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General => General Discussion => Politics => Topic started by: Duskling on May 01, 2011, 09:48:28 PM

Title: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Duskling on May 01, 2011, 09:48:28 PM
Express your feelings on this terrorist mastermind's death.

Source- Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/01/usama-bin-laden-dead-say-sources/

Link Provided by Ertxiem.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Idozen Cair on May 01, 2011, 11:11:27 PM
Well, I'd be happy about it. He's the one behind 11/9, right? How did he die?
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Ertxiem on May 02, 2011, 02:02:41 AM
I think a link is appropriate, Duskling.
Perhaps something like
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/01/usama-bin-laden-dead-say-sources/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/01/usama-bin-laden-dead-say-sources/)
... Or did you had in mind an older one?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html)

I'm still a bit sceptic about it...
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: bugfartboy on May 02, 2011, 05:27:21 AM
I'm with Ert.

Spoiler
Honestly, I'd mourn the lost soul, if he were dead. I find nothing to celebrate about in the idea of a man that knows not a living God.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: SmartyPants on May 02, 2011, 08:40:49 AM
DNA testing confirms bin Laden death (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden;_ylt=AiiL4uxxp1GnC43z7fFHDz6s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNjNDdyb285BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwNTAyL3VzX2Jpbl9sYWRlbgRjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzIEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3Vza2lsbHNvc2FtYQ--)

Well, I'd be happy about it. He's the one behind 11/9, right? How did he die?
Where are you from to have to ask who caused 9/11 and many other terrorist attacks that happened across five continents?

Spoiler
Honestly, I'd mourn the lost soul, if he were dead. I find nothing to celebrate about in the idea of a man that knows not a living God.
That is ridiculous. There should not be any mourning for a mass murder.  With his death, Al-Qaeda is weakened and therefore more innocent lives will be safe.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Dean_Lukas on May 02, 2011, 09:20:51 AM
The fact that he was hiding out speaks to how weakened al-Qaeda already was. This is largely symbolic. That said, it's a powerful one.

Already seen the conspiracy theories (http://www.examiner.com/strange-mysterious-facts-in-national/osama-bin-laden-dead-but-conspiracy-lingers) that we actually killed him years ago and just now released it. After the Truther/Birther stuff I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm surprised.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Ertxiem on May 02, 2011, 02:52:50 PM
The death of a person is a thing that will never make me happy.
However, I think that Osama bin Laden is better dead than free.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: MikeW781 on May 02, 2011, 04:00:33 PM
The death of a person is a thing that will never make me happy.
However, I think that Osama bin Laden is better dead than free.
Basically sums up my feelings. I'm not about to run around yelling "USA USA USA," but I prefer him dead to alive and free. It was something that needed to be done, but its not a celebratory event
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on May 02, 2011, 04:13:16 PM
I can't say truly that I am glad he's dead, however, I believe that he was a disgrace to the Muslim world and a shame upon the people whom he ruled, I can't say I'm glad he's dead, but you won't catch me mourning.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: bugfartboy on May 02, 2011, 04:23:21 PM
Spoiler
Honestly, I'd mourn the lost soul, if he were dead. I find nothing to celebrate about in the idea of a man that knows not a living God.
That is ridiculous. There should not be any mourning for a mass murder.  With his death, Al-Qaeda is weakened and therefore more innocent lives will be safe.
Well, EXCUSE ME for having SOME value for any human life.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Duskling on May 02, 2011, 04:44:28 PM
Spoiler
Honestly, I'd mourn the lost soul, if he were dead. I find nothing to celebrate about in the idea of a man that knows not a living God.
That is ridiculous. There should not be any mourning for a mass murder.  With his death, Al-Qaeda is weakened and therefore more innocent lives will be safe.
Well, EXCUSE ME for having SOME value for any human life.
But it sure didn't look like Osama held value for any human life on 9/11.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on May 02, 2011, 06:57:35 PM
History is written by the victors, although he was a horrible man, consider this if you were Japanese during the bombings, what would you opinion be of Americans?
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Duskling on May 02, 2011, 07:09:09 PM
History is written by the victors, although he was a horrible man, consider this if you were Japanese during the bombings, what would you opinion be of Americans?
Is this directed at me?
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on May 02, 2011, 07:17:02 PM
Not in particular, and yes I despised him, but I like to consider viewpoints that I don't necessarily support and like to encourage others in general to do so as well.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Duskling on May 02, 2011, 07:39:40 PM
History is written by the victors, although he was a horrible man, consider this if you were Japanese during the bombings, what would you opinion be of Americans?
Well, I'd probably think of them as heartless monsters, but, had I the same personality as I do in real life, I'd consider which side the Japanese were on in the war, you know, I'm a rationalist, I take a look at both sides, and one of my mottoes is, "At some point, you'll have to do something you really, really don't want to," so I'm not too quick to judge based on actions such as bombings (Though I saw no good reason for 9/11), as they are usually reserved as last resort-type actions.

Now, with Osama, he worshiped Islam and was in Afghanistan during their fight to repel a Soviet invasion, where they had succeeded in driving off the Soviets, but then, he got carried away, and formed or joined a radical group known as Al Qaeda in which extremist Muslims join in hopes of gaining favor of Allah, which many Muslims in the Middle East, especially the younger ones, who are easier to manipulate, join, and kill all non-believers in the name of Allah.

Synopsis: Osama, or Usama, bin Laden is following one of the older, should I say, more forgotten or less practiced, rules of the Qu'ran, to kill or punish all non-believers, taking that rule, and using it as a basis for war, along with the rest of Al Qaeda.

My Personal Opinion: He deserved to die, his existence by itself was a threat to the US, the Middle East, and perhaps the world. Though there are others like him, ending Osama brings us one step closer to victory in the war on terror.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: bugfartboy on May 02, 2011, 08:07:04 PM
Though is the death of one man really going to do that much? He'd probably be made into a martyr.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on May 02, 2011, 08:26:51 PM
He already is which is why Pakistan is ahunning all association with his informal execution. If Pakistan claimed responsibility a revolution might be instigated among militant Muslims living in the north of Pakistan, which is where the highest prevalence of militant Mulsims live.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: SmartyPants on May 02, 2011, 08:40:24 PM
Basically sums up my feelings. I'm not about to run around yelling "USA USA USA," but I prefer him dead to alive and free. It was something that needed to be done, but its not a celebratory event
I was one of those guys chanting "USA".  This is a great victory for the USA.  There hasn't been a man this hated by America since Hitler.

History is written by the victors, although he was a horrible man, consider this if you were Japanese during the bombings, what would you opinion be of Americans?
Actually, Japan did rewrite history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies), while American texbooks obsess over Japanese internment camps.

Though is the death of one man really going to do that much? He'd probably be made into a martyr.
Better a martyr, then a living charismatic figurehead.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: MikeW781 on May 03, 2011, 02:57:33 PM
Basically sums up my feelings. I'm not about to run around yelling "USA USA USA," but I prefer him dead to alive and free. It was something that needed to be done, but its not a celebratory event
I was one of those guys chanting "USA".  This is a great victory for the USA.  There hasn't been a man this hated by America since Hitler.

History is written by the victors, although he was a horrible man, consider this if you were Japanese during the bombings, what would you opinion be of Americans?
Actually, Japan did rewrite history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies), while American texbooks obsess over Japanese internment camps.
I disagree on the importance of the victory, and I personally think its a little barbaric to go around chanting USA.... it seems reminiscent of the scenes we show of Muslim terrorists chanting for the downfall of an enemy.

Also, the whole history is written by the victor thing is just a bad COD quote. Its not real anymore, we have too many records.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: ArtDrake on May 04, 2011, 05:22:26 PM
Hoorah. Our government murdered a guy in cold blood ("tactical execution"). Let's move on from the inglorious happening and continue to fight terrorism where we see it.

The death of a wrongdoer is not cause for celebration. It is reasonable to take joy in knowing that your country and family are safe, but taking joy in the end of a life is barbaric.

Love the sinner; hate the sin.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: The Holy namelesskitty on May 04, 2011, 05:57:33 PM
but if the sin is murder, killing the sinner is a good idea.

what are everyone's opinions on Pakistan's involvement.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Idozen Cair on May 05, 2011, 02:16:46 AM
Well, I think the more they do, the more people suspect them.

This post would make a great poll.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: pruneman on May 05, 2011, 04:31:24 AM
I know that his acts were evil, but, I find it awkward celebrating death. I find it nicer to celebrate that his reign of terror is over, not that he's dead.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: dancash on May 05, 2011, 10:50:15 AM
he was an old man... yes he was a member of a horrific organisation. but people should not treat this as a cause for celebration. nor was he a threat at his age. he was a symbol and it seems more to have been a victory for america's pride rather than against terrorism in my opinion.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Steel Ersatz Man on May 07, 2011, 02:54:19 AM
Now, I have mixed feelings about Osama's death.

On the one hand, by killing him, more lives will be saved in the long run, you know what they say, sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

On the other hand, he was just a very confused man who happened to have a lot of power. Also, his son was killed as well. It wasn't the sons' fault, his Dad gave him a biased viewpoint and he never heard both sides of the story. He probably thought he was protecting his hero father from the 'Evil American Capitalist Pigs.'

Yes, I am sorry that he is dead, I think they could have just tranquilized him, sent him to a maximum security prison and used him as bait for the other terrorist forces that would be loyal to him. Then, they would have quite a few terrorists behind bars and there would be no bloodshed. Plus, the terrorists would be less likely to do anything drastic because the Americans captured him, not killed him.

So, yes, that is my opinion on the matter.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Steelfist on May 07, 2011, 03:19:28 AM
We all know it means nothing, except as a symbol.

But, will that symbol damage Al-qaeda, or merely give the decentralised leadership a method of inspiring there 'troops'?

I say the latter.

As for the 'we should have captured him' route. That would have invited even greater reprisals; taking hostages to encourage his release, bombing targets if we do not release him, ect. It would have been an even greater cause for attacks than his death.

It's an unfortunate situation all round, and I honestly think this was the best course of action.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Ertxiem on May 07, 2011, 08:36:01 AM
I also think that capturing Osama bin Laden would raise the chance of hostages being taken and bombing targets to release him. However, I would see with better eyes a quick judgement than the execution of an unarmed person.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Steel Ersatz Man on May 07, 2011, 09:12:38 AM
It seems you only read half my argument, I concede that, maybe, killing Osama was the best course of action, but what about his son and other innocents who may have been harmed during the attack? The news stated that Americans 'Tried to avoid civilian casualties,' or something to that effect, however, that doesn't mean there were none or even a small amount.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Deagonx on May 07, 2011, 11:11:53 AM
Would I be too far off to say that this could have, if anything, strengthened Al-Qaeda?



With Osama gone, there is easily a second in command to take his place.

Understandably, Osama was a terrorist figurehead. But it would be hard to become a second-in-command. It would have to be another hardcore-fanatic. Probably younger, and probably with plans for when he becomes the leader.


Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Steelfist on May 07, 2011, 01:53:51 PM
You misunderstand:

Bin-Laden was not truly a leader - the leadership has long been decentralised.

It is worrying that Obama believes - I forget exactly - that this is the greatest achievement of the USA in the 'War on Terror'.

However, is it that hard to imagine some minor leader somewhere telling his troops they must avenge Osama ? . .
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: Dean_Lukas on May 07, 2011, 02:32:03 PM
There were innocents killed in the attack because he was using a woman as a human shield and firing at the Seals. They had every intention of capturing him, if you believe the official line. I'm glad that they fought back with full force and we didn't lose everyone.

And, personally, I think he's better dead than a prisoner, for the reasons others have stated.
Title: Re: Osama bin Laden- Dead
Post by: SmartyPants on May 10, 2011, 01:00:03 PM
I also think that capturing Osama bin Laden would raise the chance of hostages being taken and bombing targets to release him. However, I would see with better eyes a quick judgement than the execution of an unarmed person.
Also immagen trying to put him on trial.  It would take years becuase he would be bogged down with appeals claiming that he went into court with bais against him, so therefore there would be no innocence until proven guilty.  We also also spend millions of dollars moving him between a prison cell and the courthouse, because we would have to make sure terrorist don't break him out and the American vigilantes don't murder him (remember how Lee Harvey Oswald died).

On the other hand, he was just a very confused man who happened to have a lot of power. Also, his son was killed as well. It wasn't the sons' fault, his Dad gave him a biased viewpoint and he never heard both sides of the story. He probably thought he was protecting his hero father from the 'Evil American Capitalist Pigs.'
I don't think his son is as innocent as you claim.  Even before his father was the world's most wanted terrorist, he supported Al Qaeda which is a group that will murder thousand of innocent civilians to advance thier religious and ideological goal.  He wasn't only there to support his father as you claim.

With Osama gone, there is easily a second in command to take his place.
Osama's second in command, Ayman Al-Zawahri, is not nearly as charismatic as Osama.  Many Al Qaeda leaders won't support him as the leader and he won't raise as nearly as much money for their "cause".  Also, the leader of the Taliban, Mohammed Omar only supported Al Qaeda due to his personal friendship to Osama.

Bin-Laden was not truly a leader - the leadership has long been decentralised.
According to the documents taken from Osama's compound, that assumption may be wrong.  Documents show that Osama has been advising Al Qaeda in both Yemen and Somalia.