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Author Topic: What's your religion?  (Read 64397 times)

ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #330 on: February 20, 2011, 02:19:53 PM »

I may have to report this. I may have said some things which I regret having said, but never anything like this.

I don't hate God; I don't think He's real. I don't know God; He hasn't made himself known to me. If God is flawless, why is he so arrogant as to assume the need to be glorified? My thinking is not futile; I try to discover the secrets of mathematics with my thinking. My heart has no quality of foolishness -- my brain would be doing that, but I see more foolishness in those who believe. I could not exchange the glory of God for anything; I never had it. Sexually impure? I think not. Images of birds and reptiles? Don't hate on National Geographic. I would say that created things are in my service, and the day on which this is reversed is the day humanity has stopped. Did I mention that I'm not gay? As for shameful lusts, I'd prefer not to talk about it -- that would be my life, not yours. Don't presume to attach that label to anyone. Only a god could possibly know the inner thoughts of a man or woman. Wickedness? I never cackle, nor beat nor bruise nor break bones, nor punish anyone so brutally with words as you have me. I am not evil; I am good. I am not greedy; I seek gain. I am not depraved; my morals are neither corrupted nor degraded. My morals are my business alone, and they are whole. What is to envy? What do others have that I cannot?

Murder? Strife? Deceit? Malice? None is so malicious, deceitful, so strife-ridden, so murderous as one who would call others as such and have more believe it. That decieves, that maligns, that murders the honesty of a man or woman so thoroughly, so completely that he or she must earn it back with brow-sweat a thousand-fold greater than that which was expended to cause such strife. Hypocrisy knows no bounds when one calls another falsely a slanderer. I may be insolent, but only when I am within my rights to presume, when the one whom I insole has not shown respect to earn mine. I am not arrogant; I am considerate, not only to those that consider me. There are few who are less boastful than me; this is not a boast, but a statement of utmost sincerity. If you think what I do is evil -- the spreading of knowledge -- then I do invent new ways. I have only disobeyed my progenitors when their cause seems silly; only when they insist upon wearing dress socks do I protest. I understand in ways those of faith may shut out their minds from, and I do not hope to understand or fathom the depths of faith. I am not oath-breaker, no slacker; I have fidelity. I love my parents, my friends, mi novia. I have mercy; I have no pity. A man or woman with a life well spent deserves rest as a well-spent day deserves a night's sleep. I appove not of the wicked, the ignorant, the dark-hearted, the greedy, the evil, the merciless, the pitiful, the depraved, the murderous, the deceitful, the malicious, the slandering, the arrogant, or the boastful -- the others I take issue not with -- only when they claim to be what they are not, who they are not, where they are not, why they are not, do I take issue with them. These are not me.

No further comment.
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bugfartboy

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #331 on: February 20, 2011, 05:08:48 PM »

Alright. I'll admit that some of that didn't describe you and I had no intention of causing harm. I was really referring to just a few sentences in the first and last paragraph. Sorry.
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MikeW781

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #332 on: February 20, 2011, 05:31:02 PM »

Ducky! This morning during bible study if found a group of scripture that describes you almost to the letter!!!

Quote from: Romans 1:18-32
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

This passage makes me about a thousand times less likely to ever be able to accept the Bible. Its ridiculous. Any being who punishes people this severely just for not believing in, and worshiping, him, is not deserving of worship.
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bugfartboy

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #333 on: February 20, 2011, 05:32:17 PM »

It's not just that. Read into it a bit.
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Duskling

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #334 on: February 20, 2011, 07:21:42 PM »

Ducky! This morning during bible study if found a group of scripture that describes you almost to the letter!!!

Quote from: Romans 1:18-32
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

This passage makes me about a thousand times less likely to ever be able to accept the Bible. Its ridiculous. Any being who punishes people this severely just for not believing in, and worshiping, him, is not deserving of worship.
Not only is that being not deserving of worship, but it is also surely not perfect.
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ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #335 on: February 20, 2011, 08:47:44 PM »

If you only meant a few clauses at the beginnning and end, please just quote those ones. Sacrificing continuity is of less consequence than sacrificing your honesty and people's trust in you.
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #336 on: February 21, 2011, 10:39:22 AM »

This passage makes me about a thousand times less likely to ever be able to accept the Bible. Its ridiculous. Any being who punishes people this severely just for not believing in, and worshiping, him, is not deserving of worship.
I don't think you understand God. He created everything. He is the king over everything he created. Just like a potter would have dominion over what he makes, God has dominion over what he made. When we turn our backs to him and worship other things, we are committing treason. When he sin, we are telling him that we want to do things our own way. So his punishment is to let us do things our own way, like it says in Romans 1:28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.
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...For I am his, and he is mine, bought by the precious blood of Christ.

Anyone want to find the rest of the words?

ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #337 on: February 21, 2011, 02:30:20 PM »

Well, I don't worship other things! I should be fine.

Anyway, he should know better than to expect complete and total obeisance from sentient beings with rational thought. Shame on Him!
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #338 on: February 21, 2011, 03:33:12 PM »

By worship, I don't mean, bow down in front of an idol and offer sacrifices. It's putting anything in your heart that takes the place of God.
And, about obedience.
He asks for obedience (which is fair, since, after all, he did create us, and he does have dominion over us), but he doesn't expect it.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
He's not holding any delusions that we are going to be perfect. That's why he sent Jesus to pay for our sins. So, if we accept Jesus's payment, we are paid for, and he doesn't see our sins on us. In his eyes, we are perfect when Jesus takes our sins.
And, in the beginning, all that was required to be totally obedient was to not eat fruit from one tree.
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...For I am his, and he is mine, bought by the precious blood of Christ.

Anyone want to find the rest of the words?

ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #339 on: February 21, 2011, 08:28:37 PM »

Ah. According to Christianity, a father or mother has a right to expect obeisance from their son or daughter, right?

Can one sin if one doesn't know what sin is?
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cyso

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #340 on: February 21, 2011, 09:06:50 PM »

I think you can sin without fully realizing what you are doing. For example, when Jesus was dying, he said "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they are doing."  They might have known they were killing an innocent man, but they certainly didn't realize they were killing the son of God. But, Jesus still asked God to forgive them. So, yes, you are still held accountable for what you do. In America, ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. The same goes for God. Just because you don't know you are breaking the law doesn't mean that you haven't broken the law.
A son or daughter is supposed to respect and obey a father or mother. Whether or not the father or mother actually expects the son or daughter to respect and obey them is up to the father or mother.
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...For I am his, and he is mine, bought by the precious blood of Christ.

Anyone want to find the rest of the words?

Duskling

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #341 on: February 21, 2011, 09:40:40 PM »

I think you can sin without fully realizing what you are doing. For example, when Jesus was dying, he said "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they are doing."  They might have known they were killing an innocent man, but they certainly didn't realize they were killing the son of God. But, Jesus still asked God to forgive them.
So then, thinking something is yours because it looks identical to it and taking it is a sin? Killing is a crime and morally wrong altogether, don't get me wrong, but what if a kid sees a lollipop on a counter and just takes it because it looks like nobody wants it? Would that child be a sinner? Would he/she go to Hell because of a mistake?
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ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #342 on: February 21, 2011, 10:39:22 PM »

Bug, there must be a point in human development at which we are not capable of sinning, right?
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bugfartboy

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #343 on: February 21, 2011, 10:42:19 PM »

Alright. Since you addressed me directly, I will respond just this once. It is believed that there is an "Age of Accountability". This age is different for everyone based on how early they learn and comprehend sin from not sin. If you are beneath your special age of accountability, it's thought that you won't be held accountable for that sin in the mind of God.
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ArtDrake

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Re: What's your religion?
« Reply #344 on: February 21, 2011, 11:39:30 PM »

So, in essence, each person must eateth from their own tree of knowledge of Good and Evil before they can sin, the difference being that on Earth, learning about sin isn't a sin, but all subsequent sins are.

Just so you know, I'm not really going anywhere destructive to the Chirstian faith with this. Just checking, is all.
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