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Poll

Would you like to see Phantom Armor in the Telepath Tactics campaign?

Definitely
- 1 (25%)
Yes
- 1 (25%)
Maybe
- 1 (25%)
No
- 1 (25%)
Hell No
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4


Author Topic: Phantom Armors  (Read 3376 times)

SmartyPants

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Phantom Armors
« on: February 07, 2013, 12:50:22 PM »

Phantom Armor - the hardiest of the flying units, with powerful slashing attacks but low movement speed. Phantom armor can regenerate itself when damaged.

During initial development, Phantom Armors were one of 24 classes in Telepath Tactics multiplayer.  However, the phantom armor class was removed because it didn't fill a useful gameplay niche for the multiplayer.

As for what it is...well, there's a decent chance that the Phantom Armor will appear in a future, single player game using the Telepath Tactics engine, so we can discuss that if and when that happens. :)
Now that there is a "single player game using the Telepath Tactics engine", it seems like a good time for the fans to discuss whether they want to see a Phantom Armor in the Telepath Tactics campaign.

ArtDrake

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Re: Phantom Armors
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 02:41:43 PM »

What part of "we can discuss that if and when that happens" doesn't mean "later" to you?
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CraigStern

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Re: Phantom Armors
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 08:20:04 PM »

Keep it civil, guys. :|

The main thing standing in the way of phantom armor right now is the time and expense of adding in new units: expense, because pixel art costs money to commission, and time, because it's a long process designing and animating a new unit type from scratch. As far as characters go, my top two priorities with the Kickstarter money I raise next month are going to be (1) getting alternate genders in for the various unit types, and (2) getting various NPCs we can use throughout the campaigns. Phantom armors are incidental enemies that do not play any sort of significant story role, so getting them is less of a priority.
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SmartyPants

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Re: Phantom Armors
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 08:38:11 PM »

What part of "we can discuss that if and when that happens" doesn't mean "later" to you?
When Craig wrote "we can discuss that if and when that happens", he wasn't playing on creating a campaign untill after he finished Telepath Tactics.  However, he changed his mind and decided to add a campaign to the current Telepath Tactics.  That means "later" was moved up to "now".

At this point, I am just going to assume that Duckling's constant rudeness is an incurable personality flaw.

ArtDrake

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Re: Phantom Armors
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2013, 07:48:36 PM »

I regret that I didn't choose a more tactful way of expressing my thoughts. Not so much because I have been called out on it, but because I realize that my question caused hurt where I did not intend for it to do so. I will admit to being mildly irritated at SmartyPants' [or, since I am speaking a group including the wronged party, "your"] insistence of the importance of including certain features when, as I see it, it has been made clear that the budget and timeline have restrictions that make it such that the phase of tossing old ideas in to see if they stick is pretty much over.

But then, I don't think my intentions were really in the right place, since I certainly didn't say what I said meaning to be kind. :[

On that note, I'd like to apologize to SmartyPants and to everyone who had to see the remark for that moment of ugliness. As for other less-than-decorous exchanges [with some notable exceptions about which I am indeed sorry], I feel that the breaches of conduct were roughly mutual.

[for that matter, speaking scathingly about someone in the third person when they are present is certainly less than kind, SmartyPants.]
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SmartyPants

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Re: Phantom Armors
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2013, 08:22:44 PM »

I will admit to being mildly irritated at SmartyPants' insistence of the importance of including certain features when, as I see it, it has been made clear that the budget and timeline have restrictions that make it such that the phase of tossing old ideas in to see if they stick is pretty much over.
I am not insisting anything.  In fact, I only voted "yes" for energy golems and "maybe" for phantom armors.  Since Telepath Tactics doesn't revolve around me, there are forum polls that survey ideas that don't have my strong support.  The polls are only here to help determine whether ideas are worth doing.  For example, due to the lack of support the poll shows, I wouldn't think the phantom armors would be worth doing.  After the march Kickstarter, it will be made clear what the budget and timeline restrictions are. I see this as the last opportunity to suggest big ideas, because Craig is still having his artist working on creating sprites and animations.

ArtDrake

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Re: Phantom Armors
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 12:04:30 AM »

... energy golem class was removed because its unlimitted [sic] range make the unit overpowered compared to other classes.

... disappointment of many fans... previous poll suggests that energy golems are overwhelming people's favorite type of golem... opportunity to see the return of the energy golem... will be wierd [sic] for the Dundar Archipelago to have stone golems and bronze golems, yet not having [sic] any energy golems.

Saying it would be a serious fan letdown and "wierd" not to have energy golems as a unit type seems to me to be an insistence that you would indeed like for the decision not to include the unit to be reconsidered.

But the only thing we're actually discussing here is whether I had good reason to be irked, and the fact is that even if you show beyond all doubt that you weren't insisting that Craig should reconsider his noninclusion of both unit types, it won't change the fact that I got annoyed at you in the first place and snapped. All that remains is the matter of whether I will do this again -- I certainly hope not.

My thoughts would be that Craig get more animations done before the game is complete, including another class and group of attacks and more content. However, this takes time, and if an idea has been determined not to add to the existing depth of the game that makes it so appealing for what I presume would be a large chunk of its audience, it becomes a low priority, in that it's really probably not worth the time and/or money it would take to include this content, at least insofar as the change represents any increase in eventual sales. Would any extra classes, no matter what they are, be very easily justified expenses of time and money at this stage of development? Probably not.

The second matter is that Craig seems to like to do nice things for his fans [like the matter of being able to get and set character stats from dialogue -- thank you again for that], and I worry that if we keep asking these things of him, he might go ahead and do them, despite it being something with little tangible benefit and visible cost in labor. I realise in hindsight that I'm a complete idiot for thinking I have any right whatsoever to try and regulate the ideas that come into the final game like that, or manage Craig's agenda, but hindsight is 20/16 like that. Really. Complete idiot. Me. Huge.  :(
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CraigStern

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Re: Phantom Armors
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2013, 11:17:01 AM »

Hey, guys: the game supports modding. In a worst case scenario, you can totally make your own Energy Golems and stick 'em in the game. Just sayin'. ;)
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SmartyPants

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Re: Phantom Armors
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2013, 11:19:17 AM »

After going through and ignoring all the unfriendly, sarcastic gibberish in his posts, I concluded that Duckling is saying that he doesn't think the Phantom Armor is worth the time and money to be put in the game.  I agree to a certain degree with that sentiment, but not strongly enought to vote "No".  I voted "Maybe" because while I wouldn't oppose the idea of adding another class, I don't find the concept particularly exciting.

Unlike the energy golem, there isn't any particular interesting about the Phantom Armor that catches my attention.  I'm not even sure if the floating armor is a spirit, a golem, a human, or an artificial construct like Cygnus's multiples.


Hey, guys: the game supports modding. In a worst case scenario, you can totally make your own Energy Golems and stick 'em in the game. Just sayin'. ;)
True, but if it was easy to make high quality sprites and animations, then you wouldn't have needed to hire someone who had the expertise to do so.

ArtDrake

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Re: Phantom Armors
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2013, 03:34:14 PM »

*Edited to stay on topic*

I actually am intrigued by the Phantom Armor, for the very same reasons it fails to interest you -- it's a loric blind spot, as far as I know. I'd love to read an explanation of that in a Telepath game at some point down the line. However, I'm not seeing a strong niche for it in combat. Maybe if it had high slashing attack power, very low speed, but could pass through absolutely everything. Then again, that might break a map or two.

As such, I don't feel that it would be a worthy inclusion in TT at this point.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 06:02:13 PM by CraigStern »
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CraigStern

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Re: Phantom Armors
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2013, 06:02:48 PM »

Guys: keep the squabbling to PMs, please.
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