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Author Topic: What's your religion?  (Read 33028 times)

cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #345 on: February 23, 2011, 09:07:28 PM »

I think you can sin without fully realizing what you are doing. For example, when Jesus was dying, he said "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they are doing."  They might have known they were killing an innocent man, but they certainly didn't realize they were killing the son of God. But, Jesus still asked God to forgive them.
So then, thinking something is yours because it looks identical to it and taking it is a sin? Killing is a crime and morally wrong altogether, don't get me wrong, but what if a kid sees a lollipop on a counter and just takes it because it looks like nobody wants it? Would that child be a sinner? Would he/she go to Hell because of a mistake?
That isn't exactly what I meant. It's one thing to make an honest mistake. I'm talking about saying or doing something that you really shouldn't be saying or doing, but not realizing then that what you are doing is really a bad thing. Something that doesn't look wrong at first, but if you look at it in hindsight, it's wrong.
And as for the child, they wouldn't go to Hell for taking a lollipop by mistake. But, taking a lollipop probably wouldn't be the thing that would cause someone to go to Hell. Living a life apart or away from God, or doing your own thing and turning your back to God, is what would cause someone to go to Hell. It isn't as much of a certain sin, but a way of life.

And, Ducky, there is a verse somewhere where basically, King David's son dies shortly after birth. (King David was, for the most part, a really good king. In one cases, he is described as a man after God's own heart) David mentions that he will see his son again in heaven. So, before a certain age (though I really don't have a clue just how young that age is) you aren't held accountable.
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ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #346 on: February 24, 2011, 05:51:46 PM »

But you have to be baptized, right?
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #347 on: February 24, 2011, 06:01:29 PM »

It's best, and it's a way of showing/telling people you are a Christian. However, you don't have to be baptized to be a Christian or go to heaven. When Jesus was dying on the cross, this little exchange went on between the two other men being crucified next to him.
Luke 23:39-43
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

There was no possible way for the criminal to have been able to be baptized. He died shortly later. But, Jesus still says he will be with him in paradise (heaven).
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ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #348 on: February 24, 2011, 06:04:18 PM »

If you had no way of knowing about Christianity, then what happens, if you haven't sinned, and you die? Limbo?
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #349 on: February 24, 2011, 06:38:07 PM »

If you had no way of knowing about Christianity, then what happens, if you haven't sinned, and you die? Limbo?
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
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Deagonx

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #350 on: February 26, 2011, 09:10:38 PM »

If you had no way of knowing about Christianity, then what happens, if you haven't sinned, and you die? Limbo?

Well, our redemption from sin IS him.
If you sin, and then think Oh man I didn't know I was suppose to worship god and all that stuff, simple fact being you shouldn't have been an evil person.

If you were a good person, but unknowing of god, would he let you into heaven? or send you to hell?
We wouldn't know. Its his choice, not ours. I don't need to justify god. There are 'rules' in the bible that I disagree with, but I still follow them because I BELIEVE in him. Its not a choice, I couldn't move to Islam or another religion because I know its not real.
I KNOW christianity is real.
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Steelfist

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #351 on: February 27, 2011, 06:46:35 AM »

Moral code isn't built in.

I will defend that argument to the death (And beyond, if there is an afterlife).

If somebody did not have a moral code, or had read the bible, and sinned, would they be an evil person? Of course not. As for the whole 'into heaven or hell'; I have been emphatically told by several devout christians that 'Lack of Baptism = Limbo at Best'. Nonetheless, as nobody likes the thought of unfairness, people tend to gloss over this.

Before you think of arguing with the 'lack of moral code' thing, it has been proven that brain disorders can impede the knowledge of right and wrong, and it can be undermined by upbringing. My scenario is perfectly possible.

In addition, don't you think that these people - Muslim, Hindu, etc - KNOW that their own religion is the true one?

Why don't you step back and examine religion with some objectivity? From a neutral standpoint, christianity looks completely absurd. If god is real, he's having a laugh at your expense.
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MikeW781

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #352 on: February 27, 2011, 11:19:09 AM »

I suggest you all watch the movie Dogma.
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Steelfist

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #353 on: February 27, 2011, 11:56:07 AM »

Why don't you sum it up in a spoiler? I doubt I'll watch it.
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MikeW781

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #354 on: February 27, 2011, 12:19:22 PM »

Well, its more of a very offensive movie, primarily insulting Christianity, especially Catholics....
More of a joke suggestion, but Ill find the wiki summary and put it in this post.
The wiki summary completely ignores all the offensively crude parts. I just thought the movie had a humorous, relaxed view on the topic we are so hotly debating, and was slightly relevant.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 12:27:07 PM by MikeW781 »
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #355 on: February 27, 2011, 02:31:19 PM »

Moral code isn't built in.

I will defend that argument to the death (And beyond, if there is an afterlife).

If somebody did not have a moral code, or had read the bible, and sinned, would they be an evil person? Of course not. As for the whole 'into heaven or hell'; I have been emphatically told by several devout christians that 'Lack of Baptism = Limbo at Best'. Nonetheless, as nobody likes the thought of unfairness, people tend to gloss over this.

Before you think of arguing with the 'lack of moral code' thing, it has been proven that brain disorders can impede the knowledge of right and wrong, and it can be undermined by upbringing. My scenario is perfectly possible.

In addition, don't you think that these people - Muslim, Hindu, etc - KNOW that their own religion is the true one?

Why don't you step back and examine religion with some objectivity? From a neutral standpoint, christianity looks completely absurd. If god is real, he's having a laugh at your expense.

Even if you truly did see Christianity from a neutral standpoint, how you evaluated what you saw would not be neutral. But, I'm sure that from a normal human standpoint, a lot of the things we do may seem ridiculous. I'm sure that from my standpoint, a lot of things that are important to you may seem pointless or ridiculous to me. Just because something seems ridiculous to you doesn't mean it is ridiculous.

You don't go to hell for being an evil person. You go to hell for violating and ignoring God's law. And, like I said before, ignorance of the law does not excuse you from the law. You will still get in trouble for breaking a law you don't know exists in America, and the same applies for God. You would have to be perfect to be exempt from God's punishment. We aren't perfect. I'm not quite sure about this, but I think that most people would agree that they don't always do things perfectly right. You may be morally "better" than someone else, but you still screw up, and you still break God's law. You still turn away from God and do your own thing. You still live apart from God.

You may have been told by Christians that no baptism=limbo at best. I don't have a clue where in the Bible they got the idea of limbo. There is no limbo. They may believe that baptism is required to get into heaven, but that idea is not biblical. I'm not glossing it over. Read the verses that I quoted. They're from the Bible. I'm not quite sure how to get a more direct source than that.
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Deagonx

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #356 on: February 27, 2011, 04:56:50 PM »

#1 I have been emphatically told by several devout christians that 'Lack of Baptism = Limbo at Best'. Nonetheless, as nobody likes the thought of unfairness, people tend to gloss over this.

#2 Before you think of arguing with the 'lack of moral code' thing, it has been proven that brain disorders can impede the knowledge of right and wrong, and it can be undermined by upbringing. My scenario is perfectly possible.

#3 In addition, don't you think that these people - Muslim, Hindu, etc - KNOW that their own religion is the true one?

At #1: Question being, IS IT unfairness? I don't think that is for us to decide. Many christians put their interpretations as the word of god. I have my own interpretations, though I don't force them on anyone. If someone is Muslim, so be it. I am not going to punish them for it, that is not my job.


At #2: Well, I think if the person TRULY believes that what they are doing is right, they may be let into Heaven. But once again, I don't know. No one knows, and no one can decide but God.

At #3 I bet they THINK they know. But they would be wrong.  :-[
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ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #357 on: February 27, 2011, 05:19:41 PM »

I bet you think you know. I bet everyone thinks they know, except those who are wise enough to realize that you can't possibly know for certain. Most religions have scriptures and a fanbase, and that's all a religion needs. It doesn't need to make sense, and it certainly doesn't need to be able to win out over other religions; instead, a successful religion has parents teaching children the world of their God before they see any other ides, closing them off to other possibilities.

Some kids see through this, and convert. Others simply don't believe in anything, and rely on what they can reasonably know for certainty. Others realize that no one can be sure, and God-or-not has not provided enough evidence. The latter two of the three are me, but please don't attack me or my beliefs and lack thereof at the moment.
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Deagonx

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #358 on: February 27, 2011, 06:10:46 PM »

Is it wisdom? Or a lack of true faith? I have no doubt in my mind that God is real.
Does it make sense? That is a subjective question.
The last sentence is only a bad thing, if its not christianity :D


And as stated, is it a realization? Your entire point is extremely biased, you speak as if keeping an open mind to other religion is wisdom. Its quite the opposite. It is a lack of faith. If you are entirely faithful to your religion, you aren't a fool, you aren't dumb. That just means your faithful.
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Idozen Cair

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #359 on: March 02, 2011, 06:24:45 AM »

Why do people have religion? Why do they just have to find something/one to believe?
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