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Author Topic: Thoughts on WWII  (Read 7442 times)

Duskling

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Thoughts on WWII
« on: July 11, 2010, 06:05:09 AM »

I have watched many a documentery about World War II, and I thought, "Really, what do people think of this war? 'End' of the Nazis? Hitler's reign of terror being over? A horrible, horrible war with many casualties?" What do you, the forum goers, think of WWII (if necessary, move this to Politics)?
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Steel Ersatz Man

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2010, 07:23:54 AM »

Germany should have quit while they were ahead when they took over Poland. End of.
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Steelfist

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2010, 08:36:26 AM »

It was only after the invasion of Poland that WW2 officially began, as Britain declared war after they refused to withdraw.

In my opinion, WW2 was necessary. Not pleasant, but as diplomacy failed, it was necessary to stop both Germany and the Japan - both had an expansionist outlook. Although, dropping Little Boy on Hiroshima is a decision I am unable to endorse. The total of all deaths caused by that rose to over the three million mark. Horrendous.

In addition, the war as fostered a very anti-German (much less so, in my opinion, for Japan) sentiment across the world. This has largely faded, now, in my opinion.

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MikeW781

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2010, 12:33:04 PM »

The was was the fault of the WWI Allies, and some brains could have avoided WWII completely. At the end of WWI, the Allied leaders selfishly, and, in my view, foolishly, blamed the entire war on Germany, then punished them accordingly. This was a shortsighted move that solved some PR issues in the short run, but left Germany with resentment. Even worse, we left German soil as fast as possible to appease the people, not realizing the deep resentment the Germans would have. Metaphorically, we kicked Germany in the soft spot, gave them the finger, then shoved them in the mud. After this, we said "That taught them a lesson!" and turned around.
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SmartyPants

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2010, 03:30:34 PM »

Although, dropping Little Boy on Hiroshima is a decision I am unable to endorse. The total of all deaths caused by that rose to over the three million mark. Horrendous.
Everyone who knows anything about WWII history knows that the atomic bombs ended WWII early therefore saving lives on both sides.  If America was forced to invade Japan, then every man, women, and child would have fought in the defence of the Empieror.  The Japanese's inability to surrender would force Americas to do an almost genocidal campaign in Japan.  It would also cause the loss of millions of Ally soldiers.  Plus, if we didn't end the war before the Soviets came to help, then Japan would be split in half like Germany and Korea.  Read the alternative.

In addition, the war as fostered a very anti-German (much less so, in my opinion, for Japan) sentiment across the world. This has largely faded, now, in my opinion.
Anti-German and anti-japanese thoughts ended very quickly in the west because West Germany and Japan became our allies against the Soviets.

MikeW781

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2010, 05:03:09 PM »

Although, dropping Little Boy on Hiroshima is a decision I am unable to endorse. The total of all deaths caused by that rose to over the three million mark. Horrendous.
Everyone who knows anything about WWII history knows that the atomic bombs ended WWII early therefore saving lives on both sides.  If America was forced to invade Japan, then every man, women, and child would have fought in the defence of the Empieror.  The Japanese's inability to surrender would force Americas to do an almost genocidal campaign in Japan.  It would also cause the loss of millions of Ally soldiers.  Plus, if we didn't end the war before the Soviets came to help, then Japan would be split in half like Germany and Korea.  Read the alternative.

There were other options. Some sites suggested announcement of the bomb to the Japenese, then using it if they refused surrender. Also, IMHO the Japenese's policy of defending to the last breath has been exxagerated. Every "man, woman, and child" is a ridiculus exxageration.
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Tastidian

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2010, 11:09:00 PM »

My thoughts are is WWII started because of WWI. The treaty of versailles which is the allies fault. They never invited the other countries which is the other powers. They pinned it all on Germany and making them pay millions upon billions of dollars also limited their army to 50,000 with no navy or airforce. Making the great depression even more worse in Germany which Adolf Hitler used to gain his power as Chancellor then creating mass propaganda on you know what. The using blitzcrige to take their foes out including their superior Luftwaffe. Taking out Europe and parts of Northern Africa. Then hammering England exhausting the Royal Airforce (RAF) then U.S. Troops came in took out the grip Germany had on Africa and protecting the Parlament and the Tower of London. Then hammered at Germany on west front while Russia took care of the  Eastern front. Stupidly of Germany they betrayed Russia because Hitler hates communist too. Also the heavy water in the fyords in Scandanavia area. I know it's somewhere there and the (RAF) took it out just in time. Germany could have probably made the atom bomb but due to Hitler Albert Einsitne and another smart man ran away to the U.S. and helped develop the atom bomb later used on Japan. On a conquest to rule all of Asia. Mistakenly attacking Pearl Harbor and then leaflets was bombed on Japan. These leaflets tell them that a new super weapon is about to be used on them. Then 2 stopes on Nagasaki and Heroshima. Another 3 was about to be droped on Tokyo and other two major cities. Ending WWII
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Steel Ersatz Man

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2010, 11:45:36 PM »

Apparently, because of WWII, we moved up about 10 years in technology. If WWII hadn't happened, there'd be no Telepath rpg!
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Bromtaghon

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2010, 07:26:45 PM »

There would- just in 2020.
Is it true that the atomic bomb was dropped because of a communication mistranslation or is that just an urban legend?
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Tastidian

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2010, 11:11:34 PM »

There would- just in 2020.
Is it true that the atomic bomb was dropped because of a communication mistranslation or is that just an urban legend?

Urban legend, but the other three I mentioned earlier its true but because it was foggy.
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SmartyPants

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 11:44:58 AM »

There were other options. Some sites suggested announcement of the bomb to the Japenese, then using it if they refused surrender. Also, IMHO the Japenese's policy of defending to the last breath has been exxagerated. Every "man, woman, and child" is a ridiculus exxageration.
Japan was warned of "prompt and utter destruction", yet they still didn't surrender unconditionally.
Quote
The Japanese code of bushidoŚ"the way of the warrior"Śwas deeply ingrained. The concept of Yamato-damashii equipped each soldier with a strict code: never be captured, never break down, and never surrender. Surrender was dishonorable. Each soldier was trained to fight to the death and was expected to die before suffering dishonor. Defeated Japanese leaders preferred to take their own lives in the painful samurai ritual of seppuku (called hara kiri in the West). Warriors who surrendered were not deemed worthy of regard or respect."
-Air Force account wouldn't call it an exageration
The Japanese soldiers wouldn't surrender when defending the Philippines, so what make you think they would surrender while defending the homeland.  In order to defend Japan, the soldiers were willing to fly their plains into ships.


My thoughts are is WWII started because of WWI. The treaty of versailles which is the allies fault. They never invited the other countries which is the other powers. They pinned it all on Germany and making them pay millions upon billions of dollars also limited their army to 50,000 with no navy or airforce. Making the great depression even more worse in Germany which Adolf Hitler used to gain his power as Chancellor then creating mass propaganda on you know what. The using blitzcrige to take their foes out including their superior Luftwaffe. Taking out Europe and parts of Northern Africa. Then hammering England exhausting the Royal Airforce (RAF) then U.S. Troops came in took out the grip Germany had on Africa and protecting the Parlament and the Tower of London. Then hammered at Germany on west front while Russia took care of the  Eastern front. Stupidly of Germany they betrayed Russia because Hitler hates communist too. Also the heavy water in the fyords in Scandanavia area. I know it's somewhere there and the (RAF) took it out just in time. Germany could have probably made the atom bomb but due to Hitler Albert Einsitne and another smart man ran away to the U.S. and helped develop the atom bomb later used on Japan. On a conquest to rule all of Asia. Mistakenly attacking Pearl Harbor and then leaflets was bombed on Japan. These leaflets tell them that a new super weapon is about to be used on them. Then 2 stopes on Nagasaki and Heroshima. Another 3 was about to be droped on Tokyo and other two major cities. Ending WWII
You are right about multiple things, but many things I disagree with.  I do agree that the German people elected Hitler because he preached "Change" when the economy is bad (even American has elected a unfit leader when the economy is bad), but Germany has to take responsibilty for starting both WWI and WWII.  Albert Einstein did not work on the Manhattan Project.  He wrote a letter to President Franklin D. Roosevelt which led to the Manhattan Project and his published theories were the fondation of the atomic bomb, but Einstein was not a major part of the Manhattan Project.  I don't know where you go the idea about dropping more atomic bombs.  The USA had only producted two bombs during WWII and the US bluffed about having more.  Plus Tokyo wasn't a target, because it was already destroyed worst then Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Tastidian

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2010, 03:15:53 PM »

There were other options. Some sites suggested announcement of the bomb to the Japenese, then using it if they refused surrender. Also, IMHO the Japenese's policy of defending to the last breath has been exxagerated. Every "man, woman, and child" is a ridiculus exxageration.
Japan was warned of "prompt and utter destruction", yet they still didn't surrender unconditionally.
Quote
The Japanese code of bushidoŚ"the way of the warrior"Śwas deeply ingrained. The concept of Yamato-damashii equipped each soldier with a strict code: never be captured, never break down, and never surrender. Surrender was dishonorable. Each soldier was trained to fight to the death and was expected to die before suffering dishonor. Defeated Japanese leaders preferred to take their own lives in the painful samurai ritual of seppuku (called hara kiri in the West). Warriors who surrendered were not deemed worthy of regard or respect."
-Air Force account wouldn't call it an exageration
The Japanese soldiers wouldn't surrender when defending the Philippines, so what make you think they would surrender while defending the homeland.  In order to defend Japan, the soldiers were willing to fly their plains into ships.


My thoughts are is WWII started because of WWI. The treaty of versailles which is the allies fault. They never invited the other countries which is the other powers. They pinned it all on Germany and making them pay millions upon billions of dollars also limited their army to 50,000 with no navy or airforce. Making the great depression even more worse in Germany which Adolf Hitler used to gain his power as Chancellor then creating mass propaganda on you know what. The using blitzcrige to take their foes out including their superior Luftwaffe. Taking out Europe and parts of Northern Africa. Then hammering England exhausting the Royal Airforce (RAF) then U.S. Troops came in took out the grip Germany had on Africa and protecting the Parlament and the Tower of London. Then hammered at Germany on west front while Russia took care of the  Eastern front. Stupidly of Germany they betrayed Russia because Hitler hates communist too. Also the heavy water in the fyords in Scandanavia area. I know it's somewhere there and the (RAF) took it out just in time. Germany could have probably made the atom bomb but due to Hitler Albert Einsitne and another smart man ran away to the U.S. and helped develop the atom bomb later used on Japan. On a conquest to rule all of Asia. Mistakenly attacking Pearl Harbor and then leaflets was bombed on Japan. These leaflets tell them that a new super weapon is about to be used on them. Then 2 stopes on Nagasaki and Heroshima. Another 3 was about to be droped on Tokyo and other two major cities. Ending WWII
You are right about multiple things, but many things I disagree with.  I do agree that the German people elected Hitler because he preached "Change" when the economy is bad (even American has elected a unfit leader when the economy is bad), but Germany has to take responsibilty for starting both WWI and WWII.  Albert Einstein did not work on the Manhattan Project.  He wrote a letter to President Franklin D. Roosevelt which led to the Manhattan Project and his published theories were the fondation of the atomic bomb, but Einstein was not a major part of the Manhattan Project.  I don't know where you go the idea about dropping more atomic bombs.  The USA had only producted two bombs during WWII and the US bluffed about having more.  Plus Tokyo wasn't a target, because it was already destroyed worst then Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

WWI was because of Austria Hungary when the Duke was assassinated everyone was already allied and the assassination was the spark of the war. Yes Germany should have taken responsibility but it was quite unfair. Now if he never wrote that letter where would we be? As for the more bombs the fat man(plutonium) and little boy(uranium) was the only two dropped the U.S. had quite the stockpile so tis possible There was about the same amount killed and Tokyo was more wildly populated so it would make sense about the same amount died. 
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SmartyPants

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2010, 08:40:17 PM »

WWI was because of Austria Hungary when the Duke was assassinated everyone was already allied and the assassination was the spark of the war. Yes Germany should have taken responsibility but it was quite unfair. Now if he never wrote that letter where would we be? As for the more bombs the fat man(plutonium) and little boy(uranium) was the only two dropped the U.S. had quite the stockpile so tis possible There was about the same amount killed and Tokyo was more wildly populated so it would make sense about the same amount died. 
France, England, and America would have stayed out of WWI if Germany didn't invade France through neutral countries.  Do your research because there wasn't any stockpile of nuclear weapons untill WWII ended.  A third atomic bomb was in the making when the bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. The USA couldn't drop a bomb they don't have.  So you agree that Tokyo was already destroyed, yet you still claim that is would have been the third target? ::)

MikeW781

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2010, 05:14:18 AM »

There were other options. Some sites suggested announcement of the bomb to the Japenese, then using it if they refused surrender. Also, IMHO the Japenese's policy of defending to the last breath has been exxagerated. Every "man, woman, and child" is a ridiculus exxageration.
Japan was warned of "prompt and utter destruction", yet they still didn't surrender unconditionally
The Americans never said with what. The Japanese thought this was just talk, having never heard of the atomic bomb before. How pathetic would a goverment look if they quit a war they had already invested so much in just because we said we'd destroy them? If we had told them about the bomb, and showed it to them, they would have been able to save face and quit the war.
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SmartyPants

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Re: Thoughts on WWII
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2010, 08:05:05 AM »

The Americans never said with what. The Japanese thought this was just talk, having never heard of the atomic bomb before. How pathetic would a goverment look if they quit a war they had already invested so much in just because we said we'd destroy them? If we had told them about the bomb, and showed it to them, they would have been able to save face and quit the war.
So you think is a better idea for the USA to tell the Japs that city destroying weapon that vastly more powerful then any weapon before it and when the Japs don't beileve their enemy, then the USA should do a visiable test that might still not convince them to surrender.  If they still don't surrender, then the USA has lost a bomb that costs several millions(billions in today's money) and now they only have one more bomb to use.  At the time, Truman made the right choice and to think otherwise would be naive.
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