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Author Topic: Revival  (Read 10751 times)

SmartyPants

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Re: Revival
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2012, 10:18:06 PM »

Since we have not found a civilization of ancient human psys (as all of the spirits we have found resemble human forms and not shadowling's or spriggat's) I believe it is safe to assume the books theories are worthless and the author clearly had little understanding of spirits.
What the hell are you talking about?  This sounds like incoherent rambling to me.

It also states that only the Psy can hear the spirits, while Griffin cannot not hear Duvalier talking to the spirits, Malis certainly does and the rest of the group does not offer there opinion.
A) The book never says only Psys can hear spirits.  It says spirits tend to only interact with telepaths.
B) When Griffin didn't see Luca, it was because she didn't reveal herself to anyone besides Duvalier (her creator).  By the time Mails arrived, Luca has already revealed herself to all of the other resistance members.

Although, according to the Author, only the creator can hear them talk. While it is logical to assume the Author had little to no contact with shadowlings, that is no excuse for us to believe completely into his ignorance.
A) The author never said that only creator can talk to spirits.
B) It is baseless to assume that author has never had any contact with shadowlings.  Also, the author's familiarity with shadowlings seems irrelevant to the topic.

[I don't think Duvalier molds a soul charge into what he thinks the deceased person's mind is.  My impression is that Duvalier has to mold the soul charge to fit the person's mind or the person can't be revived.  The brain is like a lock and soul charge is like a key.  The key won't work unless it fits the lock, and a shaped soul charge won't work unless fits the deceased's brain.
I like this comparison a lot as it also eliminates the dreadful idea that Ert proposed about Duvalier and Nelis being able to change the personalities of the revived.
Zhampir agrees with me on one thing.  Then again, Zhampir probably only agrees with my quote because he mistakenly believed it came from SteelFist instead of me.

I ignored the rest of what Zhampir has said, because the rest his of post is either irrelevant gibberish or a personal attack against me.

Steelfist

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Re: Revival
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2012, 10:04:48 AM »

Since we have not found a civilization of ancient human psys (as all of the spirits we have found resemble human forms and not shadowling's or spriggat's) I believe it is safe to assume the books theories are worthless and the author clearly had little understanding of spirits.
What the hell are you talking about?  This sounds like incoherent rambling to me.

I think (And I'm stressing the word think here because I'm not sure) that the point he's making is that, if a projection can survive without its source still alive, there ought to be ancient projections, as they would still exist long after the destruction of the individual that created it. A possibility is that it runs out of energy, but that would render the crypt spirits impossible. If, however, they were spirits of the dead, many would still exist, so that makes either theory untenable. Solutions, anyone?

It is likely the author had little to do with shadowlings, due to their isolationism. However, we have no knowlege of how much contact he actually had with shadowlings, so the point is irrelevent.

I ignored the rest of what Zhampir has said, because the rest his of post is either irrelevant gibberish or a personal attack against me.

While some of the criticisms raised are valid, I concur that this is probably not the place to raise them in such numbers. Incidentally, ignoring someone because you deem what they are saying a 'personal attack' is to summarily dismiss all possibility that you may have flaws.
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SmartyPants

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Re: Revival
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2012, 11:49:32 AM »

I think (And I'm stressing the word think here because I'm not sure) that the point he's making is that, if a projection can survive without its source still alive, there ought to be ancient projections, as they would still exist long after the destruction of the individual that created it. A possibility is that it runs out of energy, but that would render the crypt spirits impossible. If, however, they were spirits of the dead, many would still exist, so that makes either theory untenable. Solutions, anyone?
Isn't the only time that the player sees recreated spirits is when Duvalier and his fellow Gifted soldiers see the spirits?  If a spirit can only be around be around when its creator is alive, then wouldn't that mean that the Resistance members are ones who create the psy projections?  Instead of the crypts being filled with actually ancient spirits, the crypts are filled with spirits that were subconsciously created by the Resistance members.  According to Duckling's Theory, Gifted humans can subconsciously use thought impressions as a outline or blueprint for the spirits they create.  Even if spirits aren't the actual souls of the dead, Duckling's Theory presents the possiblity that spirits could be based off of real dead people.

While some of the criticisms raised are valid, I concur that this is probably not the place to raise them in such numbers. Incidentally, ignoring someone because you deem what they are saying a 'personal attack' is to summarily dismiss all possibility that you may have flaws.
Lets not pretend that Zhampir's namecalling and insults are constructive criticism.  If calling me a "hypocrite", "Im2dumb4u", and "Sheldon the Closed Mind" weren't enough,  Zhampir decides to pridefully admit to insulting me:
I'm sorry if I've insulted anyone other that the one who needs the cobwebs cleaned out of his ears.

Zhampir

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Re: Revival
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2012, 07:28:13 AM »

I'm sorry for my attacks upon you. They were off base and uncalled for. I know it is no excuse but I was having a rather rough night and, as you may be able to tell, not coherently thinking.

Now that I am thinking more clearly I will attempt to look up the correct quotations and clarify what my thoughts about the spirits and Luca's ability to revive as I'm not sure which topic this is about anymore as there are 3 with a similar title. My ponderings will be in the form of an edit, but because I felt like I should apologize as soon as possible, here it is. I'm sorry for my actions, and I acknowledge that you have made many great contributions to the Telepath forums as well as the wiki. I'm sorry for the disrespect I have displayed so abruptly and abrasively. It was uncivil and unwanted. Patience is not one of my strong suits but I humbly request yours.
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