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Games => TSoG => TSoG Wish List => Topic started by: Xemadus Echina on March 16, 2011, 05:43:19 AM

Title: moral compass
Post by: Xemadus Echina on March 16, 2011, 05:43:19 AM
I was just playing through the game and then a thought hit me; this is the sort of RPG that could make an immense use of a moral compass.  Certain events like fighting bandits or giving the sleeping beggar money could raise your moral compass, while killing people out of missions or giving the other beggar grief can lower it.  you could even have a second part to it (other then good evil) and have it be material/spiritual (or whatever works) and then instead of being asked a question to obtain an affinity, your affinity can be chosen based on your moral compass.  Also, since this game is already well under way it might not make sense to implement an entirely new system, but maybe in a future game?
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: SmartyPants on March 16, 2011, 11:54:32 AM
I rather events not be defined as good and evil, since the world isn't just black and white.  I rather this game not be like KOTOR and flash "Light" and "Dark" after every action.  I perfer how the game runs now: Like the real world, you can only guess at the effects of your actions.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Ertxiem on March 16, 2011, 04:35:36 PM
I remember Craig saying something about not including a variable in TSoG that measured the goodness or evilness of Duvalier (but I couldn't find it). However, Duvalier's choices will have consequences, namely affecting his available options in latter parts of the game.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Zackirus on March 16, 2011, 04:42:42 PM
I remember that too. I think it was in ask the developer a question but I also can't find it. I never really liked the Paragon/Renagade (Mass Effect), I mean sometimes you have to be evil, sometimes you have to good to get the best ending.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Dean_Lukas on March 16, 2011, 09:57:35 PM
I rather events not be defined as good and evil, since the world isn't just black and white.  I rather this game not be like KOTOR and flash "Light" and "Dark" after every action.  I perfer how the game runs now: Like the real world, you can only guess at the effects of your actions.

Agreed on that. I enjoyed games like Dragon Age much better because there were excellent shades of gray.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Xemadus Echina on March 17, 2011, 04:23:55 PM
if you have options where you can change your compass to whatever you want it to be, then i don't see why it would be much of an issue.  and it would add more replay value because if you choose to take one path, another may be blocked off to you so that you need to play through again to see everything. and besides, if you get an undesirable ending you can just load a save game, change your compass to whatever, and continue on.  and i'm not saying that it should be used for the main storyline. all i'm saying is that for side quests (and maybe picking an affinity) it would add more depth if options were presented to you based on your alignment.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: CraigStern on March 20, 2011, 09:40:32 AM
I remember Craig saying something about not including a variable in TSoG that measured the goodness or evilness of Duvalier (but I couldn't find it).

My guess is you read that here (http://rampantgames.com/blog/?p=2175).

Quote
People will remember certain things you say or do, but I very specifically chose not to include “cosmic scorecard” elements in the game like alignment or karma. It’s always struck me as a clumsy mechanic to tell the player “that was a Good thing you did, and now all Good people in the game will like you more,” or “that was Evil, so now you are more Evil.” That’s not how people actually behave, and it doesn’t fit with the message I’m trying to send with TSoG.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Ertxiem on March 20, 2011, 04:15:55 PM
Oh! That's why I could find it in the forums. I did a search for "karma" and then "evil" and stuff like that and I was unable to get satisfactory results. I even tried to use google but restricted my search to SinisterDesign.net.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Xemadus Echina on March 22, 2011, 05:04:28 AM

Quote
People will remember certain things you say or do, but I very specifically chose not to include “cosmic scorecard” elements in the game like alignment or karma. It’s always struck me as a clumsy mechanic to tell the player “that was a Good thing you did, and now all Good people in the game will like you more,” or “that was Evil, so now you are more Evil.” That’s not how people actually behave, and it doesn’t fit with the message I’m trying to send with TSoG.

I wasn't talking about using that way.  I was thinking of it being akin to having certain personality or aptitude levels.  If your moral compass leans one way, you have more/less options, if it leans another way then you have different options. 
-Basically, the moral compass would be something that shows you what Dualiver would do, and less of what people think of him.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Zackirus on March 22, 2011, 12:52:32 PM
I wasn't talking about using that way.  I was thinking of it being akin to having certain personality or aptitude levels.  If your moral compass leans one way, you have more/less options, if it leans another way then you have different options. 
-Basically, the moral compass would be something that shows you what Dualiver would do, and less of what people think of him.

So, almost like the Paragon/Renagade system is Mass Effect, the more times you do good/evil things, the more good/evil options become available for Commander Shepard to use...
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: CraigStern on March 26, 2011, 10:14:34 AM
That's a great idea for a huge studio with tons of on-staff writers like Bioware; for one person, maybe not so much. I have to create new missions and stuff too, you know. ;)
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Duskling on March 26, 2011, 12:34:36 PM
That's a great idea for a huge studio with tons of on-staff writers like Bioware; for one person, maybe not so much. I have to create new missions and stuff too, you know. ;)
I'm pretty sure that also means adding a bunch of sidequests solely for the purpose of changing your compass.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Xemadus Echina on March 28, 2011, 05:10:43 AM
changing your compass would be simple. to add evil and chaos? beggar fight.  to add good and chaos? killing bandits with the merchant.  to add good and control? give money to the sleeping beggar. to add evil and control? play the card game.

Those four just seemed to fit the best.  And they're the only repeatable missions/ events i can think of (other then random battle in deeper downs)

Also, I know that it'll take work to implement.  that's why i'm not saying "OMG put this in game!!!!111" My thought was to use it in a game with a theme revolving around morality.



Edit: Sorry, wrong button. Ert.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Ertxiem on March 28, 2011, 03:47:34 PM
I would prefer that more subtle changes would be taken in consideration, rather than some easily repeatable tasks that we can choose to drive our compass from one extreme to the other between missions.

These repeatable tasks could change the "alignment" (to use the D&D name) up to a limited point (say, up to 3 times would make a difference, more than that wouldn't change a thing, or using a log or sqrt function to flat out the effect).

I'll be glad to explain further what I'm thinking about (in particular the maths behind it).


Sorry, rainen, I pressed the wrong button so an edit appears in your post. Nothing was changed, though.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Xemadus Echina on April 05, 2011, 05:15:23 AM
Edit: Sorry, wrong button. Ert.

LIAR! you said there was no change :P  on a more serious note: I'm glad this thread didn't degrade into a flame war.  Unless anybody says otherwise I'll be locking this myself since it would appear the discussion is over.
Title: Re: moral compass
Post by: Duskling on April 07, 2011, 03:12:49 PM
changing your compass would be simple. to add evil and chaos? beggar fight.  to add good and chaos? killing bandits with the merchant.  to add good and control? give money to the sleeping beggar. to add evil and control? play the card game.

Those four just seemed to fit the best.  And they're the only repeatable missions/ events i can think of (other then random battle in deeper downs)

Also, I know that it'll take work to implement.  that's why i'm not saying "OMG put this in game!!!!111" My thought was to use it in a game with a theme revolving around morality.



Edit: Sorry, wrong button. Ert.
Well, before the discussion is over, I would like to point one thing out:

1. Changing your compass shouldn't happen repeatedly, otherwise there is no point, say you fight the guards the beggar summons, every time you do so, you get... "evil points," or something, I mean, at least make it happen only once at a time.