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Messages - cyso

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 47
1
Politics / Re: The Idea of Existence
« on: December 11, 2011, 07:46:24 PM »
I know I've been gone a while, and I know no one has posted here a while, but I just have to interject.

And I wouldn't expect anyone to find "planet" or "earth" inside the Bible except when referring to the earth beneath someone's feet; the Indo-European world believed that the earth was flat until after the Dark Ages (a good 4500 years or so, even by the Bible's reckoning).

Job 26:7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.

2
General Discussion / Re: What's your religion?
« on: April 02, 2011, 04:28:36 PM »
Quote
Think about (M.K.) Gandhi. He did a lot of good for the India, trying to separate from India without restoring to violence. So with that, are you saying that someone who doesn't believe in your god, will automatically go to hell, even if they were a extremely good person in their life.
Yes, because even though Gandhi did many good things, they never erased any of the bad. No matter how many good things you do, you can't erase the bad.

Quote
Another example is a lone Hunter in a Forest. He lives all his life learning how to catch and trap animals. His father doesn't teach him about any God. Once he (The Father) dies, he is all alone in the forest. Each day he makes new traps, checks his old ones, and repairs his small shack that he lives in. He  never meets another person and dies from an infection when he is 50 years old. Will this man go to Hell just because he never believed in God?
Yes. Being isolated in with his father in the forest doesn't remove the possibility of sin. For example, there is the way he treats and interacts with his father. He could be an absolute jerk to the only person he knows. Even if he wasn't, he probably wouldn't always treat or interact with his father like he should. Plus, much of the sin we do is inside. Not things like anger or sadness. Those are feelings and aren't bad by themselves. But, in this scenario, if the son had spent an hour thinking about how he should do something to his dad or hurt him in some way, he would have sinned. If he had been mad at him for a moment, he wouldn't have done anything wrong. By harboring evil thoughts, he would have sinned. I probably didn't do a good job explaining that, so I'm going to show a bible verse.
Matthew 5:27-28
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery'. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
I hope that clears things up. The hunter would have had to live an absolutely perfect life, which is beyond any of us. Living a simple life isn't the same as living a perfect life.

Quote
My last example is small embryo growing in a mother's whom. Once the embryo becomes 4 months old, it suddenly dies. Does this baby, having never done anything sinful in life, or knowing about any God simply go to Hell because it did not believe?
No, because it hasn't done anything. The reason we need to be reconciled with God is that we sin. As an embryo, I don't think you are capable of sinning. Here is a verse from the bible.
2 Samuel 12:23 "But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”
Just to clarify, David commits adultery with one of his soldiers wife. She becomes pregnant. He recalls the soldier to Jerusalem to be with his wife so it will look like the son is actually the soldiers. He refuses to sleep with his wife because all of his fellow soldiers are out fighting. So, David sends him into battle and orders his commander to put him in the fiercest part of the battle. The soldier dies. David marries the soldier's wife. A prophet comes and brings the issue to light. David repents, and his sins are forgiven, but there is a consequence. As stated in 2 Samuel 12:10 Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.’ So, a lot of David's family will die. David's newborn son is one of them. He dies after seven days. David then makes the above statement. The child was 7 days old, and yet David still says he will go to him (in heaven). So, I do not think embryos go to hell.
Before anyone says that it was unfair for God to cause problems in David's family: All of the problems in David's family were caused by conflicts between family members. The conflicts were probably a consequence of his sin. For example, when Solomon (son of the soldier's former wife) was made king, there was conflict between him and his older brother. If David hadn't sinned, this conflict wouldn't have existed.

Wow, cyso, that was ... pretty much the most convincing post on this topic. I can't help feeling I should turn to Christ, as I'm currently athiest.
If you want to, please PM me about this.

3
General Discussion / Re: What's your religion?
« on: March 31, 2011, 01:18:31 AM »
Yes. I'm a Christian, so I believe there is only one answer. You're not a Christian though. So, I'm going to explain the problem, or why we have to be reconciled with God.
We don't follow God. We follow our own path. It may be intentional defiance or it may be lack of faith in God. The thing is, God is the creator and ruler of everything. He has the right to everything. He isn't a terrible ruler trying to harm his subjects or torture them. When we turn from him, it's about the equivalent of the servants of a good king or ruler refusing to do what he says and what the law demands and completely refusing to serve him, regardless of intent. This type of crime is treason. Even if you forget about all of the other bad things a person does, this crime alone is enough to earn death. God's punishment is not only the death of our bodies (separating our souls and spirits from our body) but the death of our spirits (separating our souls and spirits from him). This is basically what we ask for when we follow our own path apart from him, but it really sucks. I posted a little bit about hell a few posts back. Eternally separated from God, without hope.
So, that's why we need to be reconciled. We take off on our own path. We run away from God. We are apart from him, and need to come back to him, but our sins, our treason, separates us. We owe him a debt, a debt that must be paid. This is why works don't get you into heaven. You can't work your way to heaven. The good things you do don't erase the bad. I described us as running away from God. This is like the parable of the son that demanded his inheritance from his father, left with it, and spent it all. Living a good life and being careful with your money doesn't do you any good if you don't have any money and you took all the money from your father anyways, just like living good won't help you. You may do less bad things, you may sin less, but you never really stop sinning and you still haven't done a thing about your previous sins. All you might do is slow your present rate of sin. Those sins will get you into hell.
That is why I think good works don't cut it with God. You don't even really stop sinning, so it really doesn't matter. You can work and work and work, but you can't undo what you've done. You can try to lessen the effects, but you can't erase what you did from history. Not spending money when you owe debt is a good idea, but unless you can pay back the debt, it doesn't do you much good. You've got to pay back the debt, but you can't. Works don't pay back anything. So, any idea of getting to heaven by works is out.
You may be wondering why God doesn't just say oh well, they all screwed up, I'll let them slide. After all, he's supposed to be all loving. The thing is, he's also just. So, even though he loves you and he really doesn't like to do it, he will send people to hell. A truly just judge demands the penalty be paid and that the law be upheld. Someone has to pay the penalty. Not that God is out for blood, but the debt must be paid. You must pay for something like a speeding ticket in human courts; in God's court, you must pay for treason, and the price is your life.
So, we have to pay with our life. We can't pay with another person's life because they have to pay themselves can't really offer anything. They owe debt too. They are going to have to pay with their life. They can't give you more life because they don't have extra life to give. Now, if we had extra life, if our sinful selves could be put to death and somehow we could still live, we would be fine.
The Jews used sacrifices to pay. The thing is, animal sacrifices don't mean too much. You killed a perfect lamb. It was spotless. It never did anything that bad. It was a lamb. A lamb can't exactly give you new life so that when your sinful self dies, you don't. There isn't really anything special about a lamb, except that it was symbolic (which is why people in the old testament don't all go to hell. They put their trust in Jesus, but since he wasn't exactly around on Earth at the time, they demonstrated their trust by sacrificing lambs and other animals, which was symbolic of Jesus's death).
I think I've covered the way most religions try to pay for the debt. I think that most religions go along the lines of "work your way into happiness." Even the Jews had to sacrifice animals (and with all the associated rituals, it was work). Doing good deeds is fine. I am not in any way saying that you shouldn't do good deeds, but they aren't enough. Most of the other religions will scream at you to work harder to gain paradise. You can never work hard enough. You can't work so hard that it's like all of the screw ups you made in life are erased like they never existed. The other religions want you to do good things, but they can't help you do them. They can't help you be reconciled to God. They can just tell you what to do. I could spit out a bunch of things for you not to do, but that doesn't really help you. There is a quote from a famous Christian author John Bunyan stating "the law commands but gives me neither feet nor hands" and that basically sums up all of the work religions. You can tell someone to work hard, but you can't make them. You can tell someone to avoid all sorts of sins, but you can't make them do anything. In the quote, he was referring to the old testament law (I think) but it applies to every law. There is no power in the law. Principles may be fine, rules may be good, but they have no power to save you. You need life, not rules. If you just try to live by rules, you will fail. They can't hold you to them. They give you no power to be perfect. They can't cancel out your sins. They just serve to show you that you fail. That's one good thing about laws. When you screw them up plenty, you realize that you can't do it. You can't be perfect. You will sin. Laws expose sin and wrong doing (which some people may need). They do not correct them or pay for them, which is what we all need.
Right now, we have a fairly gloomy picture. We can't work our way into heaven, because we will fail anyways, and our works don't erase our sins. The penalty for sin is death. Not pleasant. We need new life. We can't exactly borrow our neighbors, because they need new life too. But, God does love us. So, he sends the solution. Jesus.
Jesus, fully God, but also fully human. God in flesh. Called the son of God because he was conceived in Mary by the power of God. Being fully God, he had the power to resist temptation. He could live with God because he was God. He didn't run away from God. He lived perfect. Being God, he had life. He also had no debt to pay. We, on the other hand, need life, life that doesn't have any debt to pay. We need him. He really doesn't need us, but he loves us. So, he takes our punishment. He takes our debt. He takes being cut off from God. He takes what we should have to pay. He does a bit more. He takes our sins and puts them on himself. He takes those sins to the grave. He then raises from the dead. He is God. Death does not have power over him.
He takes our sins, and we gain his righteousness. He takes our death, and we take his life. It's like our sins and our sinful self is crucified and dies, and our new self, the one full of Jesus, lives. Not that Christians are perfect. We have our new life, but the old one doesn't completely go until the end. Our sin is paid for, though. So, any punishment that should be ours is Jesus's. It's like he steps up, takes our sin on himself and brings it to the grave, then gives us life (I know I've already said this). We are no longer condemned by God, because all our sin is on Jesus. We are free from our debt.
So, do we go on sinning and living our life like we did before? The answer is no. Okay, we still sin, but our lives are different. Why? Because Christ lives in us. He lives through us. So, we still sin, because we are still prone to sin, but we do not find pleasure in sin because we have Jesus living in us, and he does not like sin. So, we try to do what is right. We still screw up. But, we don't use Christ's payment as a free pass to do whatever we want and sin however we like because we don't like to sin. His nature lives in us. It is what survives in the end. Our old bodies will die. Our souls will not, and we will get new bodies. Our old self will be completely gone.
So, we looked at our debt. We looked at why works don't reconcile us to God. We look at how, when Jesus took our sins, we are reconciled with God because Jesus carried them away and paid away our debt, so God accepts us like he wanted to. I probably didn't do the best of jobs at the end, so if you have any questions, please ask. If you think there is another way we could be reconciled that I didn't cover, please tell me.
The full quote from the Christian author and my ending note:
"Run, John, run the law commands,
But gives me neither feet nor hands;
Far better news the gospel brings:
It bids me fly; it gives me wings."

4
TSoG / Re: Relatives
« on: March 30, 2011, 11:00:04 PM »
That is possible, but it's also possible that a long time ago, it was mentioned. Where did the assumption come from if it wasn't said somewhere? I don't see why someone would make that assumption if Craig didn't mention it.
Or, of course, you could be right.

5
General Discussion / Re: What's your religion?
« on: March 30, 2011, 10:57:52 PM »
I see, but still you said:

I'm saying that you are either a Christian and reconciled with God or not a Christian and not reconciled with God

I understand but putting Muslims in the "Not Christian/Not Reconciled" is not fair. Why can't they be "Not Christian/Reconciled"? They are Recoiled with God, and not Christian, so it makes sense.

It would be more fair to say "Christian and Recoiled With God" and "Non Christian and Recoiled/Not Recoiled With God.   
If I and my religion are correct, than Christians are the only people reconciled with God. If the Muslims are correct, they are the only people reconciled with God. Christianity teaches only one way to heaven. So does Islam. So, we can't both be right about the one way to be reconciled with God if our ways are different and we believe it's the only way. If it isn't the only way, then neither of us are right, because we both preach one way only. Either I am wrong or I am right. If I am right, there are two groups, Christian or Non Christians. The Christians are reconciled with God, the Non Christians are not. If I'm not right, I don't think my grouping matters very much.

There is only one way to God. You might think it is unfair. Think about it, though. No matter how many ways you work 72, there is only one answer. You don't have to recite a certain prayer or say a certain creed to become a Christian. You don't have to live a certain kind of life before you are saved. How you are led to become a Christian (by reading something, by hearing something, etc.) can vary, just like how you get the answer to a math problem. The thing that can't vary is the solution. There is only one solution to our sins, Jesus. How your life leads you to him isn't important. What's important is getting there.

Think of it like this: There are many ways to be led to Christ, just like there are many ways to be led to Christ. To become a Christian, you must accept what Jesus did and trust and believe in him, just like to get the answer right on a test, you have to put the answer down. No matter how you work the problem, you still have to put the answer down. There's no other way to submit the answer, just like there is no other way of becoming a Christian. You don't become a Christian by agreeing with what a pastor says or thinking it sounds nice, just like you don't get points if you just work out a problem in your head. Finally, to be reconciled with God, you must be a Christian, just like in a test, you must put the right answer to get the question correct.

6
General Discussion / Re: What's your religion?
« on: March 30, 2011, 09:55:22 PM »
So you are telling him politely that you don't believe in him and that until you do, you are going to live however you want as if he didn't exist. It's a lot nicer than saying screw you, I admit, but you are still saying that you want to do your own thing and don't really care if he exists.
The last part (don't really care if he exists) is an assumption. I assume that figuring out whether or not God exists is not of major concern to you, if it is of any concern to you.  I assume that, in your normal day, you don't think about God.  I assume you live your life as if God were not real, and that you really don't care if God may be real as much as you care about doing the things you like to do. I assume you are not trying to discover whether or not God exists. I assume you are not looking for God.  If any of these assumptions are wrong (and I wouldn't be particularly surprised if a few were) say so and tell me which ones are wrong.
If they are right, I have question for you. If you aren't looking for God, would you expect to see him even if he was there? You are agnostic. You believe that his existence is unknowable. If you have you don't look, how do you expect to see?

Of course, my assumption could be completely wrong. Sorry if it is.

Other religions fit into the Not Christian category. I'm sure a Muslim or Hindu wouldn't mind if I classified him or her as a Non-Christian, because they aren't Christians, and they know it. I'm not dividing people into groups of either x or y, with no other options. I'm dividing it into either x or not x.
An example of what I'm NOT doing: polling people and asking if they were Republican, and if they said no, writing them down as a Democrat, then making a cute little Democrat-Republican Pie Chart.
What I am doing: polling people and, if they say Republican, writing them down as that, and it they say they aren't Republican, writing them down in the category of "Not Republican." Then, I make a cute little Republican-Not Republican chart.
I don't say you are this or that, I say you are this or not this.

7
General Discussion / Re: What's your religion?
« on: March 30, 2011, 09:10:25 PM »
When you are an agnostic person, you chose to live your life apart from God. It's not rebellion like trying to replace God or something like that. It's more like telling God, "Screw you, I'm going to do my own thing." Not believing in God may be why you live apart from God, but that doesn't mean that you don't live apart from God. Why someone does something doesn't change what they do.

There are many ways to solve a math problem. However, there are only two types of answers: right or not right. I'm not saying that you are either a Christian or a serial killer. I'm saying that you are either a Christian and reconciled with God or not a Christian and not reconciled with God.

8
TSoG / Re: Relatives
« on: March 30, 2011, 08:57:01 PM »
The wiki says that Malis is related to Darkling and Shadowboxer, though I have no clue where that little bit of information came from.

9
General Discussion / Re: What's your religion?
« on: March 30, 2011, 08:40:24 PM »
You aren't choosing to follow the devil in the sense that you aren't following after him and deliberately trying to do things that you think he would like. However, by choosing to live your life in rebellion to God, you are following in his footsteps.

I think Buggy's right about the free will thing. Without temptation, we would walk the only path to walk. With temptation, we have to make choices.

Quote
To clarify my original 'genocidal maniac' point, which may have been misunderstood. I wasn't merely talking about indirect genocide. The bible mentions entire populations that god simply - wiped off the map. Real nice guy, yeah?
You're looking outside of context. Sodom and Gomorrah were the absolute worst places on the planet. So much to the point where Lot and his family moved out because they were warned that it would be destroyed by two angels, who were men, that the city tried to rape. The guys of the city that is. Now think about it.
To put more emphasis on how messed up the place was, here's a biblical quote.
Genesis 19:4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house.
It's kind of ridiculous when all the men in the city want to rape 2 guys/angels who come to the town. Then, when Lot told them (all the men in the city) no, they tried to break down the door.

10
General Discussion / Re: What's your religion?
« on: March 20, 2011, 09:47:42 PM »
Ah. I get it, somewhat. You're saying that Hell is like the embodyment of the torment and suffering that is a result of not being close to God, and is the result upon your soul, because even while you're alive, if you don't believe in God, your soul is suffering like it's in Hell, but when you become biologically dead, all that is left is your tormented soul?
Yes, but, your soul, when you are alive, still has hope of being saved. In Hell, it is worst because your soul has no hope. It is empty except for regret. So a living person's soul now isn't suffering as much because you can still try and fill it (I say try because you can try to fill it with anything, though it won't actually fill it). In Hell, your soul is empty, and there is nothing you can do to fill it.

If so, that's something about Christianity I never really got. I thought it was punishment, but it looks now more like a reflection of the spiritual anguish one faces as a result of separating yourself from God.
That is the punishment.

11
Forum Games / Re: The Three-Word Story Game
« on: March 20, 2011, 06:49:18 PM »
There were five hundred thousand people who really hated each other.
One day the big bad gray wolf decided he would eat all of the sixteen sheep. The people united and protested against the annoying wolf who then went huff-huff-puff and blew his nose at the oddly-shaped pigeon, who decided to kill the wolf and die quietly in an alley, because he was very drunk, and his plan worked.
But then he- j/k, it worked.  And again he killed himself and then his spirit and the wolf pondered the meaning of twenty fireflies and fifty snakes who saved Cyprus but destroyed all of Luxembourg's alliance, and then Cyprus, by tripping on a bomb that said 'DO NOT HELP CYPRUS LIVE!' Which didn't make any sense, but ate anyway, destroyed a Pizza Hut for all.
This is SPARTA and we kick your behinds. The pentamyriad shoe ate a pickle wearing a pirate hat, and we all rejoiced. But, just then a very big and hairy monster rained explosive diarrhea. Then everyone puked yellow spriggats and pissed of LethalLaurie. Which made a certifiably DISGUSTING display.
The next morning, everyone was very upset because the spriggats had destroyed the Muffin King's omelet stand with the awesome sandwich from a forgotten land of candy. The people decided to dispatch angry mosquitoes against their army of even number homicidal maniacs, because they hated candy, sandwiches, and omelets.

12
Forum Games / Re: The Three-Word Story Game
« on: March 20, 2011, 06:45:01 PM »
There were five hundred thousand people who really hated each other.
One day the big bad gray wolf decided he would eat all of the sixteen sheep. The people united and protested against the annoying wolf who then went huff-huff-puff and blew his nose at the oddly-shaped pigeon, who decided to kill the wolf and die quietly in an alley, because he was very drunk, and his plan worked.
But then he- j/k, it worked.  And again he killed himself and then his spirit and the wolf pondered the meaning of twenty fireflies and fifty snakes who saved Cyprus but destroyed all of Luxembourg's alliance, and then Cyprus, by tripping on a bomb that said 'DO NOT HELP CYPRUS LIVE!' Which didn't make any sense, but ate anyway, destroyed a Pizza Hut for all.
This is SPARTA and we kick your behinds. The pentamyriad shoe ate a pickle wearing a pirate hat, and we all rejoiced. But, just then a very big and hairy monster rained explosive diarrhea. Then everyone puked yellow spriggats and pissed of LethalLaurie. Which made a certifiably DISGUSTING display.
The next morning, everyone was very upset because the spriggats had destroyed the Muffin King's omelet stand with the awesome sandwich from a forgotten land of candy. The people decided to dispatch angry mosquitoes against their army of even number homicidal maniacs

13
Forum Games / Re: The Three-Word Story Game
« on: March 20, 2011, 06:17:19 PM »
There were five hundred thousand people who really hated each other.
One day the big bad gray wolf decided he would eat all of the sixteen sheep. The people united and protested against the annoying wolf who then went huff-huff-puff and blew his nose at the oddly-shaped pigeon, who decided to kill the wolf and die quietly in an alley, because he was very drunk, and his plan worked.
But then he- j/k, it worked.  And again he killed himself and then his spirit and the wolf pondered the meaning of twenty fireflies and fifty snakes who saved Cyprus but destroyed all of Luxembourg's alliance, and then Cyprus, by tripping on a bomb that said 'DO NOT HELP CYPRUS LIVE!' Which didn't make any sense, but ate anyway, destroyed a Pizza Hut for all.
This is SPARTA and we kick your behinds. The pentamyriad shoe ate a pickle wearing a pirate hat, and we all rejoiced. But, just then a very big and hairy monster rained explosive diarrhea. Then everyone puked yellow spriggats and pissed of LethalLaurie. Which made a certifiably DISGUSTING display.
The next morning, everyone was very upset because the spriggats had destroyed the Muffin King's omelet stand with the awesome sandwich from a forgotten land of candy. The people decided

14
Politics / Re: The Doomsday Theory
« on: March 20, 2011, 06:16:27 PM »
Maybe they thought they had plenty of time to continue the calender later.

15
Forum Games / Re: The Three-Word Story Game
« on: March 20, 2011, 06:13:39 PM »
There were five hundred thousand people who really hated each other.
One day the big bad gray wolf decided he would eat all of the sixteen sheep. The people united and protested against the annoying wolf who then went huff-huff-puff and blew his nose at the oddly-shaped pigeon, who decided to kill the wolf and die quietly in an alley, because he was very drunk, and his plan worked.
But then he- j/k, it worked.  And again he killed himself and then his spirit and the wolf pondered the meaning of twenty fireflies and fifty snakes who saved Cyprus but destroyed all of Luxembourg's alliance, and then Cyprus, by tripping on a bomb that said 'DO NOT HELP CYPRUS LIVE!' Which didn't make any sense, but ate anyway, destroyed a Pizza Hut for all.
This is SPARTA and we kick your behinds. The pentamyriad shoe ate a pickle wearing a pirate hat, and we all rejoiced. But, just then a very big and hairy monster rained explosive diarrhea. Then everyone puked yellow spriggats and pissed of LethalLaurie. Which made a certifiably DISGUSTING display.
The next morning, everyone was very upset because the spriggats had destroyed the Muffin King's omelet stand with the awesome sandwich from a forgotten

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