Games > TSoG

What are Spirits made of

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ArtDrake:
I don't know if this is at all relevant, but what Smarts is saying is reminding me of the system for human transmutation in Fullmetal Alchemist. Like, you could rearrange the carbon in a dead guy's body if you wanted to make them look nice again, but to make them functional and alive, you have to use human soul energy.

Of course, everything starts to remind you of Fullmetal Alchemist when you've been watching it for five days straight.

Steelfist:
I rather think my summary of the the flaws in your reasoning, SmartyPants, is still valid. And you ignored it completely. Referring back to your earlier statement (that if no argument is presented, your view is, by default, superior), does that not mean that you have conceded?


--- Quote from: SteelFist on March 01, 2012, 09:38:57 AM ---@SmartyPants:

I know what 'The Spirit Within' says. It's fairly clear. And you can quote it to your heart's content. However, the source is suspect, as you can in no way prove the book to be true or false (for reasons already mentioned and dismissed by yourself using what I can only call cherry picking) - and that is the way Craig prefers it, as evidenced by his avoidance of revealing the existence or lack thereof of Yawah. So, I feel fully able to dismiss an argument based of the aforementioned points.

Spirits return, as when you return to the cellar the spirits have returned. So they are either recreated or dissipated (Not sure who'd be recreating them - but then, that's your side of the argument, isn't it?).

A spirit could simply be an accidental projection, or it could be a sentient psy imprint made at the moment of death. Either is possible, in Cera Bella.

One of the important things to do when debating is to avoid dismissing hard facts with non-facts, as it makes you look foolish. It's a good idea to check before doing so - as in the case of the reappearance of spirits.

It is entirely possible that Craig added an alternate theory to provide an alternate explanation, and this isn't foolish, because many people would prefer an alternate explanation to spirits. Believing in either is a choice, disagreeing with you is not 'foolish'.

Thank you for your understanding.

--- End quote ---

In any case, I would refrain from comparing those who disagree with you to holocaust deniers and global warming deniers.

--- Quote from: SmartyPants on March 17, 2012, 11:21:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ertxiem on March 17, 2012, 09:52:46 AM ---It seems to me that your point is that people are in denial about spirits being dead people, so let's convince them otherwise by saying that spirits are created by psy powers?!
--- End quote ---
There is no convincing some of these people.  It is impossible to argue with someone who choose to ignore the existence of evidence that proves them wrong.  They act like holocaust deniers and some global warming deniers.  When the facts say something they don't agree with, they choose to believe the facts were falsely created by conspirators.

--- End quote ---
We are arguing with your evidence (Such as it is; one highly suspect book). Not denying its existence. In any case, your argument that the spirits being dead people is unlikely is confounded by the existence of psy powers in Cera Bella - which are also rather unlikely. Games such as this require a suspension of disbelief.

Our replies are not stubborn and irrational, as we are drawing on evidence. I can only surmise that you have an irrational bias against the possibility that spirits are dead people which is forcing you to recycle the evidence you possess, rather than concede that an equal possibility exists and it is a matter of choice. People like you - people who are uncomfortable with the concept of the spirits being dead people - is likely the reason the aforesaid alternative exists.

If you view your previous posts from the objective perspective you idolize, you will realize that this is a mostly civil argument interspersed by your rudeness and increasingly incoherent arguments.

Before criticizing another for direct criticism of yourself, recall that you did just compare them to a holocaust denier.

SmartyPants:
We are rather off topic, so I going to try to get the topic back on path.  If you want to continue to argue that The Spirit Within is conspiracy designed to confuse and lie the reader, then I suggest finding a new topic.


--- Quote from: SteelFist on February 25, 2012, 07:40:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: fourinone on February 25, 2012, 05:54:52 PM ---
--- Quote from: SmartyPants on February 24, 2012, 11:04:58 PM ---I always imagined that spirits were like a highly dense liquid held together by the spirit's psy defence [mental integrity].  Physical attacks would not cause real damage to a spirit's liquid body, but it would disrupt the spirit's ability to hold itself together.  More powerful spirits have great enough control of their psy defence [mental integrity] that they would be unfazed by physical attacks.  The spirit weapons will be dense enough to cause damage to physical beings.
--- End quote ---
I like this theory, that a spirit is held together by a mind shield. As we know, a mind shield can be affected by both physical and psy attacks. And when the mind shield breaks, the spirit dissipates.
--- End quote ---
I quite like the idea that it's some kind of solid state shield, but that would mean that Psy Defence and Psy Power are the same for spirits - and they aren't, because psy power would dictate your ability to keep one going and moving. In addition, that would result in a constant, severe drain on power, and would probably prevent them regenerating power. Which they do, between battles.
--- End quote ---
Spirits are made up of psy energy, which has the properties of a liquid in its physical form.  The only thing that gives shape to the liquid psy energy is the spirit's telekinetic powers densely compacting the liquid into a human form.  Spirits are not held together by mind shields, but rather, spirits need to keep their mental integrity (TRPG1's name for "hit points") to prevent themselves from dissipating.


--- Quote from: Ertxiem on February 27, 2012, 11:19:32 AM ---On the other hand, how close are Cygnus' duplicates to a ghost?
--- End quote ---
Maybe Cygnus's multiples are made in similar ways as spirits.  While the subconscious creation of a telepath is a spirit, the conscious creation would be a multiple.

Chocobo_Fan:
Hm. This is nitpicky, but I'm curious as to why you would think psy energy functions like a liquid when given physical form. Why not a gas? Indeed, a gas would make more sense, since spirits are described as "dissipating" when defeated. Gases are the only substances that can dissipate, really.

SmartyPants:
Liquid would be better because a highly dense liquid would be more likely to do melee damage than a gas.

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