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Author Topic: The Idea of Existence  (Read 14012 times)

Deagonx

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The Idea of Existence
« on: June 17, 2011, 10:12:04 AM »

Many atheists I have encountered shrug off religion as being illogical. As if God must have come from somewhere. He cannot just be there.


What befuddles me about that, is the idea of existence. I am not well versed in the big bang theory. But as far as my understanding goes a condensed particle exploded or something along those lines?


Where did that particle come from?


Atheists use 'Logic' to defute religion. But the entire prospect of existence is illogical. For it can have no logical beginning.


Your thoughts?
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MikeW781

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 10:21:46 AM »

To me, nobody can explain where everything came from to a degree that satisfies me. To religion, this is all part of the mystery of God and faith.To science, this is because we don't know yet. Personally, I prefer lack of knowledge to be viewed as temporary and caused by our lack of knowledge of the world around us rather than a permanent state that we should accept never understanding.
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Deagonx

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 03:03:54 PM »

Throughout history man has made countless efforts to give explanation to their being.


Atheists do so by using logic. Claiming that the existence of a higher being is illogical.


Theists do so by using an illogical explanation. Stating that 'logic' is a creation of man. And existence is beyond our understanding.



Existence has no logical explanation. The beginning, and the end of existence are illogical. It simply IS.
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Duskling

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 03:21:09 PM »

Throughout history man has made countless efforts to give explanation to their being.


Atheists do so by using logic. Claiming that the existence of a higher being is illogical.


Theists do so by using an illogical explanation. Stating that 'logic' is a creation of man. And existence is beyond our understanding.



Existence has no logical explanation. The beginning, and the end of existence are illogical. It simply IS.
In my honest opinion, the Big Bang theory is something that may be proven, no matter how many countless years in the future, while the existence of God is something that you'd have to bring someone back from the dead to prove... but then that would disprove God at the same time, as you cannot bring a soul back from Heaven or Hell by any practical means, I believe (Correct me if I'm wrong).

Now, GCK, I respect your religion, and I have no problem with you being a theist, and, from the looks of it, you are starting to tolerate the atheists around here (As in accepting our place here), and you're right, existence is something that cannot be explained, at least, not by science at the moment, but cannot be proven by science nor theism of any sort, as you would have to have contact with God or Allah or whoever else is your god, and I don't think there is anyone out there, probably the closest thing to it being the Pope, and I think that, according to Catholicism, God speaks through his actions, not through him directly.
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SmartyPants

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 06:20:56 PM »

Maybe the world we see isn't the real world.  Maybe the reality that human's perceive is actually a simulated reality created by sentient machines to pacify and subdue the human population, while their bodies' heat and electrical activity are used as an energy source.


You guys talk more about (in my opinion) trivial religious differences, then actual, important world and political issues.  In the Arab world, there are democracies being born and wars being fought, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  Greece's debt problem could bring down the collect economy of the EU, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  The Republican presidential candidates debate about how much influence the government should have in the economy and daily life, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  Iran is attempting to build nuclear weapons, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  China is building up their military forces, while using hackers to espionage the west, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".

Duskling

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2011, 06:47:05 PM »

Maybe the world we see isn't the real world.  Maybe the reality that human's perceive is actually a simulated reality created by sentient machines to pacify and subdue the human population, while their bodies' heat and electrical activity are used as an energy source.
I see what you did there.

You guys talk more about (in my opinion) trivial religious differences, then actual, important world and political issues.  In the Arab world, there are democracies being born and wars being fought, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  Greece's debt problem could bring down the collect economy of the EU, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  The Republican presidential candidates debate about how much influence the government should have in the economy and daily life, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  Iran is attempting to build nuclear weapons, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  China is building up their military forces, while using hackers to espionage the west, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".
And you care what we want to talk about because...? If you don't like what we discuss, don't participate in the discussion, and if you want us to talk about China or Iran, start a topic about that yourself.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 06:51:06 PM by Duskling »
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MikeW781

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2011, 07:49:27 PM »

Maybe the world we see isn't the real world.  Maybe the reality that human's perceive is actually a simulated reality created by sentient machines to pacify and subdue the human population, while their bodies' heat and electrical activity are used as an energy source.
I see what you did there.
Love it
You guys talk more about (in my opinion) trivial religious differences, then actual, important world and political issues.  In the Arab world, there are democracies being born and wars being fought, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  Greece's debt problem could bring down the collect economy of the EU, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  The Republican presidential candidates debate about how much influence the government should have in the economy and daily life, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  Iran is attempting to build nuclear weapons, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  China is building up their military forces, while using hackers to espionage the west, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".
And you care what we want to talk about because...? If you don't like what we discuss, don't participate in the discussion, and if you want us to talk about China or Iran, start a topic about that yourself.
I agree, talking about things like this shouldn't be looked down upon just because there are more corporeal problems about. Besides, its not like we're doing this instead of helping out with these issues, for most of us there is absolutely nothing short of a few donations that we can do
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Deagonx

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 07:57:58 PM »

You guys talk more about (in my opinion) trivial religious differences, then actual, important world and political issues.  In the Arab world, there are democracies being born and wars being fought, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  Greece's debt problem could bring down the collect economy of the EU, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  The Republican presidential candidates debate about how much influence the government should have in the economy and daily life, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  Iran is attempting to build nuclear weapons, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".  China is building up their military forces, while using hackers to espionage the west, but you guys want to talk about "The Idea of Existence".
"
He who asks a question may be a fool for five minutes. But he who never asks a question remains a fool forever."

Tom J. Connelly

What is it exactly you intend to happen if we were to discuss real world events? There is literally nothing in my power that I can do to change such things. I think we can all agree that the Nuclear Weapons in Iran is a bad thing. Same with the hackers China is using to "espionage" the west.


Why would we talk about such things? Not only is it a pointless conversation that subdues no closure to one another. I simply don't care. It is beyond my reach to do literally ANYTHING about. So why talk about it?

I've never been one to mourn, mind you. When my grandmother passed away I did little of it. I did not cry at the funeral.
There is no use crying over spilled milk. Even less use trying to stop a falling glass of milk that is over 100 miles away.
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Duskling

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 10:26:07 AM »

I've never been one to mourn, mind you. When my grandmother passed away I did little of it. I did not cry at the funeral.
There is no use crying over spilled milk. Even less use trying to stop a falling glass of milk that is over 100 miles away.
I don't think you quite get the idea of that expression...

*Back on topic*
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Xemadus Echina

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 12:38:28 AM »

You should check out the "spirit science" serise on youtube.  It's spiritual stuff, but portrayed logically and scientifically (mostly, a bit about crop circles in one of the later episodes sort of disappointed me.)
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SmartyPants

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 02:17:04 PM »

I've never been one to mourn, mind you. When my grandmother passed away I did little of it. I did not cry at the funeral.
There is no use crying over spilled milk. Even less use trying to stop a falling glass of milk that is over 100 miles away.
Many of the issues in the world are caused by a lack of empathy such as yours.

MikeW781

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 04:40:59 PM »

I've never been one to mourn, mind you. When my grandmother passed away I did little of it. I did not cry at the funeral.
There is no use crying over spilled milk. Even less use trying to stop a falling glass of milk that is over 100 miles away.
Many of the issues in the world are caused by a lack of empathy such as yours.
I agree here. I don't cry much, and think its best to be less emotional, but only to a degree. A loved one dying is worth a few tears.
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ArtDrake

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2011, 08:47:20 PM »

Which is why I might or might not have to cry were a certain person named whoops! can't tell the cat to die.

Love interests aside, the spread of the universe as is evidenced by disproportionate amounts of subtle redshifting does indeed imply the reverse as one goes back in time; contraction of the universe, suggesting a single origin point. What went down there must have been some literally hot stuff, and I'm cool with God being involved before that point, but that fiery inferno must have obliterated Him unless he happens to be made of superstring material that does not interact with normal matter and particles of the Standard Theory... I digress. My point is but that God probably isn't around any more, or He only has observer status. He certainly isn't the one some Jewish heretics came up with when they split from the latke-making, krav-maga-fighting, hora-chair-riding mothership and made up Christianity, and He certainly didn't create me.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 02:01:33 AM by Duckling' »
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Xemadus Echina

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2011, 04:14:39 PM »

what if stargate is right?
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im writing a book!
http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=236.0;topicseen
heres a free verse poem I wrote for school
You never know
Just what you will find after you
Lost your favorite thing. But
The important thing is that the
Game you play will help you to get by.

Deagonx

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Re: The Idea of Existence
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2011, 03:55:29 AM »

Duckling, I think you just said the big bang killed god?


But, I have recieved very few replies that actually reply to me.


Im2smart4u responded by saying we should be discussing something more important.
Rained suggested a bad TV show is right, but thats besides the point.



Existence can have no agreeable beginning, or end. It simply doesn't make sense because the only way for existence to.. exist is for it to have always been there. Is that no less logical than the idea of a higher being?
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