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Author Topic: Iblis's Origins? [contains Crypt 4 spoilers]  (Read 2562 times)

SmartyPants

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Iblis's Origins? [contains Crypt 4 spoilers]
« on: February 25, 2012, 07:24:28 PM »

According to the The Spirit Within, a book from the fouth crypt, spirits might not be the minds of the departed, but rather, something created unconsciously by the telepaths themselves. In this theory, a spirit is simply a telepath's internal mental processes manifesting externally. The telepath obsessed with violence conjures violent spirits. The lonely telepath conjures companion spirits.

So where did Iblis come from?  My theory is that Iblis is the collective subconscious of the escaped laborers.  The freed laborers are fearful of the statue of Anu and being recaptured by the Ravinale Guard.  The laborers also possess feelings of betrayal for being enslaved by their own government.  After the Resistance brought all these Gifted people into the Bandit Cave, Iblis was created as a result of the freed laborers' feelings of fear and betrayal.

Chocobo_Fan

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Re: Iblis's Origins? [contains Crypt 4 spoilers]
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2012, 05:19:53 AM »

I thought that book's theory was rather explicitly false? All the spirits we meet in the game have the same personalities regardless of Duvalier's personality, so he can't be conjuring them himself. Spirits can also interact with other spirits, and can even affect the living. Duvalier's group also fights numerous hostile spirits even if Duvalier is nonviolent.

Also, Iblis says that he doesn't know his name, just that "someone called me that once", which seems to imply he's been down there a long time -- longer than the laborers have.
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SmartyPants

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Re: Iblis's Origins?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2012, 01:13:48 PM »

I thought that book's theory was rather explicitly false?
Why would Craig put in a factoid about spirits so late in the game?  It makes more sense that The Spirit Within gives a non-magically explanation to the spirits' existence.

All the spirits we meet in the game have the same personalities regardless of Duvalier's personality, so he can't be conjuring them himself.
That is because Luca (and maybe Rajav too) is the only spirit that Duvalier has created.  Even Luca's husband may have been created by a different telepath.  The telepath that created Fizooz didn't create him with a wife, so that is why Fizooz has no recollection of Luca.  Also, a spirit is unable to remember most of their past because they don't really have one.  Any memories that do have are vague because a telepath's internal mental processes can't create complex past experiences.  Luca is also able to have a huge personality change if Duvalier needs her to be more violent aka "The telepath obsessed with violence conjures violent spirits."

Spirits can also interact with other spirits, and can even affect the living.
Spirits are real, they just aren't dead people.  They effect the living because they are a telepath unconsciously using psy powers.

Duvalier's group also fights numerous hostile spirits even if Duvalier is nonviolent.
Those spirits have been abandoned by the telepathes that created them.  The telepathes' internal mental processes gave the spirits' a name and a purpose, but without the telepathes reinforcing the spirits names and purpose, the spirits become nameless, violent Jinns.

Also, Iblis says that he doesn't know his name, just that "someone called me that once", which seems to imply he's been down there a long time -- longer than the laborers have.
Iblis hasn't been there very long.  According to Rahel, the clans have often visited the statue of Anu without any problems.  Also, the bandits didn't have an issue with the statue.  Any past that Iblis imagened that he had isn't real.

Chocobo_Fan

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Re: Iblis's Origins? [contains Crypt 4 spoilers]
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2012, 04:25:02 PM »

Ah, I see, so the theory is that spirits are constructions that can interact with the rest of the world, not just in the telepath's own head... That does make the theory harder to refute.

However, I still think that there are holes in this theory. Why would Iblis have a complicated backstory? He talks about wandering the desert endlessly until he finally found the statue, and also rants about "her", who somehow "betrayed" him. How and why would the laborers make up such a complex personality? And why would they be afraid of a "her"? The high-standing members of the Cult are all men.

Also, we don't know how long the tunnel was blocked. It's possible the bandits just never went down there -- or they blocked it off when they found Iblis. I think a more likely explanation is that Iblis was a wandering Jinn who only came to inhabit the statue recently. That would match up with his story.
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SmartyPants

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Re: Iblis's Origins?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 06:29:56 AM »

However, I still think that there are holes in this theory. Why would Iblis have a complicated backstory? He talks about wandering the desert endlessly until he finally found the statue, and also rants about "her", who somehow "betrayed" him. How and why would the laborers make up such a complex personality? And why would they be afraid of a "her"? The high-standing members of the Cult are all men.
I wouldn't call Iblis's story "a complicated backstory".  Iblis tale is vague and has few details.  The reason that Iblis chose to personify his fears as a "her" is beyond me.  The human subconsious is a complex, mysterious thing.  Duvalier's subconsious created a women who needed helped fighting the people oppressing her husband.  Duvalier subconsious gave Luca a similar plight as himself, but she had to rescue her husband from thugs instead of saving one's parents from the Cult.  The subconsious doesn't always show deal with issues literally.  Like how your dreams don't directly tell you what they mean, the spirits created from ones mind don't have the exact same issues.

Also, we don't know how long the tunnel was blocked. It's possible the bandits just never went down there -- or they blocked it off when they found Iblis.
I pretty sure that Al'Salaam said the Resistance blocked the tunnel because of all the desert scorpions.