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Author Topic: The Spirit Within [Crypt 4 Spoiler]  (Read 11332 times)

SmartyPants

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Re: The Spirit Within [Crypt 4 Spoiler]
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2012, 07:31:39 PM »

Makes sense that spirits' power is proportional to their creators' powers.  After every crypt the Resistance members abilities grow, so that would explain why the spirits in every new crypt becomes stronger than the ones from the previous crypts.

I find it unlikely that Baz is Gifted, so I don't believe he is the creator of the cellar spirits.

It is a reasonable hypothesis to assume that Gifted humans can use thought impressions (from the living or the deceased) as a outline or blueprint for the spirits they create.  However, I would like to point out that the spirits' personalities and pasts are so simple that it seems likely that spirits can be created without the need for thought impressions. 

Griffin once said about Luca, "I've only actually seen her a couple of times when she hasn't been meditating in her corner back there, and she hasn't really spoken to me." Luca hardly does anything that doesn't directly involve Duvalier; which means her personality lacks any independence from Duvalier's mind.  If Luca was created with a personae of an actual dead person, then she would have a more independent will when Duvalier isn't around.

ArtDrake

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Re: The Spirit Within [Crypt 4 Spoiler]
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2012, 03:58:06 PM »

I see your point that most spirits tend not to be complex enough to warrant having been derived from thought impressions, that that they could truly be reflections of inner expectations and anxieties. For example, the three spirits one encounters when obtaining the Titan Shield orb with their power and hostility could have been projections of Duvalier's frustration from a feeling of lack of progress with his attempts to rescue his parents and help his home city.

On the other hand, I would like to think that some spirits have complex enough pasts and memories that they were derived from actual personae, such as Rajav, Luca, and maybe even Iblis.

I guess what's hanging me up on the idea that the spirits are purely projection of subconscious is that Duvalier doesn't find them everywhere. He consistently finds them in hidden, enclosed spaces, for the most part underground, in places where one would naturally expect there to have been deaths, and thus ghosts. So while the idea for the most part appeals to me, I think there has to be a separate trigger for the creation of spirits. Given the spirits' nature of being humanlike, and professing to be deceased, I find it to be a likely explanation that the "trigger" for the creation of the spirits, in conjunction with Duvalier's subconscious desires or anxieties, is Psy-linked traces of the dead: i.e., thought impressions.

So while for some ghosts, the actual deceased individual may not play a huge part in the created spirit, as with lesser ghost fights, where Duvalier creates them in a generic adversarial role, my suspicion is that the individual plays a larger role in other spirits, particularly those having more of a personality.

On a somewhat different note, do you suppose it is those spirits whose identity is more closely drawn from the deceased that have a greater chance to become a jinn?
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SmartyPants

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Re: The Spirit Within
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2012, 09:06:27 PM »

On the other hand, I would like to think that some spirits have complex enough pasts and memories that they were derived from actual personae, such as Rajav, Luca, and maybe even Iblis.
Based on what Rajav, Luca, and Iblis have said, the spirits have only a vague recollection of their obscure pasts.  I don't believe Luca's personality is the result of a dead person's thought impressions for reasons I gave earlier, and I believe that Iblis is the personification of the laborers' fears and anger, but I can't rule out that the possibility that a dead person's thought impression was used as the blueprint to create Rajav.  By having conversations with other resistance members, Rajav has shown signs that his personality has at least some independent from Duavlier's mind.  This could mean that Rajav isn't as exclusive to Duvalier's subconscious as Luca is, or it could mean that the thought impressions that helped created Rajav gave him some independence outside of Duvalier's immediate presence.

I guess what's hanging me up on the idea that the spirits are purely projection of subconscious is that Duvalier doesn't find them everywhere. He consistently finds them in hidden, enclosed spaces, for the most part underground, in places where one would naturally expect there to have been deaths, and thus ghosts.
Somewhat like Freddy Krueger, maybe one needs to believe in spirits for them to be an actual threat.  I remember camping  in the woods as a kid.  At night, I would have to walk some distance between my friend's campsite and my own.  Eventhough I logically knew there was nothing in the woods that was going to hurt me, I felt the need to keep a fast pace while walking between campsites, because I subconsciously feared that there was something lurking in the dark.  I imagen that if I was a psy like Duvalier, my mind would have created my subconscious fear by having a spirit lurk in the woods.  Duvalier has never seen a spirit until Baz told him about them.  If Duvalier was never told that spirits were in the basement, then Duvalier would have never subconsciously believed that spirits are in the basement, and his mind would have never created them there.  The same goes for the librarian saying that the Crypts were haunted.

ArtDrake

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Re: The Spirit Within [Crypt 4 Spoiler]
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2012, 05:28:26 PM »

I'm not going to debate you on your first point; I'm pretty much in agreement with you.

However, one rather has to wonder: if the spirits in the cellar are only present because they are reflections of Duvalier's fear, then why did the Gifted servant of Baz hear the spirits in the same place?
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SmartyPants

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Re: The Spirit Within [Crypt 4 Spoiler]
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2012, 07:33:59 PM »

However, one rather has to wonder: if the spirits in the cellar are only present because they are reflections of Duvalier's fear, then why did the Gifted servant of Baz hear the spirits in the same place?
Baz's gifted servant probably belived there were spirits is Baz's cellar, so then her mind created the spirit voices in the cellar.  Baz eventually finds out that spirits have plagued the servant, and then Baz tells Duvalier about it.  After being told about spirits, Duvalier believes there are spirits in cellar.  Duvalier's new beliefs create the spirits in the basement.

ArtDrake

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Re: The Spirit Within [Crypt 4 Spoiler]
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2012, 08:02:00 PM »

Just so you know, I'm not convinced. However, I can think of no more evidence which would bring to light the nature of Spirits further, so I shall have to remain uncertain on the point of whether Spirits are purely manifestations of fear and anxiety and other basic, subconscious ideas, or whether they are, in fact, based in part on the dead.
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SmartyPants

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Re: The Spirit Within [Crypt 4 Spoiler]
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2013, 10:04:20 AM »

In a Kickstarter Update, Craig said spirits "are some sort of weird psychic manifestation of powerful psy."  This would explain why a prodigy like Duvalier had way more interactions with spirits than the less powerful psychics.

SmartyPants

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Re: The Spirit Within [Crypt 4 Spoiler]
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2016, 01:55:21 PM »

Apparently there is a trope about a resounding psychic echo. "The ghost isn't even the person's soul, but just a spectral imprint left behind by the person's death that's gained a form of sentience. In paranormal fields, these are usually called residual hauntings."
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