The Sinister Design Forums

Games => TRPG2 => Topic started by: SmartyPants on February 19, 2010, 04:09:34 PM

Title: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on February 19, 2010, 04:09:34 PM
I think the bugs in the Telepath Universe are eusocial like ants and bees. The Bug Queens, like ant queens and bee queens, are the mothers of all the bugs.  Shadow Bugs and Nymphs are the same species, but they each have different roles in the colony. Bugs are in almost every region of Cera Bella. Each region has its own Bug Queen and its own colony. There is likely three bug queens; one in the Deeper Downs, one in the Great Forest, and one in the Ashwan Desert.  When a queen dies, one of her pupa would grow to replace her.


The Bug Queen is the mother of all bugs. She lays the eggs that are the first stage in all the bugs' lives. All the eggs will hatch to become larva. Most larvas will become pupas and evolve into Nymphs, but some specially feed larva will become Bug Queens after their pupa stage. When the larvas metamorphose into Nymphs, its newly developed brain gives it psy capabilities like Mega Shield. Nymphs are responsible for taking care of eggs and larva. They are also in charge of healing and shielding other members of the colony. A small number of Nymphs will mate with the Bug Queen. After the Nymphs stage is the Shadow Bug stage. When they become Shadow Bugs, their brains become more primitive and incapable of using shields. The Nymph's blue exoskeleton is molted for a thinner black shell. The new exoskeleton may not be as strong, but it helps the predator camouflage into its dark environment. While the Nymph stage is responsible for healing and nurturing the colonies, the Shadow Bug stage is suppose to hunt for food, to protect the colony, and to dig more territory. As predators, Shadow Bugs are better at attacking then the other stages (except for the Queen).
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Ertxiem on February 28, 2010, 04:36:27 PM
It doesn't make much sense that the Shadow Bugs have the responsibility to protect the colony, since they have a thinner exoskeleton and are weaker than the Nymphs. Perhaps there are Soldier Bugs as well, stronger and with thicker exoskeleton and perhaps having also psy attacks.

The problem with the Soldier Bugs theory is that we didn't saw any of them in TRPG2... perhaps we went too quickly through the tunnels and managed to skip the soldiers.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: KZ on March 01, 2010, 12:52:31 PM
Well, Ertxiem, there is something inteeresting that came up in the new enemies thread which just might address the issue: the Void Bug, proposed by steelfist. Effectively, it is an upgrade to a Shadow Bug in a sense that those bugs are simply older Shadow Bugs and are much more experienced, one of the most successful hunters, fighters or simply good bug specimens, who are taken with the task of protecting the nest from significant dangers. And the reason why we dont' see any of those bugs in Deeper Downs because the colony there is relatively yong, such that there are no Shadow Bugs who have already reached such a stage of maturity and experience where they can be considered as Void Bugs.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Zackirus on March 20, 2010, 01:31:58 PM
Speaking of Bugs, I went and greated my own bug: The Glare (seen in the new enemy ideas) and after this I thought, hey if their are 3 queens (at least to Im2smart4u) shouldn't we design more bug queens and bus to go with this............

Just and Idea though, I would like it though
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on March 20, 2010, 02:32:12 PM
Speaking of Bugs, I went and greated my own bug: The Glare (seen in the new enemy ideas) and after this I thought, hey if their are 3 queens (at least to Im2smart4u) shouldn't we design more bug queens and bus to go with this............
I am not changing my theory until new bugs are in-game. That means no Void Bug and no Glare.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Zackirus on March 20, 2010, 02:45:18 PM
Speaking of Bugs, I went and greated my own bug: The Glare (seen in the new enemy ideas) and after this I thought, hey if their are 3 queens (at least to Im2smart4u) shouldn't we design more bug queens and bus to go with this............
I am not changing my theory until new bugs are in-game. That means no Void Bug and no Glare.

The Void Bug changes your theory by adding  bug that protects the queen. My Glare is a simple bug that lives in the desert around Rubat (it doesn't conflict with your theory at all)
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Presentiment on March 20, 2010, 02:50:51 PM
I hope everyone realizes this whole 'theory' is just a summary of bees' hives.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: KZ on March 20, 2010, 03:05:43 PM
I hope everyone realizes this whole 'theory' is just a summary of bees' hives.
If you look at how im2smart4u's post begins, anyone reading it thoroughly, even if they were not aware of how bee hives function, would realize that this is what he's talking about.

The Void Bug doesn't contradict the theory, Zackirus,  since the Shadow Bug stage comes after the Nymph stage. All it simply does is form an "elite" Shadow Bug class, (e.g. like Ravinale Elite) which is called upon to solve problems which don't crop up daily and which the Shadow Bugs ahve more trouble dealing with. Protecting the Queen can be just one of many uses for them.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Presentiment on March 20, 2010, 05:46:25 PM
I hope everyone realizes this whole 'theory' is just a summary of bees' hives.
If you look at how im2smart4u's post begins, anyone reading it thoroughly, even if they were not aware of how bee hives function, would realize that this is what he's talking about.

And he only says it is similar, while it is merely a 'fill in the blanks'.

Thus rendering the bottom of the post meaningless and the beginning offering no insight.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: KZ on March 20, 2010, 06:00:46 PM
I have faith in folks who visit the forums to have intelligence enough to relaise it, without the need for someone to state the obvious, whilst not offering anything new, or even ageeing with discussion at hand.

Back on topic: im2msart4u, do you find that the Void Bug, or the Glare, or both, contradict the bug theory in some fundamental way? Will it really be required to change to a great degree?
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on March 20, 2010, 06:14:22 PM
I hope everyone realizes this whole 'theory' is just a summary of bees' hives.
I don't think you understand how bee hives works, so don't misinform people.  My bug theory says that different stages of the bugs have different roles, while real bee hives have different bugs born for different purposes.  

Back on topic: im2smart4u, do you find that the Void Bug, or the Glare, or both, contradict the bug theory in some fundamental way? Will it really be required to change to a great degree?
The Void Bug could be a stage after the Shadow Bug or something like that.  From my understanding from Zackirus description of the Glare, I think the Glare, like the Desert Scorpion, is separate from the bug colony.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Presentiment on March 20, 2010, 06:29:25 PM
I hope everyone realizes this whole 'theory' is just a summary of bees' hives.
I don't think you understand how bee hives works, so don't misinform people.  My bug theory says that different stages of the bugs have different roles, while real bee hives have different bugs born for different purposes.  

It can be explained either way, there is no real difference. For example, the Shadow Bugs' dark coloring could simply be because they were born to be soldiers/harvesters, and Nymphs could have white shells as a result of having a carapace formed from dried minerals.

A colony in which roles changes with age would be less evolutionarily viable than how the bees do it, as it requires a very specific mortality rate to keep the ratio between Shadow Bugs/Nymphs efficient.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on April 03, 2010, 06:17:37 PM
Here is another part of the bug theory, so tell me what you think.
When the larva hatchs from the eggs, the first brain wave that contacts them is recognized as their Queen and master.  If the master dies, the next creature to contact the bugs will become the new master.  If a Bug Queen's eggs are stolen and the eggs hatch outside the presence of the Bug Queen, a human or wood-folk could contact the newly born larva to make the bug its servant.  If a larva changes into a Bug Queen, then it will become an independent thinker and will be a servant to no one. This theory would explain why bugs fight alongside all the races in the Coliseum.  This would also explain how the wood-folk make the bugs their pets.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: WeBing on April 04, 2010, 09:53:31 PM
I like the concept, but what mechanism would the bugs have to receiving others' 'brain waves'? What would prevent something from Contacting the bug before the Queen does? Does it mean all bugs are psys?

Or perhaps we could explain it this way: Shadow Bugs are the females and Nymphs are the males [irony cough cough but it is better explained this way]. The bugs form no lasting bonds, and Nymphs can mate with multiple Shadow Bugs (but it is still a colony). They change genders depending on how many offspring they can produce (if there are too many Shadow Bugs some Shadow Bugs will turn into Nymphs to take advantage of it), which explains the abundance of Shadow Bugs versus Nymphs.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Zhampir on April 05, 2010, 03:36:58 AM
sounds like toads, or is it sea-horses? or both? ah well. Either way, I think the way the bugs work should be similar to how they work in real life, not as amphibians or mammals or fish or birds, but insects.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on April 05, 2010, 01:33:52 PM
I like the concept, but what mechanism would the bugs have to receiving others' 'brain waves'? What would prevent something from Contacting the bug before the Queen does? Does it mean all bugs are psys?
The Bug Queen and her colony would kill anyone who trespasses in the area.

Or perhaps we could explain it this way: Shadow Bugs are the females and Nymphs are the males [irony cough cough but it is better explained this way]. The bugs form no lasting bonds, and Nymphs can mate with multiple Shadow Bugs (but it is still a colony). They change genders depending on how many offspring they can produce (if there are too many Shadow Bugs some Shadow Bugs will turn into Nymphs to take advantage of it), which explains the abundance of Shadow Bugs versus Nymphs.
They can't be two different genders, because a Nymph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymph_(biology)) has to metamorph into something.
There could be more shadow bugs then nymphs, because the Nymph stage is shorter then the Shadow Bug stage.  It is similar to why there are more human adults then children.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: WeBing on April 05, 2010, 07:08:10 PM
I meant, what prevents another bug from contacting the larvae?

You also can't just judge something by its name. Would you believe me if I labeled your trash as gold?

From what we've observed, there are fewer Nymphs than Shadow Bugs.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on April 05, 2010, 07:58:46 PM
I meant, what prevents another bug from contacting the larvae?
The non-queen bugs don't have a mind that can use contact.

You also can't just judge something by its name. Would you believe me if I labeled your trash as gold?
So the Nymph could be a misleading name and the creature really is a shadowling pirate.  ::)
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: WeBing on April 05, 2010, 09:27:03 PM
I meant, what prevents another bug from contacting the larvae?
The non-queen bugs don't have a mind that can use contact.

Yet they can receive contacts? Perhaps they lose their psy abilities with growth, or they are repressed?

You also can't just judge something by its name. Would you believe me if I labeled your trash as gold?
So the Nymph could be a misleading name and the creature really is a shadowling pirate.  ::)

Yes, for all we know.

However, it could easily be an ironic name, or a reference to the nymphs of Greek mythology.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on April 06, 2010, 12:31:24 PM
I meant, what prevents another bug from contacting the larvae?
The non-queen bugs don't have a mind that can use contact.
Yet they can receive contacts? Perhaps they lose their psy abilities with growth, or they are repressed?
The Librarian was able to receive contact without being able to use the ability herself.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Steel Ersatz Man on April 06, 2010, 12:46:56 PM
I think the Nymphs are larvae which are born with a heavy armour coating and less speed to protect itself, shadow bugs are adults who have shed the armour for speed and the queens are just REALLY big shadowling bugs.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Tinkerbell on April 13, 2010, 10:48:29 PM
I meant, what prevents another bug from contacting the larvae?
The non-queen bugs don't have a mind that can use contact.
Yet they can receive contacts? Perhaps they lose their psy abilities with growth, or they are repressed?
The Librarian was able to receive contact without being able to use the ability herself.

Are you kidding me?

@Ersatz Man

The Nymphs as speedy as the Shadow Bugs, deal only slightly less damage, and can heal as well, upon that, they have much more HP. For what evolutionary reason would the larvae be so powerful and fight? You'd think the queen would try expend less energy by creating weak larvae to be protected by the Shadow Bugs, than create powerful, seemingly fully grown creatures.

Your idea is also very similar to im2smart4u's.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Steelfist on May 28, 2010, 02:16:36 PM
Nymphs couldn't be female and shadow bugs male; the species could have a much higher male birth rate, in order to create many expendable soldiers that could be supported by the few females.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on May 29, 2010, 07:26:23 AM
A Nymph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymph_(biology)) has to metamorph into something, so the two gender theory doesn't work.

I think the Nymphs are larvae which are born with a heavy armour coating and less speed to protect itself, shadow bugs are adults who have shed the armour for speed and the queens are just REALLY big shadowling bugs.
For the most part that seems right, but if the bug queens are really big shadow bugs, then where are all the sizes in between the normal shadow bugs and the gaint bug queens?
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Zhampir on June 07, 2010, 07:57:09 AM
maybe they only grow to that size when they're determined to be the queen.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on June 07, 2010, 11:04:46 AM
maybe they only grow to that size when they're determined to be the queen.
Or a specially feed larva will become a Bug Queen after its pupa stage instead of developing into a Nymph.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: KZ on June 24, 2010, 11:31:57 AM
Haven't seen the addendum to the initial theory, but my take on it is that it does explain a lot, and draw parallels with what we can sometimes see in wild cats that get adopted as newborns. Still, they do sometimes attack their owners and can be misdirected by primitive instincts. So, sounds good to me, though I would add that, once outside the influence of a large colony, the Shadow Bugs and Nymphs can be influenced to accept a new "owner" (much more difficult at later stages of development, but not impossible e.g. bears). This last bit can tie in nicely with what LethalLaurie and I came up with for interaction of Gelves with shadow bugs.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Dorgon 5000 on July 19, 2010, 05:22:20 AM
From one subject to another, what do you think the shadow bugs eat? How can they find food in the caves?
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on July 19, 2010, 10:07:52 AM
From one subject to another, what do you think the shadow bugs eat? How can they find food in the caves?
Do ants gather food within their mounds?  Like ants, I think the bugs leave their homes to gather food and then bring it back to the colony.  Also like ants, I think the bugs' diets are many varieties of plants and animals.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: KZ on July 22, 2010, 05:11:17 AM
I'd also add that the diet inculdes eating larger species, be they humans or spriggats, who get trapped in the Bug Pit. I believe that that was the intention of Cerzak, when he first encountered the Main.
Then, on the old forums, there was the idea thatthe Shadowbug Queen eats folks with their armor on and whilst digesting it, deposits the metal particles on top of her exoskeleton to strengthen it, and that's where she gets her extra shield from- the older the Queen, the stronger the shield and the more surface area it occupies.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Dorgon 5000 on July 22, 2010, 07:17:05 AM
I'd also add that the diet inculdes eating larger species, be they humans or spriggats, who get trapped in the Bug Pit. I believe that that was the intention of Cerzak, when he first encountered the Main.
Then, on the old forums, there was the idea thatthe Shadowbug Queen eats folks with their armor on and whilst digesting it, deposits the metal particles on top of her exoskeleton to strengthen it, and that's where she gets her extra shield from- the older the Queen, the stronger the shield and the more surface area it occupies.

Well... There are some real insects which eat poisonous plants to become poisionous themselves. So that theory might be true.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: KZ on July 24, 2010, 07:13:11 AM
Exactly why I postulated that in the first place, Dorgon 500. There are numerous processes in nature that allow deposition of certain organic or inorganic molecules in different places of an organism for numerous reasons, and methinks it's a neat touch to inlcude that for the Bug Queen. And it works well too- none of the Main's team can hit the queen anywhere, but the unprotected and unshielded part of her, so she was near invincible in that respect.

It would be interesting to see if Craig decides to expand slightly the Bug enemy set (possibly including the suggestions aired here and elsewhere?) and see if that still fits in with the proposed theories.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: bugfartboy on July 29, 2010, 05:45:29 PM
So, if there really were more types of bugs that weren't seen during the Hero's trip to the bug pit, what other kinds of bugs might there be? How about scout bugs? Bugs that have been specially bred as lookouts? Bugs that have a small amount of health and small damage. High speed. Found on the outskirts of a colony.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Dorgon 5000 on July 30, 2010, 02:08:09 AM
Good idea!
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: lordnova on August 19, 2010, 11:44:13 AM
well the bug queen is  theory is huge maybe there colonist is different then other maybe the the shadow bug is powerful but maybe there trying to change there own way :-\
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Steelfist on December 28, 2010, 07:37:13 PM
Nymphs couldn't be female and shadow bugs male; the species could have a much higher male birth rate, in order to create many expendable soldiers that could be supported by the few females.

Aha! Rereading this topic, it occured to me that I could be validated if nymphs were simply Bug queens in waiting; the bug queen dies, a nymph grows and becomes the new queen.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on December 28, 2010, 08:04:45 PM
Aha! Rereading this topic, it occured to me that I could be validated if nymphs were simply Bug queens in waiting; the bug queen dies, a nymph grows and becomes the new queen.
If every nymph could become a bug queen, then there would be bugs everywhere.  There is a reason that there are few ants and bees in a colony that can become queens.  If it was too simple to make colonies, then the insects will overpopulate and starve.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: Steelfist on December 28, 2010, 08:41:02 PM
They would be replacements, not intended to be for new colonies.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on December 29, 2010, 09:27:20 PM
They would be replacements, not intended to be for new colonies.
When bees need replacements, they feed pupa special hormones for the purpose of turning the pupa into a queens.  The way bees do it makes it where there isn't an abundance of queens.  Unlike your theory, nature wouldn't allow a bug colony to have a queen that gives birth to as much would-be queens as soldier/worker bugs.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: bugfartboy on December 29, 2010, 09:49:29 PM
Unless those would-be queens have another purpose that is only possible in would-be queens such as healing.
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: SmartyPants on December 30, 2010, 09:35:29 AM
Unless those would-be queens have another purpose that is only possible in would-be queens such as healing.
Again, having 50% of the bugs as would-be queens would put the colony at major risk of overpopulation and starvation.  You didn't address how your theory would cause an abundance of queens when we havn't see any bugs outside of the Deeper Downs.
Why are pushing your flawed theory so much, when you don't see a flaw in the generally accepted theory?
Title: Re: Bug Theory (the creatures; not errors)
Post by: bugfartboy on December 30, 2010, 09:36:17 AM
I was just making a point, not trying to push a new theory.