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Author Topic: What's your religion?  (Read 65685 times)

ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #375 on: March 19, 2011, 05:33:05 PM »

Can a Christian friend of mine repent for me and absorb my sins? I don't sin very regularly, so it shouldn't be too much of a burden.

And, about the drunk driver, that isn't comparable. The drunk driver killed someone. I merely chose to live a life of integrity, learning, and frankly not caring what some guy a couple thousand years ago said that has now worked its way into irrelevance.

People committing victimless crimes, like indecent exposure, are given a warning, and only fined on repeat offenses, when they know the full extent of the particular law which forbids them.
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bugfartboy

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #376 on: March 19, 2011, 06:50:01 PM »

It doesn't work that way. Death is the only way to get forgiveness. And the reason it's not needed today is because the perfect sacrifice died about 2000 years ago. But sins aren't transferrable that way.
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #377 on: March 19, 2011, 07:01:14 PM »

Your Christian friend can't pay for his own sin, let alone yours.
God's standards of judging a lot different from your own. You might live a life of integrity by your standards (or my standards) but your good works don't cover up your bad. You still sinned and broke the law, so you have to pay for it. Before you even say that your sins are minor and God shouldn't punish you for it, I'm going to remind you that when you sin, you turn your back to God and live your own way without caring what he thinks, regardless of what you do. You said yourself that you don't care about God. Why should he let you into heaven and spend eternity with him if you don't care about him?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 07:57:42 PM by cyso »
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...For I am his, and he is mine, bought by the precious blood of Christ.

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ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #378 on: March 19, 2011, 07:57:24 PM »

Oh, I don't think he should praise me. But, you know, him being a being of infinite compassion and all that, don't you think that it's a little much to eternally roast someone just because they don't care about you?

That's very strange, if you ask me.
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #379 on: March 19, 2011, 09:11:42 PM »

When you sin against God, you commit treason against God. The punishment for treason is death. So, you get eternal death. You ask to be separate from God. You turn your back on him and want to live apart from him, so he grants you your wish. Being created by God, living apart from him is the same as living in hell. When you sin, you are asking to be separate from God.

There are only two options, life or death. Heaven or hell.

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...For I am his, and he is mine, bought by the precious blood of Christ.

Anyone want to find the rest of the words?

bugfartboy

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #380 on: March 19, 2011, 09:21:09 PM »

And before you say it, Ducky, there is no purgatory. I have not once seen anything in the bible to even suggest a middle ground.
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ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #381 on: March 19, 2011, 09:54:56 PM »

Being created by God, living apart from him is the same as living in hell.

I don't understand you. Are you saying that, having been created by God (which I wasn't -- I was the result of completely human conception, which God had no part in), I can no more live apart from him than can I live in Hell?

You're being very cryptic. Are you suggesting that living apart from him is impossible, and that we can only shun Him? That would make sense, but still...

Buggy, why would I suggest purgatory? I'm protesting the case of the fairly innocent athist, and I wouldn't want anyone to go to a Hell where fiery pitchforks went through the space that people's souls occupies, and where the kinetic energy of the environment is so great, that, were souls to have any organic and physical form, they might ignite. No way. Sounds atrocious. I mean, the scenery's nice, the people there are clever and inventive, there's no harp music... I wouldn't wish that on anyone...

Cyso, Buggy, has it ever occurred to you that the best thing you could do for an atheist would be to put them in Hell? They'd love it. Or are you so fixated on dreams of eternal.... something... that you fail to see the perks?

Excuse me if I'm not making sense right now. It's 1 in the morning in my time zone.
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #382 on: March 20, 2011, 12:40:55 PM »

Quote
I don't understand you. Are you saying that, having been created by God (which I wasn't -- I was the result of completely human conception, which God had no part in), I can no more live apart from him than can I live in Hell?
Your body was birthed through human conception, which is a concept God created. There is no life apart from God. To live apart from or separate from God is the same as living in hell, which is the second death.

Quote
Cyso, Buggy, has it ever occurred to you that the best thing you could do for an atheist would be to put them in Hell? They'd love it. Or are you so fixated on dreams of eternal.... something... that you fail to see the perks?
I don't think you understand exactly what you're asking for. Have you read any descriptions of hell? It's described as a place of misery, sorrows, torment, and weeping. It is described as everlasting destruction. It's like spending eternity dying.
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...For I am his, and he is mine, bought by the precious blood of Christ.

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bugfartboy

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #383 on: March 20, 2011, 12:49:41 PM »

And not gently, quickly, or just going to sleep. A long never ending death.
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ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #384 on: March 20, 2011, 01:00:14 PM »

There is life. There is dying. There is death. Do you mean eternal dying? Death is eternal.
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #385 on: March 20, 2011, 01:08:38 PM »

Biological death, or the first death, is not eternal in a sense. Your dead body stays dead, but your soul isn't. Hell is the second death, the death that effects your soul/spirit, where you "live" apart from God in misery. Note that in the bible, spiritual death is the same as being apart from God.
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...For I am his, and he is mine, bought by the precious blood of Christ.

Anyone want to find the rest of the words?

ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #386 on: March 20, 2011, 02:51:04 PM »

The biological death is eternal biologically.

What makes the second death a death? It seems that while death is an ending, Hell is just a beginning.
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #387 on: March 20, 2011, 05:31:18 PM »

I never disagreed with the first point, I was just saying that your spirit goes on.

It is spiritual death in the sense that you are separate from God and completely unable to help yourself. We are described as spiritually dead before we become Christians because our sins separate us from God. Being spiritually dead, we couldn't save or help ourselves, we couldn't become right with God, we were dead. We couldn't "do" anything spiritually. When Jesus died he gave us the power to believe and come alive. The second death is death in the sense that you are spiritually dead and with no hope of coming alive. It is condemnation to be dead forever. If you are spiritually dead but still physically alive, you may still come alive, but in the second death, that hope is dead. Hell is the end of hope to come alive. It is torment because you are separate from God, your creator, with no hope of being reconciled. It is judgment, because your sins/treason have not been atoned, so you are cast out.
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...For I am his, and he is mine, bought by the precious blood of Christ.

Anyone want to find the rest of the words?

ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #388 on: March 20, 2011, 07:07:46 PM »

Ah. I get it, somewhat. You're saying that Hell is like the embodyment of the torment and suffering that is a result of not being close to God, and is the result upon your soul, because even while you're alive, if you don't believe in God, your soul is suffering like it's in Hell, but when you become biologically dead, all that is left is your tormented soul?

If so, that's something about Christianity I never really got. I thought it was punishment, but it looks now more like a reflection of the spiritual anguish one faces as a result of separating yourself from God.
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #389 on: March 20, 2011, 09:47:42 PM »

Ah. I get it, somewhat. You're saying that Hell is like the embodyment of the torment and suffering that is a result of not being close to God, and is the result upon your soul, because even while you're alive, if you don't believe in God, your soul is suffering like it's in Hell, but when you become biologically dead, all that is left is your tormented soul?
Yes, but, your soul, when you are alive, still has hope of being saved. In Hell, it is worst because your soul has no hope. It is empty except for regret. So a living person's soul now isn't suffering as much because you can still try and fill it (I say try because you can try to fill it with anything, though it won't actually fill it). In Hell, your soul is empty, and there is nothing you can do to fill it.

If so, that's something about Christianity I never really got. I thought it was punishment, but it looks now more like a reflection of the spiritual anguish one faces as a result of separating yourself from God.
That is the punishment.
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...For I am his, and he is mine, bought by the precious blood of Christ.

Anyone want to find the rest of the words?
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