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Author Topic: New attacks for teammates  (Read 110721 times)

KZ

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #90 on: March 16, 2010, 06:11:09 AM »

Actually, Presentiment, I think this attack can be used quite often, as it allows the player to expand the positioning of units on the map and allow for such rare things like fontal attack on an enemy, without the need to surround it and expose the units. It also allows to mount an all-around attack on the enemy, surrounding it from all 8 squares and being able to deal damage much more quickly. It also allows the Spearman to be used in maps with many obstacles- where other units are rendered useless 'cause of a boulder, for instance, the Spearman can do the job, making him much more versatile.

About Piercing Throw, I believe people raised issues about this encroaching into Rahel's territory of ranged attacks. Personally, I really like it and think it a logical extension of Throw, but then it would seem that the Spearman would be a much more complete teammate than Rahel.
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Presentiment

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2010, 11:20:30 PM »

Yes, but it still won't be used often because those examples are highly situational, requiring an enemy unit to be adjacent and the Spearman nicely ensconced between some boulders.

Which means although it can occasionally be useful, it won't be used often.

So it won't level up.

Making it weak.
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Zackirus

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #92 on: March 18, 2010, 08:34:28 AM »

Yes, but it still won't be used often because those examples are highly situational, requiring an enemy unit to be adjacent and the Spearman nicely ensconced between some boulders.

Which means although it can occasionally be useful, it won't be used often.

So it won't level up.

Making it weak.

Agreeing with KZ on this one I believe that this attack would be very useful. Firs in the situation where the spearman is out of reach of an enemy.

OOEO
OSOO E= Enemy S= Spearman O= Unaffected Space

Sound when you attack a boss, I usually like you have the order:

OOOAOOO             
OGOBOOO
OOOSOOO
OOOMOOO
OOOCOOO
OOLHOOO
A= Assassin, B= Boss, S= Swordsmen, M= Main, C= Archer, H= Healer, L= Luca, G= Spearman

But with the right and left jab, I can attack diagonally because the Boss usually targets my assassin, I can have this Position

OOOAOOO             
OOOBOOO
OOOSGOO
OOOMOOO
OOOCOOO
OOLHOOO
Thus I can have one more unit doing backstab damage and maybe result in killing the boss.

The final situation where you could use this is when you are in a bottleneck situation.

XXOOOXX
XXXDXXX
XXOSOXX
XXOGOXX
XXOCOXX
XXLHMXX
 D= Dark Spriggat, S= Swordsmen, M= Main, C= Archer, H= Healer, L= Luca, G= Spearman
Which in this case laves my main out of the situation or

XXOOOXX
XXXDXXX
XXGSOXX
XXOMOXX
XXOCOXX
XXLHOXX
Which in this case more damage can be dealt to the Spriggat.

 
 
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KZ

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #93 on: March 18, 2010, 11:37:47 AM »

Presentiment, I think you're not using your imagination, I just gave an example of how it can be used, but it can be easily extended: just in how many situations do you gang up on an enemy to kill it? And just how often you try to work out what the best spacing around the enemy is, to give it maxmium damage? Left/Right Jab allows the player to use 4 more tiles around any given enemy. A creative player and a good tactician will find frequent use for this attack, especially in a team where there is more than one "tank"-type teammate.
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Zhampir

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #94 on: March 18, 2010, 04:59:39 PM »

for instance

OOAOOOO
MLEGOOO
OODSOOO
OOOROOO


E : Enemy
M: malis
L: Luca
G: Griffan
S: spearman
A: Arman
D: Duvalier
R: Rahel

using this formation you can effectively cut off an enemy (say a boss) and attack him with all characters. Duvalier and Luca use mind blast, Arman stabs, Griffin slashes, Rahel splits her shot (or she can pretty much be anywhere and still hit), and the spear-man hits diagonally. Effectively eliminating whatever they were attacking. The spearman would simply allow for another hard hitting attack.
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Presentiment

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #95 on: March 18, 2010, 05:34:50 PM »

Presentiment, I think you're not using your imagination, I just gave an example of how it can be used, but it can be easily extended: just in how many situations do you gang up on an enemy to kill it? And just how often you try to work out what the best spacing around the enemy is, to give it maxmium damage? Left/Right Jab allows the player to use 4 more tiles around any given enemy. A creative player and a good tactician will find frequent use for this attack, especially in a team where there is more than one "tank"-type teammate.

And that's irrelevant because solo enemies rarely last more than a few turns once surrounded. We don't even have four units without a ranged attack, so there isn't any lack of CQC room.

The jabs will rarely be used in comparison to other attacks. It is basically only useful against enemies six squares away, because Melee trumps it in any other situation.
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KZ

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #96 on: March 18, 2010, 05:41:48 PM »

Have you played TPA2?
'Cause that would've been a good strating point to see the many combinations when the enemy is moving in a block and is very difficult to surround. Having 4, instead of 3 teammates on one enemy in a formation might result in an eventual win of the game.
Then there is also tactical angle: if it so happens that your Spearman goes before another melee unit, it might be possible to keep line-of-movement clear for the next melee unit to attack the enemy, or clear the pathway with a jab, so there are quite a few uses to this jab. Much like the Solid State Shield: it has many uses too, though it isn't used too often.

Anyhow, any more creative ideas for other teammates, folks? I'd think Arman should get more attacks, as he lacks variety a little.
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Zhampir

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #97 on: March 18, 2010, 06:00:36 PM »

What ever happened to poisoning his blade?
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KZ

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #98 on: March 18, 2010, 06:05:24 PM »

Seems like Craig dropped the idea, at least for TPA2.
I agree that it would be nice to give him a strength-sapping attack. Like poison-stab. Powerful against such enemies as Ravinale Guards.
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Frosty

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #99 on: March 19, 2010, 05:36:00 PM »

I think a good new attack for Griffin would be wound, which is sorta like sap, only its a physical attack. I also think Arman should learn to throw his knife like Niven does with Knife Fling.
This is my idea from really long ago, and I just thought to bring it back.
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SmartyPants

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #100 on: March 19, 2010, 06:00:47 PM »

I think a good new attack for Griffin would be wound, which is sorta like sap, only its a physical attack. I also think Arman should learn to throw his knife like Niven does with Knife Fling.
This is my idea from really long ago, and I just thought to bring it back.
Arman is an Assassin; not a knife thrower.  With a speed of 9 and bonus to attack from behind, a range attack wouln't be useful.
"Wound" doesn't make sense, because every attack that doesn't kill is a wound.

KZ

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #101 on: March 19, 2010, 06:04:46 PM »

And what think you of a poison-based attack? Say it's a variation on his standard attack, just enhanced with Desert Scorpion poison: methinks that as an assassin, that would be quite logical to use. Plus, it's still a one-enemy-hit attack, and uses the same MO, so it should fit in with the units ability. And it can come in highly useful against strength-based units, to such an extent as to change the outcome of a battle. Something like 3-4 PsP for use as well (skillfull application of poison onto the blade mid-battle, with the Gift used to guide the knife along the fastest and deadliest path to the target).
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Zhampir

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #102 on: March 19, 2010, 06:11:54 PM »

That idea has come up quite a bit, eh, KZ? I'm in favor of the poison attack. Twould make sense, as Arman could dash behind the enemy lines, poison the boss, and dash back allowing an easier job for the tanks.
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SmartyPants

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #103 on: March 19, 2010, 06:49:08 PM »

And what think you of a poison-based attack? Say it's a variation on his standard attack, just enhanced with Desert Scorpion poison: methinks that as an assassin, that would be quite logical to use. Plus, it's still a one-enemy-hit attack, and uses the same MO, so it should fit in with the units ability. And it can come in highly useful against strength-based units, to such an extent as to change the outcome of a battle. Something like 3-4 PsP for use as well (skillfull application of poison onto the blade mid-battle, with the Gift used to guide the knife along the fastest and deadliest path to the target).
It is good idea, but Craig has said multiple times that it would be difficult to code.

KZ

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Re: New attacks for teammates
« Reply #104 on: March 19, 2010, 06:52:25 PM »

Has he now? I do remember that the speed-reduction is the one that is very difficult to code, but I don't recollect him saying anything about strength-reducing attacks. (After all, it doesn't affect how the AI should behave, which is a big plus.)
What I do remember is that he initially planned to introduce them for TPA2, but, ostensibly, wanted to speed up the release of TPA2, hence decided to omit them at a later stage.
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