:09 PM
I'm thinking around half the amount mind shield would give the target
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 06:23:28 PM
I meant static shield. The effects linger slightly boosting max health by half of static sheild.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 17, 2010, 06:25:10 PM
That's what I meant the shield would also give you health half of what you would recieve for mind shield
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 06:26:06 PM
Hmm... I dont know. Sounds okay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 17, 2010, 08:18:53 PM
Therefore they all get the same amount of damage. And in the vortex, who said the most was in the middle?
Read anything about Vortexs, Twisters, or Hurricanes.
Yeah. The eye of the storm is the safest place. Read (http://speak2it.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/the-eye-of-the-storm/)
Its a silly thing to argue about anyways
I live along the Gulf Coast, so I know Hurricanes (I have been hit by one tropical storm and two hurricanes in my lifetime).  Yes, the eye of the storm is the safest place, but the wall eye has the fastest winds.  Also, there is no eye in a small vortex, so the center of the Dark Vortex would rotate the fastest and would cause the greatest damage. Read (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex)

I don't see the point of Disappear.  If Arman doesn't want to attack, then he should uses his high speed to retreat and gather PsP.

Unbreakable Shield does the same thing as Static Shield.  They both allow the teammate to take another attack, so what is the point of Unbreakable Shield.

Piercing Throw- A powerful throw of a spear can stab through an enemy and hit the square behind your target.
Range: 2-3 squares
Damage: (1/2)Strength + (1/2)Psy Power + 2 + Piercing Throw Level
Cost: 9 PsP

000
0X0
0X0
000
0S0

0=uneffected space, X=attacked space, S=spearman
With KZ gone, should Ertxiem formulate (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=209.0) Piercing Throw?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 17, 2010, 09:03:35 PM
The difference between unbreakable shield and static shield is unbreakable shield is, well, unbreakable for 1 turn/1 hit. Static shield just ups HP.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 18, 2010, 03:05:46 AM
I suggest we change the name Unbreakable shield. We should at least see what other names we can come up with.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 18, 2010, 08:47:11 AM
What about Stasis Shield
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 18, 2010, 09:00:02 AM
Now that's a good name!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 18, 2010, 10:51:49 AM
The difference between unbreakable shield and static shield is unbreakable shield is, well, unbreakable for 1 turn/1 hit. Static shield just ups HP.
So static shield would and unbreakable shield would cost the same PsP, yet unbreakable shield will be useless after one turn, while static shield will allow the teammate to keep his raised HP for every future turn.  Why would I use unbreakable shield?

What about Stasis Shield
Sounds too much like Static Shield
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 18, 2010, 11:00:08 AM
The difference between unbreakable shield and static shield is unbreakable shield is, well, unbreakable for 1 turn/1 hit. Static shield just ups HP.
So static shield would and unbreakable shield would cost the same PsP, yet unbreakable shield will be useless after one turn, while static shield will allow the teammate to keep his raised HP for every future turn.  Why would I use unbreakable shield?

What about Stasis Shield
Sounds too much like Static Shield
So what, it's still a good name... unless you can come up with a better one, that is.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 18, 2010, 12:03:35 PM
Its for one time events. For example: Holy Blast from Nelis does a lot of damage, and your teamate might die even if he/she has static shield. However, if you had stasis shield your teamate would survive the encounter. It does cost around the same. Also keep in mind it does give your guy more health.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 18, 2010, 12:51:32 PM
It is very unlikely that a teammate will die from one Final Boss attack at the end of the game.  By the end of the game, Set's stats should make Static Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Static_Shield) [(Psy Defense + Static Shield Level) X 2] able to withstand any attack for one turn.  Plus, do you really expect Craig to spend his time making an attack that can only be useful against the final boss?

What about Stasis Shield
Sounds too much like Static Shield
So what, it's still a good name... unless you can come up with a better one, that is.
Cypher, you need to stop disagreeing with me just for the sake of disagreeing with me.  It is just immature.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 18, 2010, 12:58:11 PM
What if the last character joined you just before that boss and he/she/it was so weak a bandit could take it out?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 18, 2010, 01:05:42 PM
What if the last character joined you just before that boss and he/she/it was so weak a bandit could take it out?
I nocticed that Craig has created a very smart solution to that.  He introduces a new teammates at the end of the missions.  At the end of the missions is when you have the most amount of stored gold.  Like with Malis, it is wise to use the gold accumulated on the mission to train up your new teammate to the same level as the rest of the team.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 18, 2010, 01:10:00 PM
Oh ok... I hadnt noticed that. Thank you... But I still like the idea of the Unbreakable/Stasis Sheild. It holds some tacitical advantage. But maybe we can up the price some so that it isnt quite equal to Static Sheild.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 18, 2010, 01:10:12 PM
It can be useful in more than one situation. It can be used when you have Arman or Malis running behind enemy lines to kill the archers and healers and you don't want to be hurt that badly during the enemues turn. It could also be used for defence as one of your guys might die this turn (Even if he is at full health).

For the Final Battle, sure he would survive if Set used Static Shield (he has a defence 18 and Static shield is at level 2), as It would increase Griffin Health by 40 and let's say it is at 60 = 100. But The attack would do more than 60 damage and he would have to be healed again the next turn when Stasis shield would prevent the need for Set to heal him next turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 18, 2010, 01:27:06 PM
Oh ok... I hadnt noticed that. Thank you... But I still like the idea of the Unbreakable/Stasis Sheild. It holds some tacitical advantage. But maybe we can up the price some so that it isnt quite equal to Static Sheild.
I see Unbreakable Sheild like some people saw my Contribute (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=25.msg16952#msg16952) idea.  It may be useful in very rare instances, but useless 99% of the time.

For the Final Battle, sure he would survive if Set used Static Shield (he has a defence 18 and Static shield is at level 2), as It would increase Griffin Health by 40 and let's say it is at 60 = 100. But The attack would do more than 60 damage and he would have to be healed again the next turn when Stasis shield would prevent the need for Set to heal him next turn.
Wouldn't be smarter to use Static Shield the first turn and Mega Shield the second turn?  The alternative of using Unbreable Shield twice would cost 5 more PsP and serve the exact same purpose.

It can be useful in more than one situation. It can be used when you have Arman or Malis running behind enemy lines to kill the archers and healers and you don't want to be hurt that badly during the enemues turn. It could also be used for defence as one of your guys might die this turn (Even if he is at full health).
Static Shield is a good move to use when sending assassins behind enemy lines.  It already allows them to take more hits.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 18, 2010, 01:39:27 PM
For the Final Battle, sure he would survive if Set used Static Shield (he has a defence 18 and Static shield is at level 2), as It would increase Griffin Health by 40 and let's say it is at 60 = 100. But The attack would do more than 60 damage and he would have to be healed again the next turn when Stasis shield would prevent the need for Set to heal him next turn.
Wouldn't be smarter to use Static Shield the first turn and Mega Shield the second turn?  The alternative of using Unbreable Shield twice would cost 5 more PsP and serve the exact same purpose.

No, You won't have to do Mega Shield until the next turn. You get wait one more turn until you used Mega Shield.

It can be useful in more than one situation. It can be used when you have Arman or Malis running behind enemy lines to kill the archers and healers and you don't want to be hurt that badly during the enemues turn. It could also be used for defence as one of your guys might die this turn (Even if he is at full health).
Static Shield is a good move to use when sending assassins behind enemy lines.  It already allows them to take more hits.

Same thing as Before, the one extra turn it provides.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 18, 2010, 02:22:39 PM
Unbreakable shield is useful because in scenarios where you will be surrounded and attacked, you can take zero damage and then will not need to heal the next turn. Also, imagine Set has to attend to two tank units, who are to far away for evern titan shield to reach. He can use Unbreakable shield on Tank A, and cast it one Tank B for the next turn. After two full turns, Tank B is at full health and Tank A has one round of damage. Trying to do this with regular healing just wouldn't work.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on August 18, 2010, 06:04:15 PM
With KZ gone, should Ertxiem formulate (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=209.0) Piercing Throw?
That topic isn't locked. As soon as most of the regulars agree with a formulated attack, anyone can post there. As long as things are tidy, everything is OK.

I also think that Stasis Shield is a name too close to Static Shield. People may mix them up if they read too quickly.
What about Diamond Shield (provided it's as hard as a diamond, or in a diamond shape) or Cocoon Shield or even Indestructible Shield. (I'm not crazy about none of my suggestions, though.)

About the usefulness of the Unbreakable Shield, I agree with im2smart4u's arguments. I don't see much use of it. Even if playing a mission like saving Gen. Darkeye.
When way I play TSoG, sometimes I use Set to make a bunch of Static Shields with Luca by his side to feed hum PsP. This way, the experience rises quite fast and soon I'm able to give more health than what the character starts with.
If I was saving Gen. Darkeye, I'm pretty sure a couple of Static Shields would be enough (and more long lasting than a Unbreakable Shield).
I find Set+Luca+Static Shield enough for any character that ventures near a lot of enemies. So I don't see in Unbreakable Shield enough differentiation in results to make it a really useful attack to have in an ally.
However, it would be hard to beat an enemy healer that could use Unbreakable Shield (instead of using Static Shield) in an ally once every few turns. I would like to battle against those!

Cypher and im2smart4u: cool down, please. You're just provoking each other.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 18, 2010, 06:08:17 PM
Unyeilding Sheild? Set Sheild?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 19, 2010, 03:43:18 AM
I'l go with Diamond shield.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 19, 2010, 06:50:32 AM
I'll Second for Diamond Shield
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 19, 2010, 08:36:28 AM
I also think that Stasis Shield is a name too close to Static Shield. People may mix them up if they read too quickly.

About the usefulness of the Unbreakable Shield, I agree with im2smart4u's arguments. I don't see much use of it. Even if playing a mission like saving Gen. Darkeye.
When way I play TSoG, sometimes I use Set to make a bunch of Static Shields with Luca by his side to feed hum PsP. This way, the experience rises quite fast and soon I'm able to give more health than what the character starts with.
If I was saving Gen. Darkeye, I'm pretty sure a couple of Static Shields would be enough (and more long lasting than a Unbreakable Shield).
I find Set+Luca+Static Shield enough for any character that ventures near a lot of enemies. So I don't see in Unbreakable Shield enough in results to make it a really useful attack to have in an ally.
I know some of you argue with me for the sake of argueing with me, but if you realy believe that Unbreakable Shield would be useful, then you would debate with Ertxiem too.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 19, 2010, 08:43:25 AM
I never said it's useful, just that it should be called Diamond Shield.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 19, 2010, 10:04:04 AM
I also think that Stasis Shield is a name too close to Static Shield. People may mix them up if they read too quickly.

About the usefulness of the Unbreakable Shield, I agree with im2smart4u's arguments. I don't see much use of it. Even if playing a mission like saving Gen. Darkeye.
When way I play TSoG, sometimes I use Set to make a bunch of Static Shields with Luca by his side to feed hum PsP. This way, the experience rises quite fast and soon I'm able to give more health than what the character starts with.
If I was saving Gen. Darkeye, I'm pretty sure a couple of Static Shields would be enough (and more long lasting than a Unbreakable Shield).
I find Set+Luca+Static Shield enough for any character that ventures near a lot of enemies. So I don't see in Unbreakable Shield enough in results to make it a really useful attack to have in an ally.
I know some of you argue with me for the sake of argueing with me, but if you realy believe that Unbreakable Shield would be useful, then you would debate with Ertxiem too.
Nobody has made this personal so far, and nobody is arguing with you for the sake of arguing. Let's not turn a disagreement between several forum-goers into a personal attack against you.

I think that it is usefull- there are many times Set is not strong enough to allow the Main to withstand a turn of damage. In battles like the bandit cave, and the battles leading up to that, I found that the new AI causes all foes, including the bowman, to focus on the weakest tank unit, usually Duvalier for me. He would end up taking about 50 damage, and would then have to retreat and be healed. An unbreakable shield/ diamond shield would be helpful in this scenario; I could have set cast it, and then the all of the attackers would focus on Duvalier (because he has the lowest health and is essential), who would take no damage. If I had healed Duvalier, they would attack somebody else, who might also have been weakened. This move allows me to have one character draw enemy fire, while sustaining no damage.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 19, 2010, 11:34:48 AM
On the other hand, Mike has a point. It would open up the possibility for many new strategies, ones were your tank units won't have to come back every turn after heavy damage for healing. It's not just useful against bosses, but also against battles with areas crowded with enemies (most battles).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 19, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I think that it is usefull- there are many times Set is not strong enough to allow the Main to withstand a turn of damage. In battles like the bandit cave, and the battles leading up to that, I found that the new AI causes all foes, including the bowman, to focus on the weakest tank unit, usually Duvalier for me. He would end up taking about 50 damage, and would then have to retreat and be healed. An unbreakable shield/ diamond shield would be helpful in this scenario; I could have set cast it, and then the all of the attackers would focus on Duvalier (because he has the lowest health and is essential), who would take no damage. If I had healed Duvalier, they would attack somebody else, who might also have been weakened. This move allows me to have one character draw enemy fire, while sustaining no damage.
I doubt the enemies would attack anyone with "Unbreakable Shield" when most of the time they won't attack Grif's front due to his counter-attack.  Do you expect Craig to reprogram all enemy AI for an attack that serves the same purpose as Static Shield?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on August 19, 2010, 06:42:43 PM
Just quoting my idea so that it's in the correct thread.
[...]
Shield Crush. The caster creates a shield around his enemy, trapping him, and reduces his size, thereby crushing the enemy inside.
[...]

Regarding the Unbreakable Shield the enemy AI should be able to recognize that a character is unaffected by their attacks and decide to attack another of our allies (at least this should happen with the brutal difficulty).
In my opinion, the Unbreakable Shield haven't created enough consensus to be formulated (at least not for now). Perhaps someone in a couple of days has some new idea or brings up some new argument that makes a few of us change our minds.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 19, 2010, 07:00:03 PM
Regarding the Unbreakable Shield the enemy AI should be able to recognize that a character is unaffected by their attacks and decide to attack another of our allies (at least this should happen with the brutal difficulty).
I doubt the enemies would attack anyone with "Unbreakable Shield" when most of the time they won't attack Grif's front due to his counter-attack.  Do you expect Craig to reprogram all enemy AI for an attack that serves the same purpose as Static Shield?
I was thinking the AI would need no change at all, so they would attack the target they usually would, so you could anticipate this and put the shield on him. But, you guys are right, it doesn't make a ton of sense to add. Set already has a formidable arsenal anyways, so I am now neutral towards it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 19, 2010, 08:21:02 PM
I never said it's useful, just that it should be called Diamond Shield.
But, you guys are right, it doesn't make a ton of sense to add. Set already has a formidable arsenal anyways, so I am now neutral towards it.
Does anyone actually want Unbreakable Shield?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 19, 2010, 10:01:11 PM
I thought of a Static Shield would be useful for Psy Points.

Boost: Luca doesn't just supply Psy Points anymore. She now helps teammates focus to the point where they can store even more PsP.
Element: Mental
Range: 1 Space
Cost: Psy Power + Boost Level
Amount Transferred: (Psy Power + Boost Level)/2
Status Effects: Target's max PsP increases


An alternative for Boost could be the ability to increase a target's Psy Power. This could increase the damage of attacks, the potency of shields, and the amount of stored PsP. This form of Boost is similar to Fury.

Boost:
Range: 1 space
Cost: 6
Status Effect: Target's Psy Power increases by 1
I think Ertxiem (http://sinisterdesign.freepowerboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=21973#p21973) would agree
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 20, 2010, 12:30:29 AM
I'll third for Boost.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on August 20, 2010, 05:31:00 AM
I remember something like boost. (Checking the link... Oh. Now I remember why I remembered!)

I prefer the 1st version. It's more original in the sense that you can "get" the 2nd version with training.
To make things interesting, what if boost costed Luca some PsP and Health?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 20, 2010, 05:33:10 AM
Well...I guess it could be fair... but personally I prefer it costing just PsP.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 20, 2010, 08:08:08 AM
Boost: Luca doesn't just supply Psy Points anymore. She now helps teammates focus to the point where they can store even more PsP.
Element: Mental
Range: 1 Space
Cost: Psy Power + Boost Level
Amount Transferred: (Psy Power + Boost Level)/2
Status Effects: Target's max PsP increases
Why does the cost go up with the Psy power can skill?
Aside from that, which was likely just an error, i like the idea.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 20, 2010, 08:33:48 AM
I like it
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 20, 2010, 08:34:17 AM
Boost: Luca doesn't just supply Psy Points anymore. She now helps teammates focus to the point where they can store even more PsP.
Element: Mental
Range: 1 Space
Cost: Psy Power + Boost Level + 5
Amount Transferred: (Psy Power + Boost Level)/2
Status Effects: Target's max PsP increases
Ertxiem, is this better?  I don't think we can sacrifice Luca's health when she already is a low health teammate.

Why does the cost go up with the Psy power can skill?
Huh?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 20, 2010, 08:34:42 AM
I like it
The first or the second one?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 20, 2010, 08:36:13 AM
I like the second.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 20, 2010, 08:38:52 AM
The second one
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 20, 2010, 08:42:37 AM
An alternative for Boost could be the ability to increase a target's Psy Power. This could increase the damage of attacks, the potency of shields, and the amount of stored PsP. This form of Boost is similar to Fury.

Boost:
Range: 1 space
Cost: 6
Status Effect: Target's Psy Power increases by 1
Why the second one?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on August 20, 2010, 09:49:40 AM
Because I like the attack fury and that is what it is!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 20, 2010, 09:52:18 AM
Boost: Luca doesn't just supply Psy Points anymore. She now helps teammates focus to the point where they can store even more PsP.
Element: Mental
Range: 1 Space
Cost: Psy Power + Boost Level + 5
Amount Transferred: (Psy Power + Boost Level)/2
Status Effects: Target's max PsP increases
Ertxiem, is this better?  I don't think we can sacrifice Luca's health when she already is a low health teammate.

Why does the cost go up with the Psy power can skill?
Huh?
The cost for the move is [Psy Power+ Boost Level+5]. This means that as Psy pwer and skill increase, the move costs more than it transfers. It doesn't make sense that she looses Psp during the transfer. I didn't make any sense before, sorry 'bout that.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 20, 2010, 10:46:42 AM
The cost for the move is [Psy Power+ Boost Level+5]. This means that as Psy pwer and skill increase, the move costs more than it transfers. It doesn't make sense that she looses Psp during the transfer.
Transfer doesn't cost Luca any PsP other then what she gives away.  Unlike Transfer, Boost requires spent PsP to increase the focus power of the teammate.  I don't like the +5, but others have asked for it to cost Luca more PsP.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 20, 2010, 11:04:10 AM
I meant that every increase of psp power adds 1 point to the cost, but 1/2 point to the amount transferred
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 20, 2010, 12:18:39 PM
I meant that every increase of psp power adds 1 point to the cost, but 1/2 point to the amount transferred
Yes, and your point is?  The better Luca is at Transfer, the more she PsP she loses.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 20, 2010, 02:08:42 PM
Yes, but its an equal transfer- the cost= the amount given. This way, the cost is more than double the amount given. Where does the extra Psp go?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 20, 2010, 02:12:59 PM
Where does the extra Psp go?
Increasing a teammate's mental threshold cost PsP itself.  Boost is more than transfering PsP.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 20, 2010, 03:14:57 PM
True. Sorry for taking a while to really make my point. Must be having an off day  :P
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 25, 2010, 07:14:02 AM
Based on the poll's (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=616.0) results Boost 1 is the clear winner.  Does anyone think this attack shouldn't be formulated (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=209.0)?

Boost: Luca doesn't just supply Psy Points anymore. She now helps teammates focus to the point where they can store even more PsP.
Element: Mental
Range: 1 Space
Cost: Psy Power + Boost Level
Amount Transferred: (Psy Power + Boost Level)/2
Status Effects: Target's max PsP increases
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on August 25, 2010, 07:06:07 PM
In Transfer, Luca's Psy Point transfer is 100% effective. With Boost, 50% goes to boosting max PsP. How much does the target's max PsP go up by with this new ability?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on August 31, 2010, 05:48:46 AM
Methinks in its current state the Boost attack for Luca is a good one to add to her abilities- this way she can be of even greater help.
I like the fact that the PsP cost will increase accordingly and find the +5 factor a good starting point. This way it will not be overused, but then it could come in very handy if properly applied.

Let's hear it out folks, what say you on it? If enough agree, I'll make this idea formulated.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on August 31, 2010, 06:09:15 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on August 31, 2010, 07:41:51 AM
I suggested it, so I agree.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on August 31, 2010, 04:43:40 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on August 31, 2010, 05:05:00 PM
Agreed... I think. I'm still wondering how much the Target's max PsP goes up by. Is this "Amount Transferred"?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on August 31, 2010, 06:24:09 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on August 31, 2010, 08:06:16 PM
What about Ert's "Shield Crush"?

So, what about something in the lines of a Shield Crush. The caster creates a shield around his enemy, trapping him, and reduces his size, thereby crushing the enemy inside. Twisted! (And without the need of a new element - it's all about psy energy.)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 01, 2010, 09:14:35 AM
Ok, Boost just got formulated!

"Shiled Crush" is an interesting attack, kindly see here (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=611.15) for my suggestion on how to cirumvent the issue of interfering with enemy AI due to speed redutcion.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 01, 2010, 10:56:09 AM
I suspect that, unfortunately, im2smart4u is right here, and although such an attack would be interesting to have, I think that it might be too complicated to make.
Though, how about this solution- instead of the enemy, a solid-state shield like object appears in the place, with the same hp as the enemy unit, and it is treated as an enemy for a turn. Not sure how complicated would that be to implement, but it will be able to get rid of the issue of messing up the enemy AI, as it doesn't require tinkering with the enemy speed (the issue I do see is the problem of transferring hp of the enemy to the "blob" that replaces the said enemy).
Craig says he can only create four summons spaces.  One would be the soild-state shield and the other three spaces would be reserved for the Wood-Folk's new  pets.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 01, 2010, 11:01:06 AM
That doesn't mean he can't add in extra stuff. Plus if Gelf doesn't make the cut, it could be used in its place. Though, naturally, I'd rather see Gelf than this attack.

What of Griffin? Apart from us suggesting he have Whirlwind, should he have any extra attacks?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 01, 2010, 11:05:13 AM
What of Griffin? Apart from us suggesting he have Whirlwind, should he have any extra attacks?
Fury (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Fury)?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 01, 2010, 11:43:40 AM
Yep, that was thrown into the mix, back during the alpha stages, but Craig said back then that he might consider giving Fury to another teammate- the Spearman, if I remember rightly.
At least, even if Grffin doesn't get Fury, surely the Spearman could get it, in order to make him a more attractive and viable alternative as a "melee tank" to Grffin (the same balancing act as in TPA2, though there the Spearman was chosen over the Swordsman most of the time, judging by user comments).

What I do feel though, is that the Red Spriggat should definitely have more attacks than the ones a Red Spriggat has in TPA2 or the ones that Grotius used. (Yes, I see that Fire Gust got into formulated, but apart from that, are there any other, new, ideas, as Gust was around for ages?)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 01, 2010, 01:28:42 PM
What I do feel though, is that the Red Spriggat should definitely have more attacks than the ones a Red Spriggat has in TPA2 or the ones that Grotius used. (Yes, I see that Fire Gust got into formulated, but apart from that, are there any other, new, ideas, as Gust was around for ages?)
I think Fire Breath 2 and Fire Gust would cover all necessary attacks for the Red Spriggats.  Any more attacks and the Spriggat would be over powered.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 01, 2010, 03:48:53 PM
What about an Haste attack, that increases the Spriggat's speed by 1 (with cost equal to the current speed, as Flint had)?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 01, 2010, 04:35:42 PM
What about an Haste attack, that increases the Spriggat's speed by 1 (with cost equal to the current speed, as Flint had)?
That attack made sense for Flint, because his speed is very low and he can't fly.  This doesn't make sense for Spriggats, because their speed is already one higher than most humans and they also have the gift of flight. Haste would make spriggats too fast.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 01, 2010, 04:36:39 PM
With a limit, or without a limit? Say, the Spriggat learns to channel his natural Psy talents into gaining speed? That surely would be a lovely attack, for someone of assassin type. But in any case, that's a fresh idea- why not? This will certainly balance out the lack of much in terms of powerful attacks (a 2 tile attack can only be called an "area" attack on a technicality, and a linear, 3 tile attack is, effectively, the most basic area attack there is, with no status-effects, thus there isn't much to show for this unit over others for now).  But, on the other hand, as im2smart4u points out, the Spriggat is pretty fast already, plus there is a possibility of a Gelf pet being very fast indeed.
I, however, like where this is going- it's at least a very fresh look on what a Spriggat could have equipped. Because so far I don't really see much reason to use the Spriggat,save for the relatively high mobility (even there, he/she will lose out to a Shadowling with Shadow-port or an Assassin with Leap).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 01, 2010, 05:25:31 PM
We could impose a speed limit or raise the cost with speed in such a way that it would not be cost effective to raise the speed above a certain value.
I think that using haste once per battle is the right amount. Perhaps in some maps, using twice may be advantageous. More than that is too much.
The cost could be: 10*2s-6, with s being the current speed.
So, the cost starts at 10 and doubles after each usage: at speed 6, the cost would be 10; at speed 7, the cost would be 20; at speed 8, the cost would be 40, etc.

Another possible attack could be incineration, where the Red Spriggat causes severe burn damage to the enemy in front of him. Something like 3-4 times the damage of fire breath but only with range 1.


I find flying units quite useful and most of the time I don't use all their steps. In TPA2 I used many times the Spriggats as tanks (but not exclusively as tanks). So, I view them as a mix between the shadowlings and humans in terms of battlefield function.

I was thinking of the Spriggats and I thought about a new move for Arman - assisted leap. Arman jumps to a teammate, and he pushes Arman further away (say, 3 or 4 squares away from the initial position). It will be harder to code, since it requires one more check than the usual square where the jump ends: there must be an ally in front of Arman. On top of that, the animation should include both characters (meaning that if you agree with this idea, Craig will kill me and ban all the supporters).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 01, 2010, 05:35:01 PM
Interesting about the cost- I guess the discrepancy in cost values can be that the Spriggat, unlike Flint, is pushing himself to his physical limit with his Gift, and therefore requires a lot of strength. I like the idea, though then comes the question- will it be worth it? After all, a Spriggat's speed is pretty high, it is a flying unit, I don't really see an increase of 1 as an advantage at all, unlike with Flint, who was increasing his speed initially by up to 33%! Thus, I doubt people would use the attack that much.

Inicineration- a bit like Double Strike? I like that, though let's make it range 2- the standard/basic breathing range for all the elemental attacks. Then it would be worth using that on occaison. But the cost will need to balance it out- say in the region of 12 PsP?

Indeed, in TPA2 I used Spriggats and Shadowlings quite a lot- once I even had, apart from the Hero, a Shadowling/Spriggat only team, covering the 3 elements, plus the Hero was Light. Very mobile, very effective, though to balance things out I introduced a Healer and, on occaison, used a Spirit as well.

Heh, Craig would eat you alive for such a suggestion :P
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 01, 2010, 05:49:35 PM
Craig would agree (http://sinisterdesign.freepowerboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=27928#p27928) that with Spriggats' current attacks, they are already one of the most powerful classes available.

Pirouette- Luca uses her mysterious powers to rotate her friends or foes 180░.  This would help teammates face thier foes.  It would also make enemies vurnable to backstab.
Element: Spirit
Range: 2 Spaces
Cost: 5 Psy Points
Damage: No Damage
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 01, 2010, 05:58:51 PM
I remember that post, but there Craig specifically goes against the idea of huge area attacks- which is fair enough, but that still doesn't make the current attacks very powerful in comparison with area attacks available to humans and Shadowlings. Thus, the interesting attacks proposed by Ert will not fall into "huge area attacks" category, and they'll also give a reason for players to select a Spriggat over some other teammate.

Pirouette is an interesting idea, but I think it's too situational and it seems to me that in vast majority of cases, some other mode of action will be more favourable.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 01, 2010, 06:08:30 PM
I remember that post, but there Craig specifically goes against the idea of huge area attacks- which is fair enough, but that still doesn't make the current attacks very powerful in comparison with area attacks available to humans and Shadowlings. Thus, the interesting attacks proposed by Ert will not fall into "huge area attacks" category, and they'll also give a reason for players to select a Spriggat over some other teammate.
Craig said, "Their attacks are fairly powerful as it is."   This prior to Spriggats getting gust attacks.  To give spriggat too many attacks would be unreasonable.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 01, 2010, 06:12:37 PM
The gust attacks haven't been confirmed, plus most of the teammates are getting quite a few attacks anyways- why waste the space? Furthermore, a Spriggat as a class should somehow stand out from the rest of the crowd, but I don't think they have enough right now as it is to be fully rounded teammates yet.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 01, 2010, 06:23:48 PM
Interesting about the cost- I guess the discrepancy in cost values can be that the Spriggat, unlike Flint, is pushing himself to his physical limit with his Gift, and therefore requires a lot of strength. I like the idea, though then comes the question- will it be worth it? After all, a Spriggat's speed is pretty high, it is a flying unit, I don't really see an increase of 1 as an advantage at all, unlike with Flint, who was increasing his speed initially by up to 33%! Thus, I doubt people would use the attack that much.

Inicineration- a bit like Double Strike? I like that, though let's make it range 2- the standard/basic breathing range for all the elemental attacks. Then it would be worth using that on occaison. But the cost will need to balance it out- say in the region of 12 PsP?

Indeed, in TPA2 I used Spriggats and Shadowlings quite a lot- once I even had, apart from the Hero, a Shadowling/Spriggat only team, covering the 3 elements, plus the Hero was Light. Very mobile, very effective, though to balance things out I introduced a Healer and, on occaison, used a Spirit as well.

Heh, Craig would eat you alive for such a suggestion :P

We could either lower the base cost or raise the speed by +2, to make it more interesting. Perhaps the cost could halved, i.e., PsP cost=5s-6.

The range 2 version really has the advantage of being unique. Cost 12 seems OK to me.


I'm hoping that Craig doesn't visit this dark alley in the forums and that my suggestion quickly falls into oblivion... :)



I agree with KZ. The spriggat available attacks should be such that he's balanced with other teammates, so that many formations are viable. Hence it will all depend on what others teammates have and on the enemies we'll find.

An alternative effect of Pirouette would be the enemy becoming so dizzy that he couldn't defend properly, meaning that we got a backstab bonus the next turn (again, hard to code) or the enemy defence got reduced for one turn (once more hard to code) or for the rest of the battle (easier to code).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on September 01, 2010, 06:34:11 PM
I am against both the new spriggat attack and pirouette. Pirouette seems far to situational, and luca has a lot of attacks anyways. As for the spriggat attack, I dislike the idea of an upgrade to a current attack, because the system of attacks getting stronger with use could make the new attack abselete when you got it. I barely like Mega Shield, but Mega Shield is so strong that its almost impossible to have mind shield beat it. The thing is, its okay to have a really strong healing move, because it makes healing important and useful. Making the new attack strong enough that it wasn't redundant would overpower the spriggat.
However, the spriggat needs new moves, because so far he is lacking in just about every way to Malis (mobility, flying, area attack size, etc), so unless Craig allows the Spriggats stats to depend on your stats, I'll just ignore him in favor of Malis
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 01, 2010, 08:50:24 PM
However, the spriggat needs new moves, because so far he is lacking in just about every way to Malis (mobility, flying, area attack size, etc), so unless Craig allows the Spriggats stats to depend on your stats, I'll just ignore him in favor of Malis
What are you talking about? Spriggats fly just like Shadowlings.  Malis doesn't have an area attack, while spriggats have 2 to 3.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on September 02, 2010, 04:13:15 PM
My bad, with area of elemental attack I had thought Malis was going to get Dark Vortex for some reason. I think it was because I had just read a few posts about wether or not she should get it. But, considering how I level a lot in between missions, a larger EAA is the only thing the spriggat will have over Mails for me.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 02, 2010, 09:05:40 PM
But, considering how I level a lot in between missions, a larger EAA is the only thing the spriggat will have over Mails for me.
That is a big difference.  Spriggat attacks hit more spaces and causes more damage than a Psy Assassin's attacks.  This causes them to be used completely diffrently.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 03, 2010, 02:21:23 PM
Okay: about the coding for the assisted Leap. As a programmer, I don't know exactly how Craig codes his battle movieClip, but I would think he has a field object, a general game computations and testing zone object, player objects, enemy objects, and tile objects, all with certain properties. All he would have to do would be put in a getter event and method that would tell the player character object if there was an Ally in the right place.

However, as I would still like not to have been eaten alive, I would like to add in that if he has a different object setup that works for him, it might not be as easy as that.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 03, 2010, 02:59:28 PM
In any case, I think it's worth thinking about what else to add to the Spriggat arsenal, apart from large area attacks.
Any ideas, folks?

Not sure if I even like the idea, but we could have the Psy equivalent of Fury, whereby the Spriggat gets enrgaed, and since his attacks are partly body-based, with a bit of the Gift to guide the shots, this will allow the Spriggat to make a more damaging blow by increasing Psy Power by 1. Useful, methinks.
Or have a special, expensive, Fire Breath 3 with range 1-4.


PS
Let's not be too afraid of Craig turning cannibal on us and, without fear, keep on suggesting interesting things ;)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on September 03, 2010, 03:29:43 PM
But, considering how I level a lot in between missions, a larger EAA is the only thing the spriggat will have over Mails for me.
That is a big difference.  Spriggat attacks hit more spaces and causes more damage than a Psy Assassin's attacks.  This causes them to be used completely diffrently.
So far, only two more spaces for Fire Breath 2, and 3 more for fire gust, which hasn't been added yet. Also, as I said, I often level to the point where new characters are really far behind.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 03, 2010, 05:18:00 PM
[...]
Not sure if I even like the idea, but we could have the Psy equivalent of Fury, whereby the Spriggat gets enrgaed, and since his attacks are partly body-based, with a bit of the Gift to guide the shots, this will allow the Spriggat to make a more damaging blow by increasing Psy Power by 1. Useful, methinks.
Or have a special, expensive, Fire Breath 3 with range 1-4.
[...]

These attacks make sense, even if they're not much different from the existing ones.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 03, 2010, 09:50:35 PM
I thought of an attack for Rahel as we haven't come up with any attacks for her yet.

Arrow Storm
Rahel has learned how to fire mutliple arrows at once and get them to split aswell.

Range:
OOXOXOO
OXOXOXO
OOXOXOO
OOOOOOO
OOOROOO
R=Rahel (Facing Up) O= Unaffected Space X= Affected Space

Cost: 15
Damage: Strength + Arrow Storm Level + (Psy Power/2)
Prerequisites: Power: 15, Psy Power: 10
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 04, 2010, 04:27:48 AM
Air Blast
As it turns out, [Spriggat's name] learned that after long, laborious days training his wing muscles, and learning to control the Gift, he found out could flap his wings much stronger than before, making a very powerful gust of wind. Combined with his telekinetic powers, he could push enemies a distance away and make them trip on their feet, leaving them vunerable for attack. So that [Spriggat's name] doesn't fly back when he beats his wings in such a fashion, he learned to make a air cushion behind him using the Gift. Such a powerful attack is very energy-consuming, however.
Range: 1 space in front
Cost: 6
Damage: Strength + air blast level - 12
Effect: Pushes enemy back 1 space
Prerequisites: Strength: 15, Psy Power: 10

Thoughts, guys?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 04, 2010, 06:48:44 AM
I thought of an attack for Rahel as we haven't come up with any attacks for her yet.

Arrow Storm
Rahel has learned how to fire mutliple arrows at once and get them to split aswell.

Range:
OOXOXOO
OXOXOXO
OOXOXOO
OOOOOOO
OOOROOO
R=Rahel (Facing Up) O= Unaffected Space X= Affected Space

Cost: 15
Damage: Strength + Arrow Storm Level + (Psy Power/2)
Prerequisites: Power: 15, Psy Power: 10
I like it. And I like the cost too. What attacks would she need to level to get it though?
Air Blast
As it turns out, our Spriggat teammate (what's his name again?) learned that after long, laborious days training his wing muscles, he could flap his wings much stronger than before, making a very powerful gust of wind. Combined with his telekinetic powers, he was strong enough to knock people off their feet.
Range: 1 space in front
Cost: 5
Damage: Strength + air blast level - 12
Effect: Stuns enemy for 1 turn
Recharge time: 2 turns
Prerequisites: Strength: 15, Psy Power: 10

Thoughts, guys?
I don't really like it. How would a blast of air stun an enemy?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 04, 2010, 08:03:31 AM
I thought of an attack for Rahel as we haven't come up with any attacks for her yet.

Arrow Storm
Rahel has learned how to fire mutliple arrows at once and get them to split aswell.

Range:
OOXOXOO
OXOXOXO
OOXOXOO
OOOOOOO
OOOROOO
R=Rahel (Facing Up) O= Unaffected Space X= Affected Space

Cost: 15
Damage: Strength + Arrow Storm Level + (Psy Power/2)
Prerequisites: Power: 15, Psy Power: 10
I like it. And I like the cost too. What attacks would she need to level to get it though?
Air Blast
As it turns out, our Spriggat teammate (what's his name again?) learned that after long, laborious days training his wing muscles, he could flap his wings much stronger than before, making a very powerful gust of wind. Combined with his telekinetic powers, he was strong enough to knock people off their feet.
Range: 1 space in front
Cost: 5
Damage: Strength + air blast level - 12
Effect: Stuns enemy for 1 turn
Recharge time: 2 turns
Prerequisites: Strength: 15, Psy Power: 10

Thoughts, guys?
I don't really like it. How would a blast of air stun an enemy?
The enemy would fall down, and be dizzy. The time it would take him to get back up would cost him one turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on September 04, 2010, 08:10:46 AM
I am for both ideas, except
A) the cost for Arrow Storm is a bit high, even for such a potent attack. Maybe 12 would be more feasable?
B) Does a recharge time for Air Blast work with the current system? Its a good attack, but probably not so much worth editing the battle system.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 04, 2010, 08:20:00 AM
I am for both ideas, except
A) the cost for Arrow Storm is a bit high, even for such a potent attack. Maybe 12 would be more feasable?
B) Does a recharge time for Air Blast work with the current system? Its a good attack, but probably not so much worth editing the battle system.
I asked Craig (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=31.300) to find out.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 04, 2010, 09:18:54 AM
Arrow Storm?  Can you imagen Rahel simultaneously notching 7 arrows with her one short bow?  It wouldn't be possible even with psy powers.
Air Blast?  Wouldn't sending a gust of wind forward with wings send the Spriggat flying backwards (and possble stunning himself)?  the stunning effect isn't possible because Craig won't create attacks that mess with enemy AI.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 04, 2010, 09:24:40 AM
Arrow Storm?  Can you imagen Rahel simultaneously notching 7 arrows with her one short bow?  It wouldn't be possible even with psy powers.
Air Blast?  Wouldn't sending a gust of wind forward with wings send the Spriggat flying backwards (and possble stunning himself)?  the stunning effect isn't possible because Craig won't create attacks that mess with enemy AI.
I asked him if it would mess with enemy AI. I'm awaiting a response. And no, it wouldn't send him flying backwards. He was trained for that not to happen. And also, there are also lots of other 'unimaginable' attacks that are in TSoG. I'm assuming you don't, but do you like the ideas?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 04, 2010, 09:56:41 AM
And no, it wouldn't send him flying backwards. He was trained for that not to happen.
He was trained to cancel Newton's Third Law?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 04, 2010, 10:03:58 AM
He flaps his wings in a way that doesn't have much effect on him. There are, like I said before, lots of other impossible attacks in TSoG. And keep in mind that the story is set in Cera Bella: Some of the laws of physics may not apply. I won't discuss this further.

EDIT: I'd like to know clearly who likes or doesn't like Arrow Storm and Air Blast.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 10:18:58 AM
Although the area covered by Rahel's attack is interesting, I am not sure if she needs any more attacks - I think she's probably the most complete teammate we have so far (now that she can shoot an occaisonal range 4 attack as well).

Now, about Air Storm- actually, Cypher, no laws of physics are being broken in the Cera Bella universe, in fact, we gho out of the way to ensure that there is some kind of plausible explanation, albeit invoking the gift as the deux ex machina to explain everything away. The Spriggat will fly backwards if he tries to blow someone out of the way. However, one could say that he/she can also be trained in using the Gift to create an air cushion behind them such that they're not blown out of the way, whilst an enemy is (a bit like a turbine in a tunnel- it remains fixed in space, but blows air through).
Effectively, this is simply a different application of the idea about giving Set a semi-offensive attack.

Actually, with one modification  I'm sold ont his idea: instead of stunning the enemy, you move the enemy backwards one step- effectively knocking them over. This avoids messing with the enemy AI and may possibly be easier to implement. you can move, for instance, an enemy out of the way if he/she is blocking the passage and cannot be killed in one go. It could be used to force an enemy into a backstab-approachable position, or prevent the enemies from moving by playing an enemy who goes last in their way. Highly versatile, highly useful, and that something little extra which, although not giving a Spriggat extra strength, might be this extra factor in the Spriggat's favour- like before they had no answer to the Shadow-port, well- this is an assymetric, but potentially highly useful reply. I'm very much for this idea.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 04, 2010, 10:25:05 AM
I'm glad you like it ;D. Thanks for the constructive criticism. I made a few changes to the attack description.
Here's the new version:
Air Blast
As it turns out, [Spriggat's name] learned that after long, laborious days training his wing muscles, and learning to control the Gift, he found out could flap his wings much stronger than before, making a very powerful gust of wind. Combined with his telekinetic powers, he could push enemies a distance away and make them trip on their feet, leaving them vunerable for attack. So that [Spriggat's name] doesn't fly back when he beats his wings in such a fashion, he learned to make a air cushion behind him using the Gift. Such a powerful attack is very energy-consuming, however.
Range: 1 space in front
Cost: 6
Damage: Strength + air blast level - 12
Effect: Pushes enemy back 1 space
Prerequisites: Strength: 15, Psy Power: 10

Thoughts, guys?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 04, 2010, 10:40:18 AM
I am for both ideas, except
A) the cost for Arrow Storm is a bit high, even for such a potent attack. Maybe 12 would be more feasable?

True-Shaft hits only one space and it costs 10. Although it doesn't do much damage as Trueshaft. It would take up a lot of PsP to use.

Bugfartboy: I was thinking you would need Spit Shot 2 Level 2
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 10:40:27 AM
I'd suggest removing any recharge time- that's not really in Telepath style. Apart from that, I think the damage formula is fair (-12, to ensure very small damage is dealt). Costs seems fair, so do the suggested levels required for obtaining it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 04, 2010, 10:43:42 AM
I editted my previous post but I was thinking: Split Shot 2 (Level 2)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 04, 2010, 10:45:55 AM
Recharge time has been removed. Hope this makes it the the formulated thread ;) I'm curious to see how many more people will agree/disagree...
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 10:55:49 AM
Mmm, Zackirus, what exactly do you see in terms of Split Shot 2 (level 2)? Why not have Split Shot level 3?
Still, I am not sure if Rahel needs any more attacks now that she has trueshaft.

Let's see indeed how "Air Blast" fares (maybe another name for it?).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 04, 2010, 11:01:49 AM
Yes but Trueshaft is a one tile while Arrow Storm takes up many tiles and having it take Split Shot 2 Level Three is fine. Although KZ, are you: yay or nay for the idea.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on September 04, 2010, 11:29:23 AM
With the edits, escpecially for Air Blast, I give my vote for both.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 04, 2010, 11:36:10 AM
I give my vote as "yes" already, but if not many other people are, then that probably means some revision is in store.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 11:37:44 AM
Just to clarify: zackirus, did you simply re-name the attack into Split Shot 3, right?
Well, I wouldn't mind seeing it, though I do have trouble imagining how she'd be able to fire off so many, and what the cost will be, etc.
If people are not giving straight yes/no answers, chances are, the idea may be interesting, but modifications/alterations are required.

(I am keeping track of what people are suggesting and for what- things have been going pleasantly fast lately!)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 04, 2010, 11:42:55 AM
I forgot the two, Opps! I am very glad to see that most people like my idea.

Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 04, 2010, 11:46:46 AM
How is Craig going to animate Rahel notching 7 arrows?  Look at split shot 2, there isn't room for a fourth arrow to be fired.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 11:48:23 AM
And what do you think of the "air blast" with new modifications?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 04, 2010, 11:59:43 AM
OOSOSOO
OTOTOTO
OOFOFOO
OOOOOOO
OOOROOO

I was thinking that she would fire arrows in three different waves. She would hit the Fs first, then hit the Ss with 2 arrows, and finally, she would fire three arrows hitting the Ts.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 12:03:45 PM
Effectively, what you're suggesting is a triple attack? Well, I think having a double attack would yet be credible- what with her using her Gift to speed up the process and training up, she might be able to hit 5 spots- using Split shot followed by Split Shot 2. But I think if this attack makes it into the game, it should be towards the end: the ultimate ranged physical area attack, so to speak. Under these conditions, I wouldn't mind at all seeing this attack in the game, as long as it's balanced by a very high PsP cost (circa 15-18) and requires high strength and psy power level.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 04, 2010, 12:05:09 PM
And what do you think of the "air blast" with new modifications?
It is alot better.  I am not thrilled about, but I won't fight it.  I chose to not vote yay or nay for formulation.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 04, 2010, 12:08:05 PM
I'm hoping some of you could suggest a couple of new names for 'Air Blast'... I don't like the name myself, to tell the truth, but I couldn't come up with a better name...
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 04, 2010, 12:11:10 PM
Arrow Storm

Rahel has learned how to fire mutliple arrows in a quick secession

Range:
OOXOXOO
OXOXOXO
OOXOXOO
OOOOOOO
OOOROOO
R=Rahel (Facing Up) O= Unaffected Space X= Affected Space

Spoiler
OOSOSOO
OTOTOTO
OOFOFOO
OOOOOOO
OOOROOO

I was thinking that she would fire arrows in three different waves. She would hit the Fs first, then hit the Ss with 2 arrows, and finally, she would fire three arrows hitting the Ts.

Cost: 16
Damage: Strength + Arrow Storm Level + (Psy Power/2)
Prerequisites: Power: 17, Psy Power: 12

Is everyone in agreeance for these stats?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 04, 2010, 12:13:01 PM
Arrow Storm

Rahel has learned how to fire mutliple arrows in a quick secession

Range:
OOXOXOO
OXOXOXO
OOXOXOO
OOOOOOO
OOOROOO
R=Rahel (Facing Up) O= Unaffected Space X= Affected Space

Spoiler
OOSOSOO
OTOTOTO
OOFOFOO
OOOOOOO
OOOROOO

I was thinking that she would fire arrows in three different waves. She would hit the Fs first, then hit the Ss with 2 arrows, and finally, she would fire three arrows hitting the Ts.

Cost: 16
Damage: Strength + Arrow Storm Level + (Psy Power/2)
Prerequisites: Power: 17, Psy Power: 12

Is everyone in agreeance for these stats?
I agree.
I'm hoping some of you could suggest a couple of new names for 'Air Blast'... I don't like the name myself, to tell the truth, but I couldn't come up with a better name...
Any names?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 12:16:34 PM
In that case, those who wish not to vote will simply not be included in the vote count ('cause giving 1/2 will make 2 neutral people support the idea and giving nothing will be rejecting the idea).
Then so far we have 4 "yay" 1 "nay" 1 "neutral" vote for "air blast". Certainly need much more input to make it clear if this will get formulated. Thus kindly do vote, folks!

I agree, Cypher, I also don't really like the name, but so far an alterantive is eluding me. Can anyone suggest a better name?

The, well, many-arrows idea has  4 "yay", 1 "nay, 1 "neutral" as well.



PS
I am not sold on the triple attack on the arrow storm- a double attack can be credible, with a lot of effort- otherwise this can be a bit too much.

XXX
XOX
OOO
ORO

How about that with same notation?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 04, 2010, 12:20:31 PM
OOSOSOO
OTOTOTO
OOFOFOO
OOOOOOO
OOOROOO

I was thinking that she would fire arrows in three different waves. She would hit the Fs first, then hit the Ss with 2 arrows, and finally, she would fire three arrows hitting the Ts.
Why does she get to do three attacks in one turn, while every other charcter only gets one attack?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 04, 2010, 12:32:04 PM
Why does she get to do three attacks in one turn, while every other charcter only gets one attack?
Well Griffin does get to do a double attack (with Double slash).
PS
I am not sold on the triple attack on the arrow storm- a double attack can be credible, with a lot of effort- otherwise this can be a bit too much.

XXX
XOX
OOO
ORO

How about that with same notation?

It think it would cost less than 16 if you are only going to fire 5 arrows. I'm thinking around 13/14?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 12:44:51 PM
Exactly what I had in mind about Griffin.
Well, the counter to high PsP is that Trueshaft costs 10 PsP, so firing 5 arrows very quickly should also be quite costly, so that people don't overuse the attack. Ok, say 14-15 PsP. What do you think, folks?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 04, 2010, 12:47:10 PM
15 sounds good for a powerful attack like that. I'm in favor.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 04, 2010, 12:49:57 PM
I vote yay on the matter of arrow storm. I agree on the cost as well.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 12:56:47 PM
And what of modified air blast, bugfartboy?


Ok, thanks folks- I'm adding up the votes.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 04, 2010, 01:01:30 PM
I really don't like it. But I guess I'll vote Yay just because I think the Red Spriggat will need more diversity from one attack to another.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 01:04:36 PM
Ok then, so you're voting yay "for the greater good", effectively?
This then brings up 5/5 yes, and one abstained for "Air Blast". Let's get more feedback on that one before that might get formalised.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 04, 2010, 02:36:06 PM
Why does she get to do three attacks in one turn, while every other charcter only gets one attack?
Well Griffin does get to do a double attack (with Double slash).
[/quote]Griffin strikes in one direction and quickly spins in the other direction.  Double Slash takes as much time as Split Shot.  Your suggested attack with is like firing Split Shot three times, which is way too long for an attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 04, 2010, 04:05:12 PM
What about firing split shot twice? Would that make sense?
Maybe have a Split shot followed by a "control" trueshaft?
OXO
OOO
XOX
OOO
ORO

Thoughts?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 04, 2010, 05:39:50 PM
What about firing split shot twice? Would that make sense?
Maybe have a Split shot followed by a "control" trueshaft?
OXO
OOO
XOX
OOO
ORO

Thoughts?
Rahel shouldn't continuely notch, draw, and fire arrow after arrow for one attack.  That sounds like several attacks.

Attack 1:
OXO
OOO
OOO
OOO
ORO

Split Shot:
OOO
OOO
XOX
OOO
ORO
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 04, 2010, 05:40:47 PM
I like the air blast for the Spriggat. Perhaps a better name would be jet stream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_stream) or Levanter (http://ggweather.com/winds.html) or Aejej (http://www.windlegends.org/windnames.htm). (I also thought about wind tunnel but where is the tunnel?)

I'm in favour of Rahel having a new area attack. However, hitting only 3 places seems not enough (we already have one attack hitting 3 places) and hitting 7 places seems too much (in my opinion). I usually prefer nice symmetric shapes and I tend to see them as easier to make regularly than shapes with less symmetry.

I recall a suggestion of (arrow rain?) an arrow area attack x shaped, hitting 5 squares simultaneously.
OXOXO
OOXOO
OXOXO
OOOOO
OOROO

What do you think about it?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 04, 2010, 09:34:59 PM
I like the air blast for the Spriggat. Perhaps a better name would be jet stream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_stream) or Levanter (http://ggweather.com/winds.html) or Aejej (http://www.windlegends.org/windnames.htm). (I also thought about wind tunnel but where is the tunnel?)

I'm in favour of Rahel having a new area attack. However, hitting only 3 places seems not enough (we already have one attack hitting 3 places) and hitting 7 places seems too much (in my opinion). I usually prefer nice symmetric shapes and I tend to see them as easier to make regularly than shapes with less symmetry.

I recall a suggestion of (arrow rain?) an arrow area attack x shaped, hitting 5 squares simultaneously.
OXOXO
OOXOO
OXOXO
OOOOO
OOROO

What do you think about it?
I vote yay. I guess arrow storm is a bit much for a single attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Steelfist on September 04, 2010, 10:03:40 PM
Combo Slash; really just an advanced version of double slash, striking three times.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 04, 2010, 10:08:26 PM
Damage? Cost? Prerequisites?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 05, 2010, 12:05:14 AM
Yay for arrow rain. I think 'Jet Stream' sounds best. There is no need for 'Combo slash': Double Slash is already powerful enough, don't you think?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 05, 2010, 06:18:34 AM
Who knows? I vote nay on Combo Slash. We may want that space for something more original instead of an upgraded version of something already there.
Spoiler
Nay! Nay! Nay! Nay! (I'm a horsy!) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 05, 2010, 07:16:50 AM
Does everybody agree on the name 'Jet Stream'?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 05, 2010, 09:54:16 AM
Ehh. I don't know about the name. Unless someone has a better idea, I'm cool with it. That's a Yay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 05, 2010, 06:06:33 PM
Combo Slash; really just an advanced version of double slash, striking three times.
Do you mean Double Strike (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Double_Strike)? And you're suggesting triple strike?
I don't think triple strike is an interesting attack.

However, if you're suggesting a Double Slash (http://Slash), that I would think it's interesting, striking up to 3 enemies and dealing double damage.

Alternatively, Griffin could attack left and right simultaneously (I recall this one being suggested before) perhaps using 2 swords or in a big movement:
XXX
XGX
G - Griffin, facing North (up)
X - attacked spaces
It could also be an attack where Griffin attacks from his back to his front, passing through is right side (same image as above, but with Griffin facing West (right).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on September 05, 2010, 06:18:04 PM
Attacking left and right simultaneously in the manner that you suggested seems to be like an incomplete whirlwind to me. I don't to much care for that. Striking up to 3 enemies and dealing double damage sounds better to me.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 05, 2010, 06:29:04 PM
Here is where I repost an idea that was in the wrong place:
I think another thing I would like to see would be like a training center where Malis can learn a very secret ability like umm... the AI controled Psi Copy suggested in another topic. It could be called the Shadowlings Shadow.

"Malis was experimenting with Shadow Blast and discovered that she could make a perfect copy of herself by rearranging gobules of negative energy. Curious, she added more and more negative energy to the form until she could no more. The resulting image seemed to have a mind of it's own. However she discovered that after a small amount of time it vanished in a small blast of shadow."

What do you think? It could have a small amount Malis's health and power and there could only be one. Anyone like?  :) :) :)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 05, 2010, 11:48:08 PM
Before moving on, I'd just like to make sure that you have all voted on Jet Stream/Air Blast.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 07:45:41 AM
I vote Nay.

Sorry, but I have to vote nay on something.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 06, 2010, 09:15:49 AM
Why nay?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 10:36:35 AM
Ok, folks, what with your unfortunate recent spur of changing your usernames, it's been a tad difficult to follow who's been voting for what. However, for the "Jet Stream/Air Blast" idea, we have 6 "yay" and 1 "abstain". Thus, it goes into formulated.

For arrow storm, can all those who voted, vote again, as the area of the attack has been re-suggested many a time. Myself, I would support an attack of about 5 tiles, but it has to be animated in a plausible fashion, and then, how can you explain Rahel being so fast (the Gift?), etc!


Ert: I believe the double Slash has been suggested before (the praying mantis), but I think it was ultimately rejected for Griffin, with people instead wanting him to have Whirlwind.


Shadowling Shadow: I think it's too close to Solid State Shield and the extra teammates brought on by Gelf (if that makes it in)- thus that might not be ideal, but a moving decoy is an interesting idea nevertheless.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 06, 2010, 10:38:00 AM
Yay for arrow storm.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 06, 2010, 10:40:46 AM

Shadowling Shadow: I think it's too close to Solid State Shield and the extra teammates brought on by Gelf (if that makes it in)- thus that might not be ideal, but a moving decoy is an interesting idea nevertheless.
I was thinking along the lines of it having very low health, low damage and on a timer so, instead of the timer saying how long it's survived, it would say how long it has left.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 06, 2010, 10:44:35 AM
For arrow storm, can all those who voted, vote again, as the area of the attack has been re-suggested many a time. Myself, I would support an attack of about 5 tiles, but it has to be animated in a plausible fashion, and then, how can you explain Rahel being so fast (the Gift?), etc!
I don't think the animating is possible and I don't think the attack is necessary. Nay.

Ert: I believe the double Slash has been suggested before (the praying mantis), but I think it was ultimately rejected for Griffin, with people instead wanting him to have Whirlwind.
Twin Slash would be okay for a boss, but lets stick with Slash and Whirlwind for Griffin. Nay.

Shadowling Shadow: I think it's too close to Solid State Shield and the extra teammates brought on by Gelf (if that makes it in)- thus that might not be ideal, but a moving decoy is an interesting idea nevertheless.
Shadow clones? Really? Nay!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 06, 2010, 11:03:31 AM
Arrow Storm: Yay

Twin Slash: Nay

Shadowling Clone: Nay
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 11:07:03 AM
Ditto.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 06, 2010, 11:11:44 AM
I recall a suggestion of (arrow rain?) an arrow area attack x shaped, hitting 5 squares simultaneously.
OXOXO
OOXOO
OXOXO
OOOOO
OOROO

What do you think about it?
How does she shoot two arrows farther then she can shoot one at a time?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 11:15:01 AM
Because arrows that have had the Gift used up them are super-sensitive to megnetism, and leap towards the poles of the earth. Do you have a better explanation?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 11:16:34 AM
because it is less accurate, which is why she shoots two, she can shoot one that far, but she doesn't risk it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 06, 2010, 11:28:08 AM
Because arrows that have had the Gift used up them are super-sensitive to megnetism, and leap towards the poles of the earth. Do you have a better explanation?
What if she shoots east or west?

because it is less accurate, which is why she shoots two, she can shoot one that far, but she doesn't risk it.
But won't it hit the same squares every time?  Doesn't that mean she shoot five arrows accruately, but unable to shoot one arrow accruately?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 11:30:10 AM
No, she knows tha they will branch so she shoots them straight and next to each other but aims at the center.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 11:41:09 AM
Ok, "Twin Slash" and "Shadow Clones" got 1/5 and 0/4 support, so methinks they shall be dropped for now.
(Voted nay in both cases- twin slash might be good for an animal, not for griffin. Shadow Clones will likely require tampering with the code and there are attacks which are pretty similar.)

Arrow Storm: I am still not decicded until a viable explanation is given to the attack.
I can see the attack coming in two waves, but not three- that's just too much to do in one turn, methinks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 06, 2010, 11:41:30 AM
No, she knows tha they will branch so she shoots them straight and next to each other but aims at the center.
That makes no sense.

Quote
No problem, arguing is one of my favorite things to do
Then you should should have lots of fun with im2smart4u (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?action=pm#msg1282)
He argues a lot. I present this statement neither as a compliment nor a detriment to his/her moral character.
I know you guys obsess over me, but lets try to keep the conversation about "New attacks for teammates".
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 11:43:39 AM
Mmm, so far I am not convinced by the explanation, sorry! Maybe change the attack area somehow?


OK, im2smart4u- removed the irrelevant posts. I kinldly ask no one else to comment on that second part of the statement. Thank you.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 11:43:53 AM
It does, she has a double stringed bow, and can tilt arrows just slightly so that they hook in opposite directions.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 11:45:18 AM
So, she fires arrow simultaneously, but in different directions?
She has a single string on her bow, actually.

The only way I see it working is that if the attack area is changes such that it is a composite of 2 attacks which she already knows- this way, she might be able to use the Gift to simply perform two attacks very fast- like Griffin with 2 melee attacks making Double Strike.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 11:47:38 AM
I was this close to commenting on that.  Sorry about the off-topic posts you had to remove.

Now that she has greater prerequisite stats for the move, she can shoot farther. Is this explanation satisfactory?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 06, 2010, 12:13:45 PM
I think that she could shoot the the first three arrows and then shoot the last two arrows. It makes sense.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 01:35:28 PM
Perhaps everyone's right that pounce is going to be hard to code, so I'm deciding to put it here.

Damage=strength+level+2
Damage to self = 1/4(rounded up) level+1
Is that alright with everyone?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on September 06, 2010, 02:44:56 PM
This is new attacks for teammates. Which teammate would use this?
We could continue to discuss it in the enemy ideas thread, or you could ask Craig about its viability.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 02:51:35 PM
Sorry I forgot about aarman ( I think that if it's not for a cat then it needs a new name. Any Ideas?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 06, 2010, 02:52:36 PM
[...]
For arrow storm, can all those who voted, vote again, as the area of the attack has been re-suggested many a time. Myself, I would support an attack of about 5 tiles, but it has to be animated in a plausible fashion, and then, how can you explain Rahel being so fast (the Gift?), etc!


Ert: I believe the double Slash has been suggested before (the praying mantis), but I think it was ultimately rejected for Griffin, with people instead wanting him to have Whirlwind.


Shadowling Shadow: I think it's too close to Solid State Shield and the extra teammates brought on by Gelf (if that makes it in)- thus that might not be ideal, but a moving decoy is an interesting idea nevertheless.

What if arrow storm is 1 square closer to Rahel and it hits 6 squares instead?
OXXXO
OXXXO
OOOOO
OOROO
R - Rahel

The animation is like split shot 2 (shooting 3 arrows) repeated twice at different ranges.
The explanation is more or less the same as split shot 1 (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Split_Shot) and 2 (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Split_Shot_2), but after gaining some experience and with some training she can do it faster. I still prefer the x shape, though, even if the explanation is not that good.


Oh, that right! The praying mantis did the left and right slash.
However, I also suggested double slash: Griffin hits his right front side twice.
OXX
OGX
OOO
G - Griffin, facing North


Shadowling shadow: nay. Sorry.


Perhaps I missed the point, but why would pounce be interesting to have when we already have Mega Stab (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Mega_Stab) (that doesn't do self damage)?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 02:55:07 PM
Arrow storm: Yay, no matter what it turns out to be.

Shadow duplicate: Nay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 02:57:45 PM
Arrow storm: yay.

Neuteral for the rest.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 03:23:05 PM
Ok, for arrowstorm we have so far 4 yay and 1 nay.
Ert- can I take that as a yay vote then?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 03:39:25 PM
stealth knife

Aarman like pounce
Damage=strength+level+2
Damage to self = 1/4(rounded up) level+1

OOEOO
OOOOO
OOAOO

A=aarman
E=enemy

then

OOXOO
OOAOO
OOOOO

A=aarman

maybe move should be two spaces, any thoughts?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 03:41:27 PM
Methinks that we already agreed to a "shove" type attack for a Spriggat- should we really have a duplicate to negate such a unique feature?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 03:42:50 PM
how so?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 03:46:45 PM
Ah, my apologies, I misread "shove" and "move".
Such an attack was proposed on older formus, but for some reason didn't go through. Personally,I like the idea and supported it back then- "a ranged" attack, so to speak. But maybe also ensure that after attack, he jumps back to the tile he previously occupied, otherwise we'll have a pretty pointless combination, since the same can be done with Leap and Stab.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 03:49:40 PM
stealth knife

Aarman like pounce
Damage=strength+level+2
Damage to self = 1/4(rounded up) level+1

OOEOO
OOOOO
OOAOO

A=aarman
E=enemy

then

OOXOO
OOAOO
OOOOO

A=aarman

OOEOO
OOOOO
OOAOO

A=Aarman
E=enemy (if alive0

aarman moves back when it's his turn to move, until then he can be hit where he stands
Is that more to your liking, I really want this to pull through, it just seems so cool.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 03:52:18 PM
It's "Arman", by the way ;)

Let's also not forget the controversial "arrow rain" idea- see what people think, and what area of attack people should settle on!

Why not:

XXX
XOX
OOO
ORO

This way, split shot and split shot 2 combine to give a pretty unique and useful area (e.g. for row enemy formations, lining up against an obstacle, etc)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 06, 2010, 04:09:49 PM
KZ, do you really think Rahel needs another attack?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 04:13:10 PM
Honestly? Not really- I stated before that I think she's the most complete teammate to date, and I think that her attacks will remain relevant throughout the entire game through all the difficulties.

However, this attack seems to be relatievly popular, thus I am at least trying to suggest a form which is least disbalancing. Plus there is that argument that there isn't really a proper area attack for any of the teammates apart from Duvalier (I'll be content if Griffin gets his Whirlwind and Rahel doesn't get this extra attack).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 04:52:36 PM
What do people think of stealth knife, I'm itching to know, I of course vote yay on the revised version.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 04:54:32 PM
I definitely don't like the "damage to self" part- he has no issues with making Leap, and he should be able to handle the knife well enough in order to not hurt himself.
If that gets removed, then it's a "yay" from me.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 04:56:11 PM
Very well, no damage to self, I did thatjust in case it was too powerful but now that I think of it that was pretty stupid.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 06, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
What do people think of stealth knife, I'm itching to know, I of course vote yay on the revised version.
People have suggested Lunge and Fling before and it was shot down because no one saw the need for a ranged attack when Arman's speed was so great.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 05:01:08 PM
True but it makes for a powerful first strike, is yours a yay or a nay?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 06, 2010, 05:03:24 PM
I want to hear more opinions before I vote for or against the attack.


I don't know if I can do this, but "Nay" on the attack name of "stealth knife".
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 06, 2010, 05:06:26 PM
I vote yay for stealth knife. Arman needs some diverse offensive moves. 3 of them are practically the same and leap is a neutral.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 06, 2010, 05:07:11 PM
I like the arrow rain idea, but I don't like the empty spot in the middle:
XXX
XOX
OOO
ORO

I'm not too keen on the stealth knife. It's not too unique. It works like a stronger bow shot or spear throw.

What if Arman had a jump'n'stab attack that allows him to move afterwards.

Before
AEO

After
OEA

Armans jumps over the enemy, quickly stabs him while in the air, gaining thrust to reach the other side of the enemy, still able to move on or attack again.
The damage would not be too high, perhaps close to knife (this move is to finish off an enemy and escape from the other enemies nearby).
Cost: 12 PsP and 2 movement steps.
Perhaps the engine isn't prepared to decrease the number of steps after an attack...
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 05:07:51 PM
Very well, I commend your commitment to being well informed.@im2smatr4u
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 06, 2010, 05:09:24 PM
I wouldn't mind having such an attack- I think it will fall into the same class as backhander: not used that often, as it is situational, but can come in really handy. For instance, with this Arman lunge attack, he can attack from a spot which is not as exposed to enemy attack, or can prevent enemies from back-stabbing him if he is 2 places from an enemy. Also, this will be a unique melee/ranged attack, allowing Arman to reach this many more enemies (effecticely adding +1 to his speed to get a small advantage over Malis with Shadowport, which is superior to Leap).


Ert: I believe that mofdification was also suggested before. But I do find it interesting, however, maybe make it so that Arman doesn't move after the attack? Again, this is highly situational, and I am not sure if it's better than the other idea.


It's good to be well informed, let's leave it at that ;)
Though, people are quite entitled to have short, emotional based opinons- after all, if that's how they percieve and enjoy the game, then it's a valid point to make.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 05:10:16 PM
That sounds like another attack altogether, maybe we should vote on that seperately.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 05:10:47 PM
Well, with his stealth knife attack, he could have his back to the wall, and not want to move away from it but still want to hit an enemy. It's a niche move, but seriously, so is backhander.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 05:14:39 PM
Exactly, plus as APoC said arman needs diverse attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 07:02:48 PM
What about Rajav having this:

Parry and Riposte

As it turns out, Rajav was studying fencing tecniques that could be accomplished without breaking his spear, and discovered that by setting a defensive stance, he could flick an attack aside with his spear and his Gift, letting him not take damage from the front the following turn. What's more, he can use both his Gift and his spear together to fend off Psy attacks. Then, if the enemy is in front of him, he can quickly respond with a powerful counter attack.

Cost: 9
Damage of counter: 2x level + 1.3*Psy Power


This might be hard to code, but I like the idea, so if someone can come up with a better incarnation of it, I'd be pleased as punch (or judy).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 06, 2010, 07:05:02 PM
I like the counter idea. Yay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 07:08:55 PM
Sounds pretty avoidable to any enemy with half a brain cell, or even an AI.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 07:09:54 PM
It's a preparation move, and they don't know he did it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 06, 2010, 07:11:11 PM
Sounds pretty avoidable to any enemy with half a brain cell, or even an AI.
They already avoid Griffin's counter-attack when they can.

Plus, isn't fencing tecniques for swordsmen?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 07:12:11 PM
Oh, in that case I withdraw my nay to an abstentian until further notice.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 07:13:53 PM
Yes, but it's not a definite counter. It's just when the ability is triggered the previous turn.

The second concern: yes, but he was studying the lighter ones that deal in finesse, and wouldn't require aa strong sword.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 07:15:58 PM
Hmmm, still sounds iffy.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 07:17:11 PM
Which part?

P.S. I know it does sound kind of iffy, but we need a unique attack for Rajav, or at least I would like to see one.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 06, 2010, 07:17:11 PM
Griffin has a counter attack!?!?! Oh wait, Duh.
What about Future Knowlege for Luca? She does a quick reading of the intentions of all the enemies and warns the team. In turn, the team including herself, up their defense for one turn by a small amount. Thoughts?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 06, 2010, 07:18:46 PM
Oh, like a vision pill?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 07:21:27 PM
Do not like, I'm fishing for votes on stealth knife, please vote yay some more.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 06, 2010, 07:23:37 PM
I already said yay namelesskitty.

Yep. Except for every member. With a high cost. And it would up the defence more with every level because she could see more of what the enemy would do to better prepare the team.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 07:26:10 PM
That sounds unrealistic, it would involve divination, which is just too much, maybe if you thought of another explainatian.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 06, 2010, 07:27:35 PM
Luca expanding her mind to sense the thoughts of the enemies? And the. Warning the team to prepare them?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 07:40:12 PM
Ooh, ooh how about rend

Griffin
Cost 5 psp
Effect reduce enemy defence and atk
Griffin strikes enemy with flat side of his sword and makes the enemy unfocused and in pain
Damage= 1/2 level (round down) lower=level+1/4(round down) strength.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 06, 2010, 07:47:01 PM
Ooh, ooh how about rend

Griffin
Cost 5 psp
Effect reduce enemy defence and atk
Griffin strikes enemy with flat side of his sword and makes the enemy unfocused and in pain
Damage= 1/2 level (round down) lower=level+1/4(round down) strength.
Messes with enemy AI, so Nay! Nay! Nay!

I get sick of telling people that attacks can't mess enemy AI and enemies can't have speeds over 4.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 06, 2010, 07:48:43 PM
Gaaaaahhh so many rules, could you list them so that M great ideas don't need to be shot down.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 06, 2010, 07:50:30 PM
What about my idea im2smart4u?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 06, 2010, 07:52:52 PM
Gaaaaahhh so many rules, could you list them so that M great ideas don't need to be shot down.
There are only two.  You been around long enough to know them.

What about my idea im2smart4u?
Which idea?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 06, 2010, 07:54:48 PM
What about my idea im2smart4u?
Gahh. Ignored again.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 07, 2010, 04:42:12 AM
About the jump'n'stab. If Arman isn't able to move after the attack, then we might as well jump over the enemy and stab him afterwards. Perhaps the movement cost should be raised to prevent over-using it...

Parry and Riposte: nay.
Griffin already has a counter and if the AI can understand that we used that attack it will turn it useless (by attacking from a distance).

The future knowledge is more appropriate to Duvalier, since he's the one with the sight... mmm... that gives me an idea for an orb...

The Griffin rend attack that was suggested by namelesskitty (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=25.msg20946#msg20946) is similar to Arman's poison stab (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=209.msg3655#msg3655).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 07, 2010, 02:45:29 PM
I don't see any reason for the AI to know about the counter, if it's an attack that only happens when he sets himself up for it. Spearmen don't have that much PsP, so using Parry and Risposte on every turn would not be an effective use of PsP. Thus, the enemy can't expect this parry all the time, and should be programmed to ignore it. The main difference between Rajav's and Griffin's counter would be that Rajav's would be the exception, not the rule, and the enemy would have no reason to expect it. Their avoidance of the counter sometimes costs them strategically, and for this, even if the AI did know about it, the cost of avoiding the spearman's unlikely counter would outweigh the benefit of not landing a hit.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 03:14:03 PM
Jump'n'stab: yay just because it adds variety and may be used in same way as Griffin's backhander or a Long Shield. It may not be used all the time, but there will come situations where it will be handy.

Parry and Riposte: nay, same reasons as Ert.

Future Knowledge: nay, too difficult to explain how she can work out what will happen next- as far as we know, she does not have the temporal Sight.

Griffin Rend: nay, it's not in his character to fight dirty and weaken an enemy- that's more Arman's style.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 03:20:51 PM
What about for Duvalier then?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 07, 2010, 03:43:58 PM
Arch Preist of Craiginism: Are you talking about future knowledge?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 03:56:25 PM
Yes. Though maybe a different name. And in an orb that boosts the sight.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 07, 2010, 04:07:51 PM
We still have the topic of Arrow Rain. Since most people agree to arrow rain and we can't decide on which variation to use why not vote on it:

Formation 1:

OXOXO
OOXOO
OXOXO
OOOOO
OOROO

Formation 2:

OXXXO
OXOXO
OOOOO
OOROO

Formation 3: (Note I was thinking about this and thought why can't Rahel just do 2 sets of Split Shot 2)

OXXXO
OXXXO
OOOOO
OOROO

I personally like Formation 3 The Best.

Other Ideas

Jump'n'stab: Nay, because you could keep jumping over the same person over and over again, it would need a higher PsP

Parry and Riposte: Nay, Super Counter, I would rather just backstab for even more damage

Future Knowledge: Nay, I don't think luca can read so many people's mind's at once

Griffin Rend: Nay, Same as Erts



Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 04:46:43 PM
Let's vote on formations then, folks!
I say yay to formation 2, because it's a composite of two already-existing attacks- formation 3 is ok, but rahel can only shoot 2 arrows at shorter distances (this can be explained that wider angles are required to hit the targets and therefore it is harder to control more arrows at shorter distances) with her split shot.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 04:47:15 PM
Luca lull

OOXOO
OOLOO
OOOOO

L=luca

cost 11psp-1/2 atk level (round up) min 6
effect, setup for assasinate/sleep

the targeted unit is put to sleep by luca entering their mind and inserting calming and tiring thoughts, then unit is susceptible to assassinate (below) for one turn.

Arman Assassinate

OOXOO
OOAOO
OOOOO

cost 3/4 total PsP

damage=str+(2*level)

Effect, powerful, conditional, attack, meant for deathblow.

Arman kills the sleeping unit while it is completely defenseless

yes I know this combo is pushing it, but I really like it maybe luca can learn lull earlier, but assassinate is a harder attack to get.
if assassinate is already taken, then death stab.

yay form 2
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 04:49:45 PM
Too complicated this Luca Lull and Arman Assassinate. The former deals with affecting enemy AI by reducing its speed to 0 (sleep), the latter is actually coupled to the former, making it very difficult to code, and I think it's much easier to find other ways to kill a unit, rather than "setting up" a kill, methinks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 04:52:35 PM
I vote yay for form 2. I don't know about Lull and Assasinate. One would be useless without another. Me no likey.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 04:54:13 PM
no, they can't attack or move while asleep

and I'll add that assassinate can do four damage if the enemy is awake.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 04:54:31 PM
What formula?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 04:57:56 PM
no, just a constant four, we want motivation to do it while they're asleep.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 05:00:10 PM
Just give it a weak formula. There is still the incintive to use stab, knife, or mega stab. But my vote is still nay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 05:03:18 PM
how about constant fourteen, I don't want a formula because I want this to be a standard while awake.

better yet he can also do it back-stab after the character has been attacked by another on the same turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 05:04:54 PM
But Arman would still get better at it. IF it was included it would need a forumula.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 05:07:39 PM
how about 1/2 str (round down) + 1/2 level (round down)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 05:10:09 PM
I can live with that. But I still vote nay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 05:13:21 PM
what would it take for yay? I'm curious because I want to make it so that everyone has a say in how the attacks are made.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 05:16:50 PM
I would like to see no tag-team attacks in TSoG. Maybe in the next game. But I don't know. I don't like the idea.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 07, 2010, 05:19:40 PM
I'm still determined to come up with another special attack for Rajav. I know the names of attacks aren't ususally German, but Spiessenschieben means "Impale Push", which would be perfect for a TSoG attack by a spearman. The spearman impales the enemies on either side of him, and shoves them forward. This is a push attack like Air Blast, but would also do damage.

Spiessenschieben

Damage: 1.3* Strength + Psy Power + level
Effect: Before:         After:
                OOO          EOE
                ERE           ORO
                OOO          OOO

Explanation: As it turns out, one day Rajav was practising his spear thrusts, and he fell short. His intense will to reach it led him to add an extra foot of Psy material to his spear, much like Set's Solid State Shield. He then decided to use this tecnique to try and impale the two enemies to either side of him. With a shove, he can disentagle his spear, and dissipate the added length. However, adding more than about a foot of material to the spear could be dangerous, as the leverage causes it to be unstable.
Thoughts anyone?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 05:20:58 PM
hmmm, I did add alternative criteria, it's simply a possibility, maybe after he uses at least four different other attacks, that sounds, alright for the high damage (ie he it warmed up)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 07, 2010, 05:39:39 PM
I prefer formation 1 (yay).
Formation 3 is acceptable (a weaker yay).
If formation 2 ends up being chosen, then be it (this is a tiny yay).

I agree that Lull+Assassinate it's too complicated.

The impale push, for me, has at least 3 problems:
1. How can Rajav hit simultaneously two enemies located one to his left and the other one to his right?
2. How can he create matter? The solid state shield is supposed to be a very hard technique where a immovable ball is created.
3. How can he push back 2 enemies simultaneously - he has to be stronger than both! (Not to mention the problems that may arise if this attack is applied to Tigs or ghosts - how can we explain it?)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 05:43:18 PM
So far, we have  3 people saying yay to formation 2, and one having prefernce for formation 1 (but can live with 2).
Care to vote some more, folks?

Agree with Ert on impale push issues.
Plus, methinks keeping everything to one push attack is more than sufficient: we still haven't heard back from Craig on what he thinks in general of the push attacks (how difficult that is to code, etc).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 05:44:50 PM
Nay on impale push.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 07, 2010, 05:50:07 PM
Sorry about all the bad ideas, but that's how natural selection works, and hopefully one of mine will eventually get into the game, and if not, the process will have prevented my bad ideas from getting into the game.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 05:59:08 PM
C'mon, Duckling - at least you're trying ;)
And it's good to see different suggestions.

Now, let's be logical about who needs extra attacks and who doesn't. Let's assume part, if not most, of the formulated ideas get into the game.
Thus, who do you find is lacking in attacks and for what reason?

Let's have a look at all the teammates in general:
-what abilities/traits are they lacking, have an imbalance of (e.g. speed, flying)?
-how about the elements, are they well balanced?
-do we have enough of different classes on the team, can the team go both offensive and defensive?
-do we have enough powerful 1 tile attacks?
-do we have enough area attacks?
-do we have enough special abilities?
-any of the teammates seem too weak/strong? What about during different stages of the game (let's attempt to extrapolate here)?
-etc
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 07, 2010, 06:03:41 PM
Don't worry about it, Duckling. And they're not that bad ideas.
And the bad ideas may evolve to become good ideas.
For instance, the left and right slash for Griffin evolved to the praying mantis (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=27.msg48#msg48) and Griffin got whirlwind (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=209.msg15060#msg15060) instead.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 06:08:21 PM
Distraction- By using extremely showy Psi Powers, Luca has learned to distract all enemies within a certain range. This stuns them for one turn. This uses much power however.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 06:09:50 PM
Again, this attack messes with enemy AI- it forces them not to move or act during a turn- we had suggestions like that before, and we still haven't heard back from Craig about possibilities into tinkering with the enemy AI. Thus nay.


PS
Maybe, for those who have played, we can get some inspiration from TPA2? What did you find was lacking there for teammates of different classes?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 06:12:34 PM
Alright. Say it lowers the defence of the enemies in a certain range?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 06:15:05 PM
How would she do that?
So you suggest a decrease in the Psy Defense?

Ok, here's an idea: why not give Luca an attack which lowers the max hp of the target (a bit like Zem the Reaper's attack)- effectively a variation on her Soul Suck, except it isn't fatal.
Luca figures out how to drain/dissipate energy from her victims, making them physically weaker.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 06:16:45 PM
I like it. I was originally thinking that it would lull them into a false sends of security slightly.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 06:20:44 PM
So, "Energy Drain" gets a yay from you? :)

Let's put some stats on it- say it costs 6 PsP to lower enemy hp by 12 initially. Say, with each 2 new experience levels she adds on extra hp to lower.
(Formula like: Psy Attack level+attack experience/2 . If learned at, say, Psy Attack 12, then it's pretty simple. Though I am not really into damage formulas myself.)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 06:22:54 PM
I like the formula. It would give her more reason to be somewhere other than at the Hero's side for PsP boosts. What range would energy drain have? I havn't ever fought Zem the Reaper.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 06:25:00 PM
What about shadow knife, can anyone think of somethind to make it better it is definetally one of my best Ideas.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 06:29:50 PM
Mmm, the range on "energy drain" can be 2- like soul suck, but more subtle that (like smashing a pumpkin versus carving out eyes and a mouth).

kitty- what do you think of "energy drain" (I already voted on shadwo knife, so can't say much more, I'm afraid)?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 07, 2010, 06:32:09 PM
I vote yay for the drain, but I wouldn't call it energy drain (I associate energy to PsP). It might be useful in battles against enemy teams with an healer. Perhaps health drain is better (although not too much imaginative).

Nay for the distraction. On top of what KZ said, it seems too powerful.

Are you talking about the stealth knife (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=25.msg20654#msg20654)? It's not a bad idea, but I think it should be improved... but I don't know exactly why... sorry.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
Yay on energy drain, same reason.

It leaves something to be desires, I would like to find out what, because I don't know.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 06:36:05 PM
I totally agree, I just simply couldn't come up with a better name!
Can yee good folks suggest a better name for the attack?
What we have so far:

Luca
-"Energy Drain"
-range: 1
-PsP cost: 6
-enemy health reduction formula (psy attack+ attack level/2 )
-effects: reduce max enemy health

Learnable at circa level 12 Psy Attack.
Explanation: "Luca figures out how to drain/dissipate energy from her victims, making them physically weaker." Not unlike Zem the Reaper's attack. More subtle, hence requires more skill.  


(Great, we have 4 "yay" so far!)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 06:39:21 PM
What about "Soul Drain"?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 06:42:25 PM
I thought about that- but then we are not draining the soul here- soul drain is a synonym for soul suck really. I guess we're looking for synonyms of words like "vitality" and "sap/drain/suck" or "decrease", a continuous process, which does not terminate- that would be the best, methinks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 06:45:25 PM
Ooh,ooh
Psy bridge, Set

Allows a charachter to walk over objects, essentially flying set has learned how to create a barrier horisontally so that orhers can walk on it.

Allows one charachter to walk over objects for one turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 06:45:52 PM
Stamina Steal?

I vote nay for Psi Bridge.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 07, 2010, 06:45:59 PM
Or "Draw Life" or "Life Suck"... "Life pull", "Vivacity Drain"?

Sounds too much like Facebook.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 06:48:51 PM
Psy bridge may be too complicated to code, but the idea is interesting.

So, Duckling, is that a "yay" for the idea?

Hehe, "vivacity drain" equated to facebook, interesting!

PS
"fatigue"?
"stamina exhaust/deplete/diminish"?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 06:50:33 PM
Haha. Maybe we should go with that. :)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 07, 2010, 06:51:18 PM
That's a yay. Bosses shouldn't generally have attacks that can't be at least mimicked at a smaller scale by players in Telepath.

What? "Facebook"? Maybe not.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 06:53:33 PM
I like Stamina Steal and Vivacity Drain. But which one to vote for. Hmm.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 06:54:03 PM
Yes please call it facebook, not forever just maybe in the beta.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: KZ on September 07, 2010, 06:57:50 PM
How about "spirit leech" or "spirit drain"?

(I doubt that Craig would do that. w.r.t. facebook)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 07, 2010, 07:09:06 PM
I can't say I fully agree with that name. While it is shorter, and more in keeping with the Telepath naming style, it also doesn't (in my opinion) capture the meaning well. I associate Spirits with Souls, and Soul suck with Psy.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 07:25:11 PM
Mental Fatuige. Mental fatigue leads to a lapse in defense due to lack of concentration. Name idea. Like? Or dislike?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on September 07, 2010, 07:44:12 PM
Psy drain maybe? Too bad drain is already used. Edit: I didn't realize it drain max health, not psy points, so I vote nay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 07:46:13 PM
It drains max health. Not psi points.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 07, 2010, 07:53:33 PM
Perhaps demoralize, luca reduces the enemy's will to live by sending them negative thoughts.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 07, 2010, 08:00:37 PM
Hmm. Who knows. I like the idea of implanting thoughts in the enemies mind. Kinda like telepathy. Except they are posed as the enemies own thoughts.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 08, 2010, 06:19:10 PM
What about feeble, faint, frail, debile or enfeeble?

The psy bridge is interesting (even if it may be hard to code). I think it should be described as something floating because it will be quite harder to apply it when there is a gap of more than 1 square apart.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 08, 2010, 06:26:21 PM
Instead of Psy Bridge, what about Lift? Luca uses her ghostly and telepathic powers to push a target (friendly or non. Inanimate objects including ones capable of attacking excluded) to the next occupialble  space? It could have a large cost of PsP for attempting to mimic an orb to an extent.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 08, 2010, 06:28:39 PM
No, it's for set, the charachter can step on a platform which then hovers and moves them to where they want to go.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 08, 2010, 06:29:41 PM
So he uses it on a friendly and then on their next turn, they can "fly"?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 08, 2010, 06:39:23 PM
Yeah, that's pretty much it.

(in case you didn't get it, I love things that give me the upper hand rather than just grinding down health.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 08, 2010, 06:42:07 PM
I like Vitality Steal, Demoralize (good idea), and En-Frail. What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 08, 2010, 06:43:27 PM
Demoralize, enfeeble, those are my favorites, oh yes and facebook.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 08, 2010, 06:52:17 PM
I shall create a quick thead to see about approval of the idea itself and the names. Submit in the thread.
 Health Drain for Luca  (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=682.0)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 09, 2010, 10:12:07 AM
Luca
-"Energy Drain"
-range: 1
-PsP cost: 6
-enemy health reduction formula (psy attack+ attack level/2 )
-effects: reduce max enemy health
I am iffy about the the low cost of PsP, because Luca has such a large supply of PsP available to her which might cause overuse of the attack.

Name: Life Wound?

I not going to vote yay, because I don't see Luca using such an offensive attack.  Her attacks are more support base like Juxtapose (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Juxtapose), Transfer (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Transfer), or Pirouette (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=25.msg19784#msg19784). If we do give her an offinsive attack, then shouldn't it use the Cold element?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 09, 2010, 03:39:55 PM
The energy/health drain is more in the Mental category, like soul suck, transfer and mind blast.

Edit:
I don't really see Luca using Cold attacks, because I relate those to more a more offensive behaviour that I don't see Luca having.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 03:41:53 PM
I think what im2smart4u is saying is that he is against Vitality Steal. He wants Luca to remain with the Hero as a support.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on September 09, 2010, 07:03:01 PM
I agree with im2smart4u on this one. This attack seems too offense oriented.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 07:16:50 PM
It doesn't really work as offense. Luca just weakens the enemies. She demoralizes them. That's all.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 09, 2010, 08:05:52 PM
It doesn't really work as offense. Luca just weakens the enemies. She demoralizes them. That's all.
How is permanently reducing the enemy's health not offensive?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 08:13:37 PM
Why does Luca know Mindblast (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Mind_Blast)? Why is she able to Soul Suck (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Suck)? Those too are offensive.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 09, 2010, 08:14:17 PM
Wow, I agree with im2smart4u, there' definetally a first, but yes it is offensive.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 08:16:08 PM
Mndblast and soul suck are offensive too. Why does she know them?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 09, 2010, 08:20:22 PM
Why does Luca know Mindblast (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Mind_Blast)? Why is she able to Soul Suck (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Suck)? Those too are offensive.
Yes, they are offensive, but they do so little damage that it doesn't make her into an offensive unit.  The new suggested attack would make her an offensive unit.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 08:24:11 PM
Yet people up her Psy power to up her psi points. Which effectively ups her attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 09, 2010, 08:27:05 PM
Yet people up her Psy power to up her psi points. Which effectively ups her attack.
Do you currently use her as a major attack option?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 08:28:58 PM
Yep. Her physical resistance really helps.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 09, 2010, 08:33:00 PM
Yep. Her physical resistance really helps.
That further proves my point.  We need less attacks that would encourage her to be used as an offinsive unit and give her more attacks that would encourage her to be used as the support unit she was designed to be.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 08:34:48 PM
Who said she was designed to be a support? What's wrong with using her as an Offensive?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 09, 2010, 08:41:18 PM
Judging by her moves she is a support charachter.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 08:44:32 PM

How do you know that she isn't a unique mix? Like Beefalow. 3 parts bison, 5 parts cow. Or is it the other way around? You get my point.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 09, 2010, 08:46:30 PM
She'd have stronger attachs then, as it stands hers are for fighting when cornered
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 08:47:52 PM
Like I said. Like beefalow. A unique mix. She just currently had nontruly offensive attacks. And how does having an attack with a range if 2 help in a corner?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 09, 2010, 08:48:08 PM
How do you know that she isn't a unique mix? Like Beefalow. 3 parts bison, 5 parts cow. Or is it the other way around? You get my point.
The same reason we know that Anya (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Anya#Attacks.2FAbilities) wasn't an offensive unit.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 09:07:12 PM
But Anya only had four slots.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 09, 2010, 09:08:11 PM
So, how does that make a difference explain your logic.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 09:09:22 PM
She was specifically classified as a healer in her profile. Luca just says spirit. That doesn't make her just a support.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 09, 2010, 09:11:53 PM
And what does that have to do with four slots?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 09:13:07 PM
Luca has a total of eight. She has more options open. I thought you were for this namelesskitty.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 09, 2010, 09:14:50 PM
No, I changed my mind to a nay for this due to amazing arguments.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 09, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
I remove myself from this debate until a mod comes in and agrees or disagrees. Or both.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 10, 2010, 04:06:46 AM
I remove myself from this debate until a mod comes in and agrees or disagrees. Or both.
I'll choose a bit of both.

I agree that the teammates may evolve to less expected characteristics (depending on what Craig decides). Nevertheless, I recall Craig saying that he wanted characters to be unique (in particular their attacks). In that sense, I think that Luca is indeed a support character and her attacks should be, in general, non offensive.

This being said, I must say that I like the idea of a health/energy drain (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=25.msg21214#msg21214), provided it doesn't have a very drastic effect. I see it quite useful in a battle against enemies with a bunch of healers.
In order to make it less aggressive, perhaps only the max health could be reduced (i.e., no damage inflicted if the new max health is still above the current enemy health). In this way, it will be quite hard have Luca killing someone with this attack (it will probably be easier to use Soul Suck).

Speaking of Soul Suck, although useful, it's the attack that allows her to refill her PsP and support her allies.

By the way, if Luca is cornered she can kill her direct enemy or, using less violence, Juxtapose out of of there.


Picking up again the Psy Bridge suggestion, it seems that it should be called magic carpet instead! :) Since the affected character can fly in the next turn. Hey! That would be a reasonable attack for Luca to have if you think Set isn't the most suited one for it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 10, 2010, 07:12:41 AM
Picking up again the Psy Bridge suggestion, it seems that it should be called magic carpet instead! Since the affected character can fly in the next turn. Hey! That would be a reasonable attack for Luca to have if you think Set isn't the most suited one for it.
In theory it sounds good, but I think Craig has designed levels in which most characters are forced to stay land bound.  For example, the Battle of Fawaz Gorge is created with the idea that you had to face the Ravinale Swordsmen on the bridge.  The level would be too easy, if everyone could fly across the gorge.  Plus, Psy Bridge would take away the significance of the Azure Orb.

Pirouette- Luca uses her mysterious powers to rotate her friends or foes 180░.  This would help teammates face thier foes.  It would also make enemies vurnable to backstab.
Element: Spirit
Range: 2 Spaces
Cost: 5 Psy Points
Damage: No Damage
I want to hear more then KZ's opinion on Piroutte before it is shot down.  This attack would work great with Griffin's backhand and Arman's stab.   It encourages Luca's role as a support class.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 10, 2010, 05:19:55 PM
Darn you, im2smart4u! That DOES IT!!!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 10, 2010, 11:32:03 PM
Nay for Pirouette.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 10, 2010, 11:37:25 PM
Naayyyyyy. I just don't like it. Gut instinct. Or maybe just that bean burrito coming back to haunt me.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 11, 2010, 10:16:05 AM
I want to hear more then KZ's opinion on Piroutte before it is shot down.  This attack would work great with Griffin's backhand and Arman's stab.   It encourages Luca's role as a support class.
Piroutte would be an awesome support attack that I would way more useful, then Juxtapose.

Useful Scenarios for Piroutte
*Have Griffin backhander (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Backhander) his enemy to do massive damage.  Then you can use Luca's Piroutte to set up Griffin for a counter-attack, while protecting him from backstab damage.
*You are facing a Ravinale Swordsman.  Arman could leap over him and backstab him, but then Arman would be venerable to backstab himself, because there are many enemies behind the swordsman.  If he attacks a Ravinale Swordsman from the front, then he will be hit by a counter-attack.  If Luca uses Piroutte on the swordsmen, then Arman can backstab the swordsman without getting hit by a counter-attack or being backstabbed by enemy soldiers.
*By attacking the frontside, Duvalier can't do a finishing blow with his elemental blast and he doesn't have enought steps to attack his enemy from behind.  If Luca uses Piroutte, then Duvalier can blast the enemy into oblivion.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 10:22:13 AM
I still don't like it. And a solution fort he past would be to get the extra step from arman. Which I do anyway.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 11, 2010, 10:57:35 AM
And a solution fort he past would be to get the extra step from arman. Which I do anyway.
The sixth step doesn't mean that you can always be within back stabbing range.  For example, can that extra 6th step help you in this scenario?  No it can't, but Luca's Piroutte would be able to turn the enemy, so Duvalier can backstab him with an elemental blast.

OOOOOO
OOOEOO
OOOOOO
OOOOOL
ODOOOO

O=black space
E=Enemy facing down
D=Duvalier
L=Luca
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 11:29:18 AM
Accually it can. Go up 4 steps. Go right 1 step. Go up another step and turn around. Bam. Backstab.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 02:03:24 PM
You edited the scenario diagram about an hour after I posted the solution. I believe the original layout was
OOOOO
OOEOO
OOOOL
ODOOO
Or something very very similar.

-Edited Later-
What about new elemental attacks. I was thinking along the lines of different area attacks.
Heat Wave
 The user carefully accelerates the movements of particles in the air to create a wall of heat that is then launched a short distance.
Range: 3, 1-5 horizontally
OOOOOOO
OAAAAAO
OOOOOOO
OOODOOO
OOOOOOO
O-Empty
A-Affected
D-Duvalier facing North

Cold Front
 The user carefully slows down the movement of particles in the air to create an invisible wall of cold that is released directly in front of the user.
Range: 1-2, 3 spaces per row.
OOOOOOO
OOAAAOO
OOAAAOO
OOODOOO
OOOOOOO
O-Empty
A-Affected
D-Duvalier facing North

Solar Ray
 The user uses radioactive particles in the air to create a wall of light near the user.
Range:1-3, both sides
OOOOOOO
OOOOOOO
AAADAAA
OOOOOOO
OOOOOOO
O-Empty
A-Affected
D-Duvalier facing North

Shadow Eclipse
 The user harvests corrosive maisma to create a half moon on the users right spreading a small distance.
Range:1, semi-omnidirectional
OOOOOOO
OOOAAOO
OOODAOO
OOOAAOO
OOOOOOO
O-Empty
A-Affected
D-Duvalier facing North

I decided not to include formulas just yet. I wanted to know what you think. I am open to suggestions/revisions.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on September 11, 2010, 05:59:43 PM
I say yay for piroutte if it isn't already too late to vote. If Luca can move teammates with Juxtapose, she should be able to turn them around without a problem.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 11, 2010, 06:24:41 PM
I'll give a small yay for pirouette. It's not an attack that I think it makes much sense, but I can see some use on the battlefield (for instance, the examples given by im2smart4u).
It doesn't make much sense because the enemies would try to cancel its effect. That would be easier for them to do that cancelling the effects of juxtapose because the former only rotates the enemy without moving him (thus, rotating back wouldn't need any steps) while the latter moves the enemy (requiring 1 or 2 steps to move back) and it's previous position will become occupied.

I liked the idea of having new elemental attacks. And I think that the Arch Preist of Craiginism tried more or less to complement the current elemental attacks with those new ones. However, I don't agree with that. I think it would be more interesting for a player that if he chooses an affinity, then his choice would have a style carried on through the game, meaning that if the elemental area attacks are ranked from cold (very close range) to light (very long range), the new attacks should fit in this idea (that's what I tried to do when I proposed the mini elemental area attacks (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=614.msg19392#msg19392) that may be suggested without the necessity of an orb).
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 06:39:15 PM
How would you want them changed? I want them revised if they need revised.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 11, 2010, 07:18:23 PM
Mmm... perhaps:

Cold Front
OOOOOOO
XXXDXXX
OOOOOOO

Shadow Eclipse
OOXXXOO
OXOOOXO
OOODOOO

Heat Wave (the same)
OXXXXXO
OOOOOOO
OOODOOO

Solar Ray
OOXXXOO
OXOOOXO
OOOOOOO
OOOOOOO
OOODOOO

or
Solar Rays (that might be too close to the fire gust (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=209.msg17984#msg17984) in the short range part of the attack)
OOOXOOO
OXOXOXO
OOXXXOO
OOOXOOO
OOODOOO


O-Empty
X-Affected (the "X" has almost the same size as the "O" in my screen)
D-Duvalier facing North
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 07:22:19 PM
They look different. Which is what I was going for. I like them. And I'm glad one of my attack layouts was like. I like the Solar Ray you suggested better than mine. Does anyone have any more comments/revisions/votes/formula idea/costs?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 11, 2010, 07:38:33 PM
Perhaps the Heat Wave and the Shadow Eclipse could be more different...
I hesitated in making a wider Heat Wave
XXXXXXX
OOOOOOO
OOODOOO

I don't have many ideas on the formulas.
The PsP cost and the damage could be perhaps 25% to 50% higher than the exiting elemental area attacks, but things as squares hit should also be taken in consideration.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 09:04:59 PM
What do you think Mr. "I'm gonna attempt to be mean to APoC by saying "He has the biggest suck up name ever""? Yeah. I caught that im2smart4u. What dontou think of the areas and such?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 11, 2010, 09:09:27 PM
I was thinking maybe elemental hooks

Elemental hook

XXXOO
BBXOO
BBDOO

X=affected
B=barrier
D=dualiver facing north
O=empty

I'm just wondering how this area attack will go over with everyone. Ifind myself in this frustrating position so often and would like to see something done about it.
Yay for revised area attacks because I like the fire one a lot(fire is my favorite affinity)
Yay for pirouette because it sounds useful.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 09:12:48 PM
They aren't revised. They are new area attacks. Or are you refering to Ert's revisions of mine?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 11, 2010, 09:15:04 PM
Ert's revisions of course, what isyour opinion on mine?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 09:16:10 PM
I don't know. What would the explanation of why it hooked be?
And would I be safe to assume you like Heat Wave?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 11, 2010, 09:23:55 PM
It doesn't actually hook, deliver fires the attack into the air so that is falls behind the barrier andthen fires two shots straight in front of him, so it's two lobs and then a pair of shots of varying distance in front.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 09:26:25 PM
How can you fire through a barrier? I really don't like the idea of a hooking attack like that. Do you like Heat Wave 1(designed by your truly) or Heat Wave 2(designed by Ert)?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 11, 2010, 09:35:25 PM
#2

And it goes over
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 10:21:18 PM
So you would rather see an attack that affects 7 spaces in a row, 3 spaces away?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 11, 2010, 10:25:35 PM
Well, it's better than the other and I'd like to see the fire affinity beefed up a little.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 11, 2010, 10:48:07 PM
I'm offended slightly. But I'm glad my names are being kept. Can I write the formulas?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 12, 2010, 05:14:19 AM
Sorry for changing all your attacks...

Yeah, you can write some formulas.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 12, 2010, 07:32:23 AM
Wouldn't they all be along the lines of

Psy Power + Level + c

c = constant for each attack

?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 12, 2010, 07:41:28 AM
what do you all think of elemental hook?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on September 12, 2010, 07:53:34 AM
They should have different shapes. Like Cold should be like branching out in different directions, and Shadow should be be a couple of knights' moves, and Light should be one 3x3 hook, and Heat should spiral out four times like:

OOOOO
XXXOO
XODOO
XOOOO
XXXXX

Cold:

OXXOO
OOXOO
XXOXX
OXDXO
OOOOO

Shadow:
OXXOO
OOXOX
OODXX
OXXOO
OOOOO

Light:

XXXXO
OOOXO
OOOXO
OOODO
OOOOO
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 12, 2010, 08:24:39 AM
They look pretty powerful, but I do like them, maybe if they have lower formulas.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 12, 2010, 09:42:41 AM
I don't like the new suggested elemental attacks.  They seem like you guys are just putting random Xs on a grid of Os.  It seems forced and artificial. I vote "Naayyyyyy. I just don't like it. Gut instinct. Or maybe just that bean burrito coming back to haunt me."
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 12, 2010, 09:57:00 AM
Accually I have put thought into mine. I spent about an hour coming up with the designs. Now are you done calling me a suck-up and quoting me? Or do you just hate me?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 12, 2010, 10:08:29 AM
No need to fight people, it is just an idea!

With the New Elemental Attacks: I see the point of them but I don't I would use them, whoever I do think that they can be useful in some cases. I am going for 'maybe' for the new elemental attacks.

With the Hooks: I must admit that they do look like Radom and I don't think they would be necessary. I say 'nay'
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 12, 2010, 10:10:29 AM
Thank you Zackirus. As I said before, nay on the hooks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 12, 2010, 11:27:58 AM
Pirouette- Luca uses her mysterious powers to rotate her friends or foes 180░.  This would help teammates face thier foes.  It would also make enemies vurnable to backstab.
Element: Spirit
Range: 2 Spaces
Cost: 5 Psy Points
Damage: No Damage
I'll give a small yay for pirouette. It's not an attack that I think it makes much sense, but I can see some use on the battlefield (for instance, the examples given by im2smart4u).
It doesn't make much sense because the enemies would try to cancel its effect. That would be easier for them to do that cancelling the effects of juxtapose because the former only rotates the enemy without moving him (thus, rotating back wouldn't need any steps) while the latter moves the enemy (requiring 1 or 2 steps to move back) and it's previous position will become occupied.
I don't understand what you mean by "cancel its effect".  Are you saying that the enemies will turn back around during their turn?  This attack would require you to use the teammates in the correct order.  To use Luca's Piroutte last is like healing a full healthed Griffin before he attacks a Ravinale Swordsman's front.  You have to use Piroutte before the other teammates, so the other teammates can attack the enemy before he turns around.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 12, 2010, 11:34:15 AM
I might think different of Piroutte if it only rotated 90 degrees.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 12, 2010, 11:54:39 AM
I might think different of Piroutte if it only rotated 90 degrees.
I thought about that before suggesting, but I concluded that 180░ was better.  Turning 180░ can be used effectively much more often then the 90░ turn.  At first I thought that you could use 90░ turns multiple time like shadowport, but that would be overpowered in my opinion.  Plus, if we had to turn him 90, then we would have to have one attack for turning clockwise and a second attack for turning counter-clockwise.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on September 12, 2010, 12:04:20 PM
I give a yay for Piroutte. It is better than giving her an offensive move.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 12, 2010, 12:16:59 PM
I'll change mine to a maybe. I don't know.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 12, 2010, 12:26:42 PM
Pirouette- Luca uses her mysterious powers to rotate her friends or foes 180░.  This would help teammates face thier foes.  It would also make enemies vurnable to backstab.
Element: Spirit
Range: 2 Spaces
Cost: 5 Psy Points
Damage: No Damage
I'll give a small yay for pirouette. It's not an attack that I think it makes much sense, but I can see some use on the battlefield (for instance, the examples given by im2smart4u).
It doesn't make much sense because the enemies would try to cancel its effect. That would be easier for them to do that cancelling the effects of juxtapose because the former only rotates the enemy without moving him (thus, rotating back wouldn't need any steps) while the latter moves the enemy (requiring 1 or 2 steps to move back) and it's previous position will become occupied.
I don't understand what you mean by "cancel its effect".  Are you saying that the enemies will turn back around during their turn?  This attack would require you to use the teammates in the correct order.  To use Luca's Piroutte last is like healing a full healthed Griffin before he attacks a Ravinale Swordsman's front.  You have to use Piroutte before the other teammates, so the other teammates can attack the enemy before he turns around.
If I think how the game works (turn based in a tiled space), then pirouette would work as you intended it to work. No problems with that.
My objection is based on a more realistic approach. If I imagine that pirouette existed in the real world, how effective would it be? I think it would be easy just to rotate in the opposite direction. That is my objection.

I didn't like too much about the hooked attacks, although I acknowledge that they're original. Perhaps they could be used by enemies with different affinities...
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 12, 2010, 12:34:45 PM
They should have different shapes. Like Cold should be like branching out in different directions, and Shadow should be be a couple of knights' moves, and Light should be one 3x3 hook, and Heat should spiral out four times like:

OOOOO
XXXOO
XODOO
XOOOO
XXXXX
This is less of a hook and more of a spiral but maybe it could be called Fire Serpant as an attack for a higher level enemy. It coils out from the user, striking any in its way.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 12, 2010, 01:08:31 PM
If I think how the game works (turn based in a tiled space), then pirouette would work as you intended it to work. No problems with that.
My objection is based on a more realistic approach. If I imagine that pirouette existed in the real world, how effective would it be? I think it would be easy just to rotate in the opposite direction. That is my objection.
If you were suddenly teleported, you wouldn't immediately know that you are facing the opposite direction.  During this confusion, a teammate will quickly attack the enemy in the back. Is that real world enough for you?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on September 12, 2010, 03:26:07 PM
If I think how the game works (turn based in a tiled space), then pirouette would work as you intended it to work. No problems with that.
My objection is based on a more realistic approach. If I imagine that pirouette existed in the real world, how effective would it be? I think it would be easy just to rotate in the opposite direction. That is my objection.
If you are going by that logic, why can't Griffin turn around after using a backhander? If Griffin or any other teammates can't turn around after they have already gone, then your enemies shouldn't be able to either.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Ertxiem on September 12, 2010, 05:33:54 PM
If I think how the game works (turn based in a tiled space), then pirouette would work as you intended it to work. No problems with that.
My objection is based on a more realistic approach. If I imagine that pirouette existed in the real world, how effective would it be? I think it would be easy just to rotate in the opposite direction. That is my objection.
If you were suddenly teleported, you wouldn't immediately know that you are facing the opposite direction.  During this confusion, a teammate will quickly attack the enemy in the back. Is that real world enough for you?
The description you gave consisted on Luca rotating her target (and that was the point I was addressing).
Now you're describing that Luca teleports her target to the same place with a rotation of 180║ during the teleportation process. It's different and, perhaps, a bit better. However, I would like to point out that if the argument is that a person is confused after teleporting, then he should be more vulnerable from all the directions in that moment. So, the explanation of the attack should be that the target is aware that he moved but he just faces primarily the people on his front so we may have a few seconds to strike him on the back before he has time to react.

If I think how the game works (turn based in a tiled space), then pirouette would work as you intended it to work. No problems with that.
My objection is based on a more realistic approach. If I imagine that pirouette existed in the real world, how effective would it be? I think it would be easy just to rotate in the opposite direction. That is my objection.
If you are going by that logic, why can't Griffin turn around after using a backhander? If Griffin or any other teammates can't turn around after they have already gone, then your enemies shouldn't be able to either.
That is quite different. Griffin chooses to do an attack that deals extra damage in which the technique is based on him turning his back on his enemy for a significant part of the time, therefore exposing himself more to backstab damage (if the enemy has time to react).
In the (initial) description of pirouette, I got the idea that the rotation occurred continuously (even if in a relatively short amount of time). In this case, it's easier for someone to rotate himself back during that process, thereby cancelling the effect.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on September 12, 2010, 06:11:18 PM
How about the attack whirls them around almost instantly, slightly disorienting them to the point that they can notice things in front of them and react on instinct, but they don't notice someone behind them until it is too late.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 12, 2010, 07:06:04 PM
Pirouette- Luca uses her mysterious powers to rotate her friends or foes 180░.  This would help teammates face thier foes.  It would also make enemies vurnable to backstab.
Element: Spirit
Range: 2 Spaces
Cost: 5 Psy Points
Damage: No Damage

Yay:
*yogc
*Ertxiem
*im2smart4u
*Zackirus
*The Holy namelesskitty

Nays:
N/A

Sorry, but you waited too long and vote is closed.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 12, 2010, 07:09:25 PM
Yay because it sounds so useful.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 15, 2010, 08:20:54 AM
Pirouette- Luca uses her mysterious powers to rotate her friends or foes 180░.  This would help teammates face thier foes.  It would also make enemies vurnable to backstab.
Element: Spirit
Range: 2 Spaces
Cost: 5 Psy Points
Damage: No Damage
Last chance to object to formulation (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=209.0) of Pirouette.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 15, 2010, 08:22:49 AM
Higher point cost? Just a tad?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 15, 2010, 08:28:38 AM
Higher point cost? Just a tad?
What is your reasoning and what do you think it should be?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 15, 2010, 09:58:53 AM
Well, if it moves an enemy, making them vulnerable, I was thinking that it seemed too useful to only cost 5 psi points. I was thinking 7-8. Keeping in mind that Griffin could use backhander and have Luca flip him back around, alloying him to counter attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 15, 2010, 10:55:13 AM
Well, if it moves an enemy, making them vulnerable, I was thinking that it seemed too useful to only cost 5 psi points. I was thinking 7-8. Keeping in mind that Griffin could use backhander and have Luca flip him back around, alloying him to counter attack.
But Juxtapose (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Juxtapose) only costs 6 PsP and that attack teleports two characters over a distance.  Pirouette only teleports one character in the same place, yet facing a different direction.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 15, 2010, 10:56:27 AM
I'm going to have to agree with im2smart4u on this one.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 15, 2010, 11:02:09 AM
Alright. I guess 5 would be okay. But my vote remains neutral.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 15, 2010, 01:10:58 PM
I'm going to have to agree with im2smart4u on this one.
Is that a Yay?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 15, 2010, 01:34:38 PM
I think he was voting yay for keeping 5 as the cost.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on September 15, 2010, 09:53:03 PM
My vote also remains neutral.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 25, 2010, 05:32:48 PM
maybe for Arman: Dodge

when he uses this he dodges any attack the next turn without fail, but can only move seven spaces.

Cost: 5psp
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 25, 2010, 05:58:54 PM
Maybe it should be called "Awareness" because Arman is paying so close attention so that he CAN dodge. And reduce his speed to five if he uses it that turn and he can't attack again.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 25, 2010, 05:59:57 PM
reflexes, is that good for you?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 25, 2010, 06:03:30 PM
Yeah. But maybe it should have a dark breath side effect each time it's used instead and increase the chances of dodging by 10% each time it's used for a possible total of 80% by dropping Armans speed to 1.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 25, 2010, 06:07:56 PM
that sounds great.

Reflexes, Arman

decreases speed permanently (for the battle) by one, adds ten percent dodge chance, up to 80% when Arman moves 1 (cannot use the attack after that.) also next turn all attacks miss.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 25, 2010, 06:13:59 PM
No. Arman is still human so he's bound to miss something. That means that he should just up his dodge chance that would be created on the first use. It would be a little much to have him dodge the next attack and up his dodge chance.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 25, 2010, 06:19:25 PM
Reflexes, Arman

decreases speed permanently (for the battle) by one, adds ten percent dodge chance, up to 80% when Arman moves 1 (cannot use the attack after that.) also next turn 90% chance of dodge next turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on September 25, 2010, 07:18:29 PM
It might be hard for Craig to program that in, but it sounds good for me. I vote yay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 26, 2010, 01:07:09 AM
Reflexes, Arman

decreases speed permanently (for the battle) by one, adds ten percent dodge chance, up to 80% when Arman moves 1 (cannot use the attack after that.) also next turn 90% chance of dodge next turn.
After TRPG2, Criag has decided to remove any luck from the game, so 80% or 90% anything won't be put into the game.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on September 26, 2010, 06:10:50 AM
That's what I said originally. Maybe instead of dodging he can be prepared enough that when he is attacked, he dodges some of the damage instead of a die roll. What say you?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 26, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
yes, he takes that much less damage that makes a lot of sense, and it fits with all of our opinions and requests.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on September 26, 2010, 10:20:25 AM
That's what I said originally. Maybe instead of dodging he can be prepared enough that when he is attacked, he dodges some of the damage instead of a die roll. What say you?
Isn't Arman more of a charcter who uses his speed to aviod damage completly, while Griffin is more of the character who is willing to take damage?  The idea of Arman is to strike hard and fast before the other character can strike back.  Doesn't reducing damage and reducing speed have the opposite effect?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on September 26, 2010, 10:57:10 AM
Complete dodge next turn and reduce move to five next turn that makes sense, and maybe the other can be called caution and for Griffin.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 14, 2010, 06:28:38 PM
New Duvalier attack:

Plasma Blast
"As it turns out, (insert name here) has discovered that with enough focus and power, he can accelerate the particles of objects nearby to such a degree that the object not only seems to be not a liquid, solid, or gas but it seems to completely devastate anything that comes onto contact with it. However, soon after using it, (insert name here) felt very drained."

Range: 2
Cost: 25
Formula: Damage=Power+(Attack Level*3)-2
Type:N/A (What could you possibly put this under?)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Chrono on October 14, 2010, 07:29:51 PM
Mental/Pyro. So if you added this, you would have to make the same attack for the other affinities too. I'm putting a maybe.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 14, 2010, 07:35:59 PM
No. Not nessesarily the same attack, but an attack to sorta balance them out. One thing I forgot to add was that it would increase the damage the target takes from all sources by a small amount. And this wouldn't go under mental. Don't tell me that an inanimate object can survive having it's atomic structure completely stripped away. If it can, I'll leave the forums for good. So I guess this would go under pyro/light.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Chrono on October 14, 2010, 08:15:58 PM
Then it should be pyro according to your description.
One thing I forgot to add was that it would increase the damage the target takes from all sources by a small amount.
Do you mean that the attack actually lowers the target's defense?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 14, 2010, 09:07:23 PM
Plasma Blast
"As it turns out, (insert name here) has discovered that with enough focus and power, he can accelerate the particles of objects nearby to such a degree that the object not only seems to be not a liquid, solid, or gas but it seems to completely devastate anything that comes onto contact with it. However, soon after using it, (insert name here) felt very drained."

Range: 2
Cost: 25
Formula: Damage=Power+(Attack Level*3)-2
Type:N/A (What could you possibly put this under?)
Accelerating particles is for people with the heat element.  What attacks would the other three affinities have?  This attack is way too powerful.  Something hot enough to be plasma would not exist outside of space.  It would explode instantly as tries to feed itself molecules like oxygen.
Nay.

Don't tell me that an inanimate object can survive having it's atomic structure completely stripped away. If it can, I'll leave the forums for good.
An inanimate object can survive having it's atomic structure completely stripped away.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 15, 2010, 04:26:54 AM
And how do you know that? Don't tell me that you have a glob of plasma at home sitting in your 0g vacuum tank.

Don't tell me that an inanimate object can survive having it's atomic structure completely stripped away. If it can, I'll leave the forums for good.
An inanimate object can survive having it's atomic structure completely stripped away.
Oh very funny. I forgot to laugh.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 15, 2010, 04:27:40 PM
Hmmm, it sounds too powerful, I don't think so. It is pyro though, and you'll need attacks just like it or similar for the other three, nay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 15, 2010, 05:33:58 PM
How 'bout "Waveform Nebula" (a lattice of supercooled shards of ice taking on the will of its user, targeting its opponent where it knows that it'll hurt as a result of the waveforms' synchronization), "Mitosis Array" (A series of EM particles which would split in midair many times a second, replicating themselves, numbering huge amounts when finally hitting the target), and "Umbratic Torment" (A writhing globule of negative energy which forms itself into rotating blades during its flight? for the extras. :D  I think, however, we have enough elemental attacks, and the names are getting long.

Sadly, while the idea could go a bit further with some PR, I vote naybe.

Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 15, 2010, 10:17:20 PM
I'm not done with it yet and I havn't had time to create similars for the other affinities yet. If you change your nays to maybes just for now, I can probably finish them tomorrow. But I don't want im2smart4u using the nays before I finish.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 16, 2010, 09:50:57 AM
I'm not done with it yet and I havn't had time to create similars for the other affinities yet. If you change your nays to maybes just for now, I can probably finish them tomorrow. But I don't want im2smart4u using the nays before I finish.
Instead of just posting any idea that pops into your head, you need to think about your suggestion thoroughly before posting it.  Ask yourself questions that you think other forumers will ask:
Does this fit into the Telepath RPG world?
Is it overly powerful?
Would it be useful?
Would it be worth Criag's time to create?
Does it make any logical sense?
Is the suggestion reasonable compared to other enemies/attacks?
Is this suggestion immature? (this is mostly for bugfartboy)
And any other questions that come to mind.

So far, I count three nays and no yays.  I think it is time to give up on the plasma idea.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on October 16, 2010, 10:18:00 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with im2smart4u here.
I am against the idea, even if the element was removed or attacks were made for all the elements
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 16, 2010, 10:45:16 AM
I DID NOT SAY NAY!!!!!

I said naybe.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 16, 2010, 12:16:21 PM
It was thought through. And it has a very high cost. It could have a health cost as well as it would "explode as it tries to feed itself off of the oxygen".
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 16, 2010, 01:45:15 PM
It's still too much
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 18, 2010, 06:33:51 PM
How about a

Ricochet Shot:

Damage: Strength + Ricochet Shot levl + Psy Power*.35
PsP Cost: 10 - 14 (Voters decide, or not if the idea bombs)
Range: It's complicated, and might give Craig a headache; I'm not sure

OOOOOOO            OOOOOOO
OEOOOEO     or     OOEOEOO
EOOOOOE             EOOOOOE
OOOROOO            OOOROOO

The shot goes like a normal Split Shot, and doubles back to next pair of enemies. Here's the part I'm iffy about the programming on; if the arrows don't hit an enemy, then they don't rebound and hit the second enemy.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 18, 2010, 06:53:32 PM
Nay. Too complicated. And here is a now reasonable quote:
Does it make any logical sense?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 18, 2010, 06:54:00 PM
Yes.... but I can see the complicated thing.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 18, 2010, 06:56:17 PM
Sigh. Why would the ARROWS ricochet? Bullets might but I don't see any guns around. And it these arrows would ricochet, why don't ALL of Rahel's arrows ricochet?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 18, 2010, 07:02:43 PM
Because these are even more telekinetically empowered arrows? Because with concentration, Rahel can figure out the right angles? Look, it seemd like a good idea at the time.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 18, 2010, 07:04:08 PM
Sigh. I don't think so. And I can't believe it but I'm going to have to go with a probable im2smart4uian answer. Nay
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 18, 2010, 07:04:40 PM
Let's just forget about that.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 18, 2010, 08:25:28 PM
Ricochet Shot is just too much.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 18, 2010, 11:16:11 PM
Hmmm, I like the concept but I hate the idea. Keep thinking along those lines.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 19, 2010, 03:46:39 AM
If Griffin's Power were upped enough, would he be possible of small basic forms of the Gift? Mind Reading maybe?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 19, 2010, 04:14:04 AM
Perhaaapss... where go you with this?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 19, 2010, 04:43:37 AM
I was thinking maybe... If Griffin were to train his power really really high, he could read an enemies mind, and block their next attack as well as hit them for more than normal. But if this were true and accepted, I have no name for it right now. Yay, Nay, Maybe? Revisions, Denials, Kill 'da Bugfartboy for an idea worse than Plasma Burst?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 19, 2010, 07:41:26 AM
I was thinking maybe... If Griffin were to train his power really really high, he could read an enemies mind, and block their next attack as well as hit them for more than normal. But if this were true and accepted, I have no name for it right now. Yay, Nay, Maybe? Revisions, Denials, Kill 'da Bugfartboy for an idea worse than Plasma Burst?
This seems silly. nay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 19, 2010, 07:42:39 AM
I think people are just posting idea, so they have something posted.  I wonder if they truely want to see some of these attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 19, 2010, 04:39:45 PM
I honestly would want to see a ricochet attack of some sort. I don't know if it would be Rahel, though.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 19, 2010, 05:25:23 PM
my guess if this is so would be for the main, (somehow harnessing some sort of energy in the target, and siphoning that into a blast coming from the primary target.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: TheWanderingShadow on October 20, 2010, 07:14:51 PM
There was a debate in the old forums about giving Set a Shield Blast, which would cost high psy power and push enemies or teammates one or two blocks away. Was that idea scrapped or something?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on October 20, 2010, 07:27:29 PM
Yes, there was the issue of Set pushing the target off a bridge or into a rock or tree or some other battlefield object.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 20, 2010, 07:36:57 PM
Yeah. Set being a pacifist supreme and such. I would be right there with him though.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: TheWanderingShadow on October 20, 2010, 08:10:29 PM
Someone said that you could prevent him from doing that, throwing up a message like "Set's pacifism stops him from doing that". That would probably be too much trouble, though.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 20, 2010, 08:14:46 PM
I don't know. I don't think it would be too much trouble but the idea was shot down many a posts ago.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 21, 2010, 08:05:45 PM
Here are some range 1 attacks. I had created damage forumlas for them originally but they didn't look very good at all. Here goes:

Icy Breath- Duvalier
Spoiler
The user slows down the particles in his breathing to create small chunks of ice to hurl at those right in front of him.
Type:Ice
Range:1
Cost:4


Black Spot- Duvalier
Spoiler
The user forms gobules of corrosive masmia in his hands which he drips onto the ground in front of him to harm those directly in front.
Type:Shadow
Range:1
Cost:3


Light Orb-Duvalier
Spoiler
The user gathers radioactive particles in the air to a space just in front of him, bombarding whatever happens to be there with them.
Type:Light
Range:1
Cost:4


Firey Glare-Duvalier
Spoiler
The user accelerates the particles in whatever happens to be right in front of him at the time, damaging them.
Type:Fire
Range:1
Cost:4
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 21, 2010, 09:01:06 PM
Here are some range 1 attacks. I had created damage forumlas for them originally but they didn't look very good at all. Here goes:
Icy Breath- Duvalier
Spoiler
The user slows down the particles in his breathing to create small chunks of ice to hurl at those right in front of him.
Type:Ice
Range:1
Cost:4
Black Spot- Duvalier
Spoiler
The user forms gobules of corrosive masmia in his hands which he drips onto the ground in front of him to harm those directly in front.
Type:Shadow
Range:1
Cost:3
Light Orb-Duvalier
Spoiler
The user gathers radioactive particles in the air to a space just in front of him, bombarding whatever happens to be there with them.
Type:Light
Range:1
Cost:4
Firey Glare-Duvalier
Spoiler
The user accelerates the particles in whatever happens to be right in front of him at the time, damaging them.
Type:Fire
Range:1
Cost:4
Unnecessary, because of mind blast.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 22, 2010, 06:02:33 AM
But you yourself said
Why does Luca know Mindblast (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Mind_Blast)? Why is she able to Soul Suck (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Suck)? Those too are offensive.
Yes, they are offensive, but they do so little damage that it doesn't make her into an offensive unit.  The new suggested attack would make her an offensive unit.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 22, 2010, 06:54:22 AM
Why does black spot cost 1 less?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 22, 2010, 07:17:54 AM
Shadow. I was thinking a weaker damage formula. Similar to shadow blast being weaker and less costly.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 22, 2010, 11:32:50 AM
But you yourself said
Why does Luca know Mindblast (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Mind_Blast)? Why is she able to Soul Suck (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Suck)? Those too are offensive.
Yes, they are offensive, but they do so little damage that it doesn't make her into an offensive unit.  The new suggested attack would make her an offensive unit.
Your point is?

By the time the Hero learns to use elemental attacks, his experience using mind blast would make mind blast more powerful then any of your suggestions.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 22, 2010, 01:24:23 PM
Actually, if the damage multiplyer was 1.5, I might be a yay on that count. But as a whole, I think we don't need more attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 22, 2010, 02:03:28 PM
I just don't see the point of an elemental mind blast.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 22, 2010, 02:57:01 PM
These are frankly excessive and unnecessary, sorry but I think that these are a bad idea.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on October 22, 2010, 07:27:38 PM
These are frankly excessive and unnecessary, sorry but I think that these are a bad idea.

I also agree
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 22, 2010, 11:22:28 PM
Does anyone see the possibility of an attack which summons another but weaker player controlled charachter.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Chrono on October 22, 2010, 11:34:57 PM
It is a good idea, but I see a few issues. First up, do you get to choose where to put your "shadow"? And if not, you need to make sure it doesn't land on, say, the cliff on Fawaz Gorge. It would be just like Luca's Juxtapose bug. Also, if you summon the main, for example, and have him die, will the safety bonus still take effect?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 22, 2010, 11:53:25 PM
The safety bonus will not, and the charachter is placed on player's choice of orthogonally adjacent tile out of those allowed.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 23, 2010, 02:46:36 AM
I've already suggested a similar attack !!!!!!!! It was shot down for being too similar to solid state sheild.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on October 23, 2010, 05:54:20 AM
Summoning is a pointless idea that would be out of place in TsoG, mess with the AI, and generally seem like it was created for the sake of a new attack, not really to help the game's depth and playability. They had the same move in Sinjid Shadow of the Warrior, and it was slightly better there; it fit better into the battle system, was controlled by a very simple AI, and had a backstory, and it still felt like a gimmicky attack
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 23, 2010, 09:01:19 AM
it would be player controlled.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 23, 2010, 09:23:14 AM
Does anyone see the possibility of an attack which summons another but weaker player controlled character.
KZ tried to convence Craig to make a Wood-Folk (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Wood-Folk) teammate who can summon pets.  Craig said it is possible to have three summons plus a Solid State Shield with the game engine.  The three suggested pets are a nymph (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Nymph), a tig (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Tig), and an unkown bird.

Back to topic: does anyone have any ideas for new attacks for teammates?  Do not suggest anymore summons, because the slots are filled.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 23, 2010, 10:37:02 AM
Luca: Ghost Feet

Increases Movement of Friendly Target by 1
Cost: (4*Current Move of Target(s)^1.5 / Original Move of Target(s)) rounded up. If it affects two, move formula is based on sums, as it takes more effort to boost two at once than one at a time.
Range: Forwards Diagonals
Backstory: As it turns out, Luca has discovered a way to combat the paralizing effects of Dark Breath, and to quicken slower units in battle by making their feet lighter, and infusing their legs with Psy Energy. However, this should be used sparingly, as the cost goes up dramatically if the unit wasn't already fast, and boosting more than one teammate at a time takes a serious toll on Luca.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 23, 2010, 12:02:51 PM
Luca: Ghost Feet

Increases Movement of Friendly Target by 1
Cost: (4*Current Move of Target(s)^1.5 / Original Move of Target(s)) rounded up. If it affects two, move formula is based on sums, as it takes more effort to boost two at once than one at a time.
Range: Forwards Diagonals
Backstory: As it turns out, Luca has discovered a way to combat the paralizing effects of Dark Breath, and to quicken slower units in battle by making their feet lighter, and infusing their legs with Psy Energy. However, this should be used sparingly, as the cost goes up dramatically if the unit wasn't already fast, and boosting more than one teammate at a time takes a serious toll on Luca.
The conditions sound overly complicated to program and the ability to increase a teammate's speed is too powerful.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on October 23, 2010, 12:05:55 PM
I think that increasing the speed by 1 is fine, but you should only be allowed to use this attack once per battle.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 23, 2010, 12:23:06 PM
The ability to increase a teammate's speed is too powerful? Then why is dark breath not too powerful an attack?

If it's not costly enough for you, I could change that, but I know for a fact that the calculations aren't difficult to program; the only thing I'm concerned about is the one condition, which you name as if it were many.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 23, 2010, 12:27:43 PM
I am sure that you guys have noticed the big difference in the Hero's lethality when Arman gives him an extra step.  The ability to increase all your teammates speeds by one seems too powerful.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 23, 2010, 02:00:36 PM
With the damage formula shown, the cost would increase dramatically as the speed went up, and units that are slow to begin with are more costly to boost.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on October 23, 2010, 03:31:31 PM
The ability to increase a teammate's speed is too powerful? Then why is dark breath not too powerful an attack?

Well, I don't see too many dark spirggats floating around and attacking people left and right. Besides even though it is a high cost, it is way to cheap. It is a good idea but it just can't work.

Luca: Rejuvenate

Effect: Restores Psy Points by Psy Power X 2.5 (rounded up)
Cost: 0
Range: Self
Backstory: Luca has always needed to restore a lot of Psy Points quickly but she can't always have a enemy in range for Soul Suck. With this attack, Luca can replenish Psy Points quicker and faster so she can use them or give them away.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 23, 2010, 07:23:31 PM
That sounds good but she can't just do that magically, tell us how.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 23, 2010, 08:30:01 PM
Backstory: Luca has always needed to restore a lot of Psy Points quickly but she can't always have a enemy in range for Soul Suck. With this attack, Luca can replenish Psy Points quicker and faster so she can use them or give them away.
She isn't out of range for soul suck very often.  She could also focus (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Focus) when she can't use soul suck.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 23, 2010, 08:36:10 PM
Oi! I'm still defending my idea, thank you very much!

What do you mean, "even though it is a high cost, it is way too cheap"? That's self-contradictory. Please explain what you mean.

And you only boost one or two teammates' speeds BY ONE at a time, at a high cost to Luca. For example, if the character starts with 5 speed, the cost of upping the speed by one is, progressively,

9, 12, 15, 19, and this soon becomes unreasonable and only applicable as a novelty, as should most powerful buffs like this. However, if your character has been hit by Dark Breath to the extent they can't move, and the Black Spriggat is slain, then the cost is

0 (shouldn't be much cost to shaking them out of a daze; if you have a problem with the cost of 0 at speed 0, I could add a y-intercept), 1, 3, 5, and 7 to get them back to full speed again, taking 5 turns and 16 PsP to get them there.

I would say its prohibitive cost at higher speeds makes it unuseful as a method of god-boosting your character while hiding behind a rock, then exploding across the battlefield at speeds unknown (you can already do that to a certain extent with Set; just use Static Shield and give yourself 1000 health; the idea of god-boosting isn't new), but good as a method of giving rahel just that extra square she needs to use Trueshaft and win the battle. As such, I am fully for Ghost Feet.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 23, 2010, 08:40:19 PM
You said it would become a novelty, then you said it would be helpful, which do you mean?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 23, 2010, 08:50:04 PM
You said it would become a novelty, then you said it would be helpful, which do you mean?
It would be a novelty, but in the rare cases when you can't use soul suck, you can focus.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 23, 2010, 08:56:02 PM
I guess that makes sense, thanks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 23, 2010, 09:06:59 PM
Were you referring to Zack's idea or mine?

'Cause I said that at much higher speeds than the character was originally intended to go, the cost becomes ridiculously high, impractical, and it is a "novelty" to have a Hero moving at speed 10. It would be very useful to be able to go that extra square, or unparalyze your charactre, though.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 23, 2010, 09:34:48 PM
That also makes sense and answers my question, thank you.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 24, 2010, 02:52:25 AM
Duckling: Rediculous.
Zach: I have to ask: Does Luca have a pocket of endless focus pills? Or how does she do it?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on October 24, 2010, 06:21:16 AM
Backstory: Luca has always needed to restore a lot of Psy Points quickly but she can't always have a enemy in range for Soul Suck. With this attack, Luca can replenish Psy Points quicker and faster so she can use them or give them away.
She isn't out of range for soul suck very often.  She could also focus (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Focus) when she can't use soul suck.

When I use Luca, she is usually behind my Light Based Hero, who is far from the fight. In my case she is usually not able to use Soul Suck and even if she did, I still only get 15 Psy Points, which gives me 17 (once I have used Light Bomb Twice) and I need to wait another turn to use it again. Also (My Luca has 15 Psy Power) only gets 15 Psy Points when she uses Soul Suck and 3 if she focuses. With this attack, I can get Luca to regain almost 37-38 Psy Points in one turn.

That sounds good but she can't just do that magically, tell us how.

She spends the turn hyper-focusing almost to the point of she forgets the world around her. She then enters an almost sub-awake state where she regains her Psy Points very quickly!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 24, 2010, 07:03:26 AM
So are you saying that there is a Psi Energy world?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on October 24, 2010, 07:04:09 AM
I dislike like Luca's focus move, because I feel that it needs a better explanation and it is the same thing as giving Luca a stronger focus strength.

Now, for Duckling's attack. I like it. I think that as im2smart4u said, the Hero becomes notably stronger when his speed increases by 1. I think that if the cost has a y-intercept of 3 or 2 added, the attack will be balanced in terms of reward and cost. It will make the 0 to 5 transition cost 31 instead of 15, but a 5 to 6 transition cost 12 instead of 9. This will make it so that it will be almost useless to god mod speeds (and I think there would be a 12 speed cap like in the last game), but the increase of 1 or 2 will be worth it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 24, 2010, 09:08:21 AM
When I use Luca, she is usually behind my Light Based Hero, who is far from the fight. In my case she is usually not able to use Soul Suck and even if she did, I still only get 15 Psy Points, which gives me 17 (once I have used Light Bomb Twice) and I need to wait another turn to use it again. Also (My Luca has 15 Psy Power) only gets 15 Psy Points when she uses Soul Suck and 3 if she focuses. With this attack, I can get Luca to regain almost 37-38 Psy Points in one turn.
That sounds too powerful.  No one should be able to fire Light Bombs over and over, while remaining out of range of enemy units.  Requiring Luca to steal PsP from enemy soilder is a balancing effect.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 24, 2010, 09:57:21 AM
I'm going to need to agree with im2smart4u on this. It seems to powerful. Soul Suck costs nothing but it remains limited by having a range and enemy required. Taking away Luca's needed range and enemy to steal from doesn't make her a battery, it makes her a power plant.

My verdict: Too Powerful and without a necessity to use. Nay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on October 24, 2010, 11:17:41 AM
I also vote nay. im2smart4u and...the former bugfartboy said it. An attack that allows you to rain light bombs on targets is overpowered.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 24, 2010, 11:20:53 AM
It doesn't rain light bombs. It gives Luca an unheard of psi regen. If she gets this, she will never be dry of Psi Points, and through the transitive property of equality, the Hero never will either, allowing him to decimate the opposition with no fear for himself or Luca.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on October 24, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Well, that's what I meant. Luca can gain psy points while the main fires a light bomb, transfer them to the main on the next turn, and, using the hold command, allow the main to fire another light bomb. Luca is supposed to be a support unit, not make the game insanely easy.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on October 24, 2010, 11:25:30 AM
Exactly. Methinks we are at an agreement here. Vote?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on October 24, 2010, 12:05:43 PM
NAYNAYNAYNAY!!!!


Only the yellow orb can do this for you.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 24, 2010, 12:17:45 PM
Nay. With three nays and zero yays, this idea is dead.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on October 24, 2010, 01:26:21 PM
Yeah this idea was kinda doomed, because there was no good explaination, let this serve as a reminder, there has to be a real explaination for all attacks and enemies.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: GOD on October 24, 2010, 02:07:11 PM
New attack:
Uber bomb
it hits all units, allies or not, for 5000 damage because its the uber form of mind blast, then it raises all the enemies speeds to 100 and makes them all attack each other, but not the healers!
This attacks is for Arman, and costs 5 psps
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on October 25, 2010, 11:31:44 AM
If possible, please Remove all your spammer related comments, since they ironically spammed up the topic.

Duskling and Bugfartboy still needs to remove their off topic threads, so I can delete this one.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on October 25, 2010, 04:14:21 PM
^^ Done ^^
Make sure you remove that post too though, because ironically your response to the off topic responses to the off-topic post is off topic. And my replying is off-topic, which will just make it more confusing when the next poster tries to tell me that. To avoid this, I'll get OT.

Now, I feel that, in terms of number of moves, Luca, the Hero, and Set are all pretty much done. In addition, Griffin, Rahel, the Spearman, the Spriggat, and Malis are close to being complete or completed because they have an acceptable number of moves, and seem to fill their current niche up in the sense that they all basically have the most complete set of attacks for their class. Arman and the potential Gelf seem to be the only ones lacking in moves. At the moment, both have the lowest number of moves (I don't know how many moves the Gelf will have for certain), and no moves for them have been put in the Formulated thread.

We can still disuss Luca's move to increase a friendly units speed, because that got derailed, if we would like.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on November 10, 2010, 02:43:00 PM
Red Spriggat:  Heat Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Heat_Shield). Also The Red and White Spriggats could level up their shields into the greater versions (Inferno Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Inferno_Shield) and Glacial Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Glacial_Shield))
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 10, 2010, 03:11:32 PM
Hmm... I guess if they can already heal, they should be able to bestow resistance.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on November 10, 2010, 06:52:05 PM
Red Spriggat:  Heat Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Heat_Shield). Also The Red and White Spriggats could level up their shields into the greater versions (Inferno Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Inferno_Shield) and Glacial Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Glacial_Shield))
The problem with Spriggats having elemental shields is that it unbalances the elements for the Hero.  The Heat and Cold elements for the Hero would be less significant because the spriggat classes would already be able to do it, but unable to do the light or shadow shields.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on November 11, 2010, 09:53:46 AM
Red Spriggat:  Heat Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Heat_Shield). Also The Red and White Spriggats could level up their shields into the greater versions (Inferno Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Inferno_Shield) and Glacial Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Glacial_Shield))
The problem with Spriggats having elemental shields is that it unbalances the elements for the Hero.  The Heat and Cold elements for the Hero would be less significant because the spriggat classes would already be able to do it, but unable to do the light or shadow shields.
I am in agreement. However, if Malis was given the Dark Shield and Nightmare Shield (I think those are the names, but I use Light in my files, so I could be wrong), and another teammate, prehaps Set, or a teammate we haven't been given, got the Light versions, would you give the idea a "yay" vote?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on November 11, 2010, 12:01:39 PM
That makes sense, I'm sure that if their is a Pryo, Cryo, and Shadow based teamate, then Craig has made a light based teamate. If he hasn't, that would make Light the best element to pick, as no other teamate would be light.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 11, 2010, 03:38:14 PM
Even if he wasn't an extreme pacifist, he wouldn't be strong enough to use the blast, but he would be capable of the shield. I mean, it has to be easier than the blast anyway, right?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on November 11, 2010, 07:38:17 PM
Even if he wasn't an extreme pacifist, he wouldn't be strong enough to use the blast, but he would be capable of the shield. I mean, it has to be easier than the blast anyway, right?
Well, Set is not a weak psy. His inability to preform mental attacks is due to his own pacifism. In his own way (healing), he is stronger than Duvalier. He should be able to develop an affinity of sorts, and light seems to make sense. Especially because Anya, who is also a healing-only character, got light resistance
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 11, 2010, 08:29:53 PM
But Anya, unlike Set, had mind blast. She was not a healing only character.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on November 13, 2010, 10:27:50 AM
Yes, but no player characters were fully defensive in TRPG2.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on November 13, 2010, 02:08:01 PM
Red Spriggat:  Heat Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Heat_Shield). Also The Red and White Spriggats could level up their shields into the greater versions (Inferno Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Inferno_Shield) and Glacial Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Glacial_Shield))
The problem with Spriggats having elemental shields is that it unbalances the elements for the Hero.  The Heat and Cold elements for the Hero would be less significant because the spriggat classes would already be able to do it, but unable to do the light or shadow shields.
I am in agreement. However, if Malis was given the Dark Shield and Nightmare Shield (I think those are the names, but I use Light in my files, so I could be wrong), and another teammate, prehaps Set, or a teammate we haven't been given, got the Light versions, would you give the idea a "yay" vote?
We don't know if we get both/either a Red and/or Frost Spriggat.  It would be silly to suggest giving Malis and Set elemental shields based off of a hypothetical assumption.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on November 15, 2010, 05:54:32 PM
The elemental shields would be nice anyways and we're pretty sure that a spright of some sort will be added.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 15, 2010, 07:09:59 PM
Namelesskitty, im2smart4u resigned. From now on, we need to be careful and pre-evaluate ideas. We are pretty much on our own. Let's step back and look at the idea. Does it make solid logical sense? Does the game necessarily need it? Are we doing this because we feel it needs it or because we just want it? Just trying to fill the gaping void.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on November 21, 2010, 09:00:07 PM
(No name yet)

Luca:
Cost: 14
Effect: Takes all of 1 enemy's movement points away for the following turn, and recieve 4 HP for each movement point.

Honestly, I'm kind of doubtful about this one, but I figured since Luca is a buff unit, she might as well have a unique attack. Other move-debilitating attacks are permanent, but smaller, and this is full immobilization, but only for one turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on November 21, 2010, 09:12:28 PM
I think that we should avoid attacks that mess with enemy speed. They seem too cheap, even if they benefit the enemy in some way. Try suggesting another attack for another character.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on November 21, 2010, 09:25:17 PM
Oh, right. I forgot that enemy speed isn't as easy to change as player speed.

How about an attack for Malis?

Cost: 8
Req: Enemy may be 2 spaces ahead; empty must be 1 space ahead
Effect: Malis goes into shadowport, but instead of going the full 3 squares, she goes two forward, partially materializes, dealing damage, and falls back a square where she comes out of shadowport.
Element: Light?

I have always wondered about the bright lights emanating from the shadowlings when going in and out of Shadowport. This would appear to be a Light-based ability, and so could possibly be the basis of a Light attack accessible to a well-trained shadowling...?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 22, 2010, 06:14:12 AM
So she shadowports forward, attacks, and shadowports again? I don't like it. It seems way too much for even a shadowling to pull off in a single turn. And it would have to have a crazy cost.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Chrono on November 22, 2010, 12:29:10 PM
Shadowporting is already good enough; it's not like u can't attack after you do. I don't see the need for this.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 22, 2010, 02:35:31 PM
Shall we take a vote? Nay
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on November 22, 2010, 03:58:45 PM
I agree this is excessive and unusefull. Big fat nay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on November 22, 2010, 04:18:10 PM
Nay. Too many attacks in one turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on November 22, 2010, 06:37:30 PM
Sorry; I forgot once more that shadowporting doesn't end one's turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 22, 2010, 09:17:03 PM
The Nays have it. Idea rejected. Sorry Ducky.

Elemental Blast 2-The user hurls (insert element here) farther than normal. But this extra range renders it weaker than it's shorter range component.

Range: 3
Formula: (Varies with element with shadow being the weakest)
Cost: 10 (9 for shadow affinity)

OOOOO
OOXOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OODOO
OOOOO
The basic diagram. O's are unaffected, D is Duvalier facing north, and X is the affected square. What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Cypher on November 23, 2010, 12:43:48 PM
For Rahel:
Kick

Range:1
Formula:(working on it)
Cost:0

OOOOO
OOXOO
OOROO
OOOOO

Thoughts, folks?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 23, 2010, 03:25:37 PM
The formula would need to make it relativly weak. Rahel is a ranged unit so any short range would need to be weak.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on November 23, 2010, 04:06:51 PM
Elemental Blast 2-The user hurls (insert element here) farther than normal. But this extra range renders it weaker than it's shorter range component.

Range: 3
Formula: (Varies with element with shadow being the weakest)
Cost: 10 (9 for shadow affinity)

OOOOO
OOXOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OODOO
OOOOO
The basic diagram. O's are unaffected, D is Duvalier facing north, and X is the affected square. What are your thoughts?

Nay. What does adding one more range going to do? It can still do less damage but their really isn't a need for it. Its like have element attack that only goes one range. Really in the end their is no need for it. Also: The Hero has 13-14 of the 15 attacks planned out (Mind Blast, Feedback, Vengeance, Vendetta(?), Mind Shield, Mega Shield, Long Shield, Big Shield, Titan Shield, Elemental Attack, Elemental Area Attack, Elemental Shield, Elemental Area Shield, Kinfe). I think Craig has the last attacks of Duvalier planned out.

For Rahel:
Kick

Range:1
Formula:(working on it)
Cost:0

OOOOO
OOXOO
OOROO
OOOOO

Thoughts, folks?

Nay. Why would Rahel need an attack that was only one range. She is more useful when used at Ranged Combat, that what she is meant for. I mean, its like Griffin a Ranged attack. They don't fit their class types.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on November 23, 2010, 09:02:53 PM
Hmm..

What about Backshield for Arman? Like backhander for Griffin, but a low-power, niche move of a different sort. He shields the space one behind him by .5*Strength + .75*Psy Defense. Strength is a component because Arman's mental capacity for Gift ("His mind is closed tighter than a vise") uses is more of a physical thing, as it came with no Psy training.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 23, 2010, 09:55:55 PM
How does he shield himself?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on November 23, 2010, 11:32:18 PM
Wait, your explaination is confuzzling, restate it more clearly for me please.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on November 24, 2010, 12:34:00 AM
It's in English. You're acting like it's in Latin.

Buggy, he doesn't shield himself. And he probably won't, seeing as this idea, along with every other one of my teammate attacks ideas, will go down in flames. The idea is that he's developed a sense of precaution against everything in behind to such an extent that he can actually shield a bit in that direction. It would be useful in scenarios like in the 6-man mercenary battle in the prison, where one has to rush out, assassinate an enemy, and get back to Set for healing. If Set had been injured, Arman could heal him. He could also heal Rahel behind him if he needed. I do admit it's niche, and probably doesn't fit Mr. Stern's ideas about Arman's Gift, so let's just drop it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 24, 2010, 08:17:17 AM
Alright then. Idea unofficially dead. Reason: Dropped by designer.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on November 24, 2010, 01:43:57 PM
Zackirus covered my issues with "(No name yet)", Elemental Blast 2, and Kick.

Duckling, who has ever heard of a healing asssssin?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on November 25, 2010, 06:34:02 PM
I side with im2smart4u on this, it just seems unassasiny.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 25, 2010, 06:59:47 PM
And rediculous. There is no proper explanation as to how and why it would work. If you didn't get from my earlier posts, Nay
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on November 26, 2010, 02:06:57 PM
When the forum was just started, their was an idea for a Pre-Elemental Area Attack for Duvalier. Most people agreed to this but the ideas were forgotten. However, most people agreed that Pyro Hail was the Pre-Elemental Area attack and that Fire Gate should be the Area Attack. The attacks were:

Light Ring

Range: Omnidirectional
Cost: 11
Damage: Psy Power + Light Ring Level + 2

OOOOO
OXXXO
OXDXO
OXXXO
OOOOO

Shadow Star

Range: *See Diagram
Cost: 12
Damage: Psy Power + Shadow Star Level + 2

OOOOO
OXOXO
OOXOO
OXOXO
OODOO
OOOOO

Cryo Wake

Range: *See Diagram
Cost: 11
Damage: Psy Power + (1.5 X Cryo Wake Level) + 3

OOOOO
OOXOO
OOXOO
XXDXX
OOXOO
OOXOO
OOOOO

Fire Gate

Range: *See Diagram
Cost: 19
Damage: Psy Power + Fire Gate Level + 2

OOOOO
OXXXO
OXXXO
OXXXO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OODOO
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on November 26, 2010, 03:47:58 PM
When the forum was just started, their was an idea for a Pre-Elemental Area Attack for Duvalier. Most people agreed to this but the ideas were forgotten. However, most people agreed that Pyro Hail was the Pre-Elemental Area attack and that Fire Gate should be the Area Attack. The attacks were:
I remember more people rejected or ignored the attacks then agreed with them.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 26, 2010, 03:55:13 PM
Could you give me a link to the records of these attacks?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on November 26, 2010, 04:03:27 PM
http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=25.msg3185#msg3185 (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=25.msg3185#msg3185)

im2smart4u: nobody shot down the idea, we just changed some of the attacks.The forum members at the time (who were talking about it) never said they hated it.

Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 27, 2010, 09:40:10 PM
Of the ideas resuggested by Zack, I have but one issue and it is with the Cryo Wake attack. It seems to have a range too similar to Cryo Cross. If it were different such as:

XOOOX
OXOXO
OODOO
OXOXO
XOOOX

Then I might like it. And why would light ring be less costly than shadow star? It seems to cover more range. Or is it because it is very close range and shadow star can reach up to three spaces away?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on November 28, 2010, 09:01:15 AM
If these are pre-affinity how do you know which you get?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 28, 2010, 10:37:49 AM
They are not Pre-affinity. They are Pre-area attacks. You get tees before you get the other area attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on November 28, 2010, 10:46:01 AM
Honestly, I would rather have Shockwave than a pre-area attack.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on November 28, 2010, 10:50:50 AM
I kinda like the idea of Pre-Area attacks, but its such a big change in game design that we should probably ask Craig before considering it. It would add variety to attacks, balance the affinities, and be a suitable transition from only being able to affect on space two squares in front of you to being able to hurl a 3X3 square of light three spaces in front of you.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 28, 2010, 11:53:45 AM
Very well. I shall ask Craig about them if no one has done so already.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on November 30, 2010, 08:30:26 PM
Does anyone think that a powerful Hero wouldn't be complete without a movement ability such as Juxtapose, Leap, Shadowport, but something new?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on November 30, 2010, 08:37:21 PM
No. Most of the attack spots are already full and the game is near done. I think Craig knows what he has planned out. He needs no such thing.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on November 30, 2010, 09:48:55 PM
No. Most of the attack spots are already full and the game is near done.
Only one of those statements is true, the other is speculation. However, you can change attack spaces, for example, if you don't like Mind Shield and would like Dark Vortex instead, you can get Mind Shield out of the space, and replace it with Dark Vortex. I'm pretty sure that the game isn't nearly done, from what Craig has shown so far.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on December 01, 2010, 07:09:37 PM
Exactly. And there are 23 total attack spaces, counting the occupiable ones.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on December 01, 2010, 07:55:46 PM
In other words don't make unsupported claims because everyone hates that.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on December 01, 2010, 08:48:26 PM
Yes they do. Now leave that conversation in it's appropriate thread. I do not always bring it up.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on December 02, 2010, 06:50:45 PM
I'm not sure what you meant, please clarify that for me.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on December 12, 2010, 10:08:44 PM
Nay. I just doesn't seem like the type of attack the hero would have. I'm sorry but it just doesn't seem to fit.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Duskling on December 12, 2010, 10:29:15 PM
I think if an attack like that were to exist, Energy Golems wouldn't, nay.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on December 13, 2010, 11:32:59 AM
No. Most of the attack spots are already full and the game is near done. I think Craig knows what he has planned out. He needs no such thing.
I also think Criag has already planned what attacks he is going to give the teammates by now, so most suggestions do seem redundant.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Chrono on December 14, 2010, 05:41:09 PM
Well, it seems that more than 10 pages appeared after a month... What did I miss?

I agree with Buggy and im2smart4u. There's really no point in posting anything here unless we're talking about TRPG4. We would be better off making a new thread.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on December 28, 2010, 08:45:53 PM
This idea goes back to Trpg 2.Remember Nelis(Shadowling Queen i think)had the attacks Holy Blast and Fire Gate!
Supose my hero is fire based!And reaches high level would be cool if it learned Fire Gate!But not at levels like 20.Then the playears would be independent.By high level i mean 50!Same with light based hero!
And here are some supreme Ice and Dark attacks:

Artic Wind
Range:All battlefield
Damage:Grows with use!Base:20
Psy points to use:50

Dark Void:
Range1-5 Tiles away from hero!
Damage:20
Psy points to use:50!
Well, although I don't think this would be the right topic to post in, I've thought of some supreme elemental attacks for bosses:

Freeze
Element: Cryo
Range: UOX (Unit facing right)
Damage: None
Effect: Freezes the target and puts it out of play, but remains in the battlefield as an obstacle that can be leapt on


Blind
Element: Shadow
Range: Same as above
Damage: 5
Effect: Make the tile target is on become black (target also black) and the direction the target is facing is reset.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on December 28, 2010, 08:49:47 PM
1) I don't understand the ranges. Can you make a diagram?
2) Most of the attack slots have been filled already.
3) We really like formulas here.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on December 28, 2010, 08:57:10 PM
Freeze range: OXO
                   OOO
                   OUO
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on December 28, 2010, 09:07:03 PM
So it would basically be range 2? What would the point be?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on December 28, 2010, 09:12:44 PM
Well, if you 'froze' the unit in front of you, it would be blocking you the next turn. So why not make it range 2 so that the next turn you could get out of the way easier?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on December 28, 2010, 09:14:36 PM
No. No attacks that mess with enemy AI.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on December 28, 2010, 09:21:58 PM
AI? What's that?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on December 28, 2010, 09:27:18 PM
This is not the attacks for enemies thread, please fix your double post, and AI is what the enemies run on. It's what makes their decisions. Sorry if I seem to be nagging.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on December 28, 2010, 10:32:33 PM
Er... is there an enemy attacks thread?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on December 28, 2010, 10:40:55 PM
Yes there is. You just need to dig a little to find it.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Steelfist on December 28, 2010, 10:43:39 PM
Use search!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on December 29, 2010, 07:03:39 AM
Uh, look HERE (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=213.0)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on January 01, 2011, 01:30:31 AM
Sorta thought out and seems slightly reasonable. But I don't mind I'd it doesn't make in into TSoG. Just an idea to put out there:

Redirect- The user maintains a long distance shield that converts damage that would be done into a Psi point cost at a certain rate.
Type:Shield
User:Set
Using range:1
Redirection range: within 4 spaces of user
Initial cost:5
Damage conversion rate: 2:1, damage:cost (rounded up when necessary)

What do you think? The turn that the one Set used it on goes put of range, the redirection is severed. And Set would only be able to support one at a time and only learn this at maybe 20 psi power and 25 psi defense. Thoughts?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on January 01, 2011, 01:32:52 AM
Don't understand the effect, sorry.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on January 01, 2011, 01:38:12 AM
Alright. Set uses it on an ally, say Griffin. It costs him 5 Psi points initially to use it. And then say Griffin starts fighting a swordsman. But instead of Griffin taking damage, Set is slowly drained of Psi points based on how much damage the Swordsman attempts to do to Griffin at the rate of 6 damage costs 3 Psi points to redirect. But then, say Griffin goes outside of Set's range of 4 spaces. With Griffin outside his range, he can't redirect the damage Griffin would take, so the connection is severed and Set must use Redirect on Griffin again to resume protecting him from a distance. Does that make sense?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on January 01, 2011, 05:32:50 AM
Ah. Ingenious!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on January 01, 2011, 08:58:57 AM
But as I said, I don't mind if it doesn't make it into TSoG. I jut thought I'd put it out there for the current or a future game.

-Edit-
If not for Set, maybe an enemy healer in a boss battle could use this? Oh wait. Never mind. Then the boss would be invincible unless you take down the healer. Wait. That might accually be kinda cool! Kinda like a telepathic shield generator from a Star Wars movie.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: HeadShot on January 02, 2011, 11:55:22 AM
New La'Man Move:

Pyro Bomb:

Effect: Damage

Damage: Depending on Psy Power. Mainly does 18.

Range:
X=Free
E=Enemy
L=La'Man
XEX
XEX
XEX
XEX
XEX
XLX

Naj:

Avalanche Shield:

Effect: Mainly Heals by 27.

Range:
X=Free
U=Ally
N=Naj
UUU
UUU
UUU
XNX
UXU
XXU
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on January 02, 2011, 12:17:31 PM
Why is it necessary? How does it work? Can you create a formula for these moves? What would the Psi cost be? What is their purpose? Did you really think them out all the way? And what do you think on Redirection?
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: cyso on January 02, 2011, 02:09:11 PM
Redirection would be kind of cool for a boss fight (maybe), but it seems a little bit too powerful for one of the Main's teammates to use.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on January 02, 2011, 02:16:07 PM
Maybe if Set had a smaller range. Or maybe if the cost to absorb damage were higher. Hmm.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: TheWanderingShadow on January 07, 2011, 08:54:11 PM
maybe 2 psy points for each point of damage, because by the time Set learns something as powerful as that, he probably has quite a lot of Psy points. I don't know it sounds pretty cheap otherwise.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on January 07, 2011, 09:44:54 PM
How about this: You can heal about 10-13 damage for 3 Psi points when you first get Set. So when you look at it in context, the price to absorb damage is actually pretty steep.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Chrono on January 07, 2011, 10:21:44 PM
Nay for this idea, sorry. The idea of this game is to use more strategy and keep your teammates alive, not to have Griffin charging in blindly while Set sets up a shield around him. It sounds too cheap, even if we use 2 psy points per damage.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on January 07, 2011, 10:31:04 PM
Set would need to stick his neck out too. He wouldn't be able to just sit in a corner, twiddling his thumbs, and protect Griffin, who is on the other side of the map, while Luca pumps him full of energy turn after turn.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Chrono on January 07, 2011, 10:33:46 PM
4 spaces is more than enough to do that. I'm pretty sure you still have other teammates to cover his back. Plus, by the time you get 25 Psy Defense, Set would probably have... 33 health, which is actually enough to last a while.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on January 09, 2011, 01:04:09 AM
I think it almost time for this topic to retire.  The suggestions are getting worst and worst, because all of the good, simple ideas are already in the game or have already been suggested.  All the new suggestions are either overly complex effects that are not worth programming or they are over the top area attacks.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on January 09, 2011, 06:29:40 AM
Actually, all those 'new ideas' should be retiring as the game is almost finished.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zackirus on January 09, 2011, 07:08:24 AM
I agree, if Craig wants to add any new attacks to the game, it will be from his own mind, not from this thread.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: ArtDrake on January 09, 2011, 08:03:42 AM
Not even if it's a new attack for Griffin called Chop where he hits the guy in front for double damage, and the guy to the left of him for regular---


okay... I agree; Craig's probably not going to get many any ideas from here in the near future.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: SmartyPants on February 12, 2011, 09:06:35 PM
Though to be fair, I think that Luca'ra'il needs to have Lucent Shield, and Malis should have Dark Shield, to balance out with La'Man and Naj...

Luca'ra'il: Light Blast, Light Bomb, (Nothing)
Naj: Frost Breath, Frost Breath 2, Frost Shield
La'Man: Fire Breath, Fire Breath 2, Heat Shield
Malis: Shadow Blast, Feedback, (Nothing)
I know we agreed to shut down this topic, because all the new suggestions were "either overly complex effects that are not worth programming or they are over the top area attacks", but suggesting Lucent Shield for Luca'ra'il and Dark Shield for Malis don't seem to fit either of those categories.  Both Lucent Shield and Dark Shield are reasonable suggestions and have already been created for Psy Fighters in TPA2 and for the Hero in TSoG.

Lucent Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Lucent_Shield) for Luca/Luca'ra'il:
Yay:
*Zackirus
*im2smart4u
*bugfartboy
*Chrono
*Steelfist
*Idozen Cair
*MikeW781

Nay:
N/A

Dark Shield (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Shield) for Malis:
Yay:
*Zackirus
*im2smart4u
*bugfartboy
*Chrono
*Steelfist
*Idozen Cair
*MikeW781

Nay:
N/A
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on February 12, 2011, 09:07:38 PM
I thought I had given support to them but I vote yay for both.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Chrono on February 13, 2011, 12:17:19 AM
Same, yay for both.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Steelfist on February 13, 2011, 07:52:06 AM
Yay for both.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on February 13, 2011, 10:04:24 AM
Yay for both, me too!
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: MikeW781 on February 13, 2011, 10:25:47 AM
I support both ideas.
With 7 yay votes and no nay votes, I think im2smart4u can formulate the idea.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Zhampir on April 06, 2011, 12:40:26 AM
So... hey guys, haven't been on in awhile. Distracted with a multitude of other things. Admittedly, mostly minecraft. Lol
Anyways last I remember I proposed an idea about buffs/debuffs on the basis of elemental weakness/resistance, and we were considering the possibility of mastering multiple elements, honestly I don't know how the game or the forums views have changed since then... and as I believe we were around page twenty of this one singular topic I don't really wish to read through all 40+ pages to find out... so I'm just going to throw out a few ideas here.

Shadow and Light
1st turn, charge Darkness (can more)
2nd; unleash darkness (applies Shade's Veil effect which grants a chance to miss upon victims, can move)
3rd charge and rest (can't move)
4th; unless Blazing Light (applies Whiteout effect which grants a chance to miss upon nor darkened characters, darkened characters will be instantly healed)
both effect will dimish with time as the effected's eyes readjust.

Fire and Ice
1st turn; absorbs heat into self doing frost damage
(absorbing can be done multiple times but energy gained from the same character will diminish)
2nd turn; unleshes stored heat (damage done is proportional to the amount of heat absorbed)
Notice, you could turn friendly fire on, absorb enough heat from your alies to kill them and unleash it all upon the enemy, a dark and dirty move used only by the most twisted of telepaths.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on April 06, 2011, 03:57:22 AM
Eh... but haven't we talked about buffs and weaknesses already? I recall it was ultimately rejected.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on April 06, 2011, 05:38:19 AM
Hey Zhampir. Probably don't remember me. Nice to see you again. I think we (meaning the majority of active members) all pretty much agreed that this thread was dead.

*psst* Craig doesn't want to do di rolls. Remember?

On a side note, how's minecraft. You get beta? (I'll start a thread for it.)
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: Idozen Cair on June 20, 2011, 02:33:29 AM
If I recall well, only 1 SS Shield can exist on the battlefield right? I don't think it's useful that way, as blocking only one path does not help me much (yes this is according to my experience) I think that removing the limit of SS Shields would be much better.
Title: Re: New attacks for teammates
Post by: bugfartboy on June 20, 2011, 10:31:51 AM
Idozen Cair, thread is dead. Sorry. It's been killed off.