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What's your religion?

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Steelfist:
Hmm. No answer about the genocide thing, I notice.

About abortions.

At the stage an abortion is legally permitted, it is not even truly alive. It's a potential for a life, no more, no less. And if a mother chooses not to accept it, that is their choice. It isn't your business, it isn't your concern and it isn't within your ability to stop.

You say you don't despise homosexuals? You believe them to be abominations, do you not. You said something of that kind when you began the gay marriage topic.

About whether or not it is god's duty to fix things.

Perhaps you are correct, though that was not the point I originally tried to make. Nontheless, many christians are passively waiting for god to do just that - fix things - instead of trying to improve the current situation.

Duskling:
Also, many, many people were killed because they didn't believe in God, adding even more to Steelfist's "genocidal maniac" point. Religion, no matter which, started many of the conflicts in history.

Various Crusades,

French Wars of Religion,

The Thirty Years' War,

and the Second Sudanese Civil War, to name a few.

cyso:
Just because someone launches a war in the name of a religion doesn't mean it is religiously justified. I don't think the word "crusade" appears in the Bible.


--- Quote from: Duckling on March 05, 2011, 12:44:29 PM ---What if a man or woman was the most atrocious person to have ever lived, but they didn't care?

What if they thought everything they did was right, and they were a Christian, and they prayed, and they worshipped, and they obeyed the commandments, and they never committed a deadly sin. What then, if they, throughout their whole life, wronged people to the greatest extent, while simply thinking themselves shrewd, or impassive, or oblivious?

What if they never defied their moral compass once, with no sin because they had no concept of good or evil, because they never had been told that the things they did were evil, wrong, atrocious; or maybe they had been told, but their faith blinded them, leading them to believe they were only working in the service of their Lord? No sin. God would have to let him or her in through the pearly gates, and everyone would know him or her, and they would recoil in fear of the awful person they knew in life whom they swore would not follow them into death. And "Heaven" would be as Hell. Fear, chaos, evil, lies would spread through the promised land above, and this merciless scourge without sin would leave hate and loathing where he went.

Now consider the opposite case. A man or woman learns of wrongs and rights, but they a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Confucianist, an aborigine with tribal beliefs. They live their life as best they can, and they go to Hell. This is why I don't like the message Christianity tries to get across, and for other reasons, too.

And punctuate your sentences correctly, will you? It's hard to read when you don't.

--- End quote ---

Okay. I'm going to quote this verse again. Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
You don't get into heaven because you don't sin. If that were the case, no one would get into heaven. Sin isn't violating your moral compass, it is violating God's law and living your life apart from him. It is ignoring God and telling him that you don't want to listen to him. As Christians, we still sin. This is a quote from some Christian (I forgot his name) as best I remember it.
The difference between a Christian and a Non-Christian is not that one has no sins and the other does, but that one takes part with a reconciled God against his sins while the other takes part with his sins against a dreaded God.
When a Christian gets to heaven, their sinful nature is completely erased so there will be no sin.


--- Quote from: Steelfist on March 02, 2011, 10:32:07 AM ---If there is a god, his actions throughout the centuries have not earned him my worship, but my enmity. If there is a god, he has allowed his holy teachings to be debased, misused and distorted. If there is a god, he is a murderer - a genocidal maniac who has committed more evil than any demon in the name of a passing fancy!

Why are we supposed to worship him merely for creating us, then proceeding to fill our lives with suffering and pain? If he is real, he is not perfect, but more flawed than any human.

--- End quote ---

You are basically asking how God can be good if there is so much evil in the world. God could have gotten rid of the evil in the very beginning by killing Adam and Eve and starting over. He wages of sin are death. But he didn't. Why? I can guess. Despite all of the terrible things that go on, God uses them to accomplish something good. In the story of Joseph in Genesis, Joseph's brothers sold him as a slave. In the end, Joseph ended up saving several people from a famine. He then says at the end, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." A good (or terrible, maybe) example of this would be the Holocaust. Despite how horrible that was, God used that to cause Israel to be reformed as a nation, like predicted in Ezekiel a lot earlier. It isn't exactly pleasant to think about it, but God can and will use terrible things to get stuff done. If he didn't, he wouldn't have anything to use at all.
The other part of the guess is that God's plan is to make the best possible ending. So, no matter how bad things are now, things will be okay in the end.
The last part of your post reminds me of a testimony I heard from someone in my youth group. Their life had been very bad. I won't go into all the details, but it included drugs, depression, and suicide attempts. I haven't said the worst of it, and I'm not going to. They are a Christian now. Their testimony is that, no matter how bad things get, God can help you still.
If our lives were always wonderful, then we wouldn't see our need for God. We would be content to live/die as we were.

bugfartboy:
Guys: You all say "How can God be good when there's so much bad in the world?" I have a story of my own for you.

Years and years ago, I was ten. Now, my being ten and all, I was absolutely terrified of spiders. So much that my parents put an electric spider repellent in my room. And so I let it be. But one day, I see a spider crawling around on my bed. I smoosh the spider and am about to take the spider repeller off the wall, when my dad walks in. Upon his asking what I'm doing, I answer: "The thing is broken... I'm gonna throw it away." But just after that my dad says to me: "Son, you've only seen one spider, right? Now how many have you seen it keep away?"

I think it has relevance. Just because you can't see something working, doesn't mean it's not. Now imagine God as the spider repeller, mankind as the kid, and evil as the spiders. Makes you think, doesn't it?

Idozen Cair:

--- Quote from: cyso on March 12, 2011, 12:01:07 PM ---Just because someone launches a war in the name of a religion doesn't mean it is religiously justified. I don't think the word "crusade" appears in the Bible.


--- Quote from: Duckling on March 05, 2011, 12:44:29 PM ---What if a man or woman was the most atrocious person to have ever lived, but they didn't care?

What if they thought everything they did was right, and they were a Christian, and they prayed, and they worshipped, and they obeyed the commandments, and they never committed a deadly sin. What then, if they, throughout their whole life, wronged people to the greatest extent, while simply thinking themselves shrewd, or impassive, or oblivious?

What if they never defied their moral compass once, with no sin because they had no concept of good or evil, because they never had been told that the things they did were evil, wrong, atrocious; or maybe they had been told, but their faith blinded them, leading them to believe they were only working in the service of their Lord? No sin. God would have to let him or her in through the pearly gates, and everyone would know him or her, and they would recoil in fear of the awful person they knew in life whom they swore would not follow them into death. And "Heaven" would be as Hell. Fear, chaos, evil, lies would spread through the promised land above, and this merciless scourge without sin would leave hate and loathing where he went.

Now consider the opposite case. A man or woman learns of wrongs and rights, but they a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Confucianist, an aborigine with tribal beliefs. They live their life as best they can, and they go to Hell. This is why I don't like the message Christianity tries to get across, and for other reasons, too.

And punctuate your sentences correctly, will you? It's hard to read when you don't.

--- End quote ---

Okay. I'm going to quote this verse again. Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
You don't get into heaven because you don't sin. If that were the case, no one would get into heaven. Sin isn't violating your moral compass, it is violating God's law and living your life apart from him. It is ignoring God and telling him that you don't want to listen to him. As Christians, we still sin. This is a quote from some Christian (I forgot his name) as best I remember it.
The difference between a Christian and a Non-Christian is not that one has no sins and the other does, but that one takes part with a reconciled God against his sins while the other takes part with his sins against a dreaded God.
When a Christian gets to heaven, their sinful nature is completely erased so there will be no sin.


--- Quote from: Steelfist on March 02, 2011, 10:32:07 AM ---If there is a god, his actions throughout the centuries have not earned him my worship, but my enmity. If there is a god, he has allowed his holy teachings to be debased, misused and distorted. If there is a god, he is a murderer - a genocidal maniac who has committed more evil than any demon in the name of a passing fancy!

Why are we supposed to worship him merely for creating us, then proceeding to fill our lives with suffering and pain? If he is real, he is not perfect, but more flawed than any human.

--- End quote ---

You are basically asking how God can be good if there is so much evil in the world. God could have gotten rid of the evil in the very beginning by killing Adam and Eve and starting over. He wages of sin are death. But he didn't. Why? I can guess. Despite all of the terrible things that go on, God uses them to accomplish something good. In the story of Joseph in Genesis, Joseph's brothers sold him as a slave. In the end, Joseph ended up saving several people from a famine. He then says at the end, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." A good (or terrible, maybe) example of this would be the Holocaust. Despite how horrible that was, God used that to cause Israel to be reformed as a nation, like predicted in Ezekiel a lot earlier. It isn't exactly pleasant to think about it, but God can and will use terrible things to get stuff done. If he didn't, he wouldn't have anything to use at all.
The other part of the guess is that God's plan is to make the best possible ending. So, no matter how bad things are now, things will be okay in the end.
The last part of your post reminds me of a testimony I heard from someone in my youth group. Their life had been very bad. I won't go into all the details, but it included drugs, depression, and suicide attempts. I haven't said the worst of it, and I'm not going to. They are a Christian now. Their testimony is that, no matter how bad things get, God can help you still.
If our lives were always wonderful, then we wouldn't see our need for God. We would be content to live/die as we were.

--- End quote ---
WHat are you guys exactly arguing about now?
@ cyso: I don't get how your theory can explain why God didn't kill Adam and Eve at first. The Joseph example is irrelevant. Why would God choose to accomplish good things out of the terrible, instead of removing the source of sin at first?
@ Buggy: The topic 'How can god be good when there's so much bad in the world?' doesn't even make sense. Why can't God be good, if there's so much evil? Why can't an apple be an apple if it's in a basket full of pears? Good example though, to prove what you want to prove (I don't know what you're trying to prove, though)

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