The Sinister Design Forums

During initial development, Energy Golems were one of 24 classes in Telepath Tactics multiplayer.  However, the energy golem class was removed because its unlimitted range make the unit overpowered compared to other classes.

This may come to the disappointment of many fans, because a previous poll (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=654.0) suggests that energy golems are overwhelming people's favorite type of golem. With the addition of the campaign, there is an opportunity to see the return of the energy golem to the series.  While balancing units is essential to multiplayer, it is not very important for a campaign setting.  Due to the increase in map size, energy golems will be a new, difficult challenge to players.  Also, it will be wierd for the Dundar Archipelago to have stone golems and bronze golems, yet not having any energy golems.

Perhaps they could be added with limited range (maybe 10-15?).

I think the fog of war might also limit an energy golem's ability to attack the enemy.  If energy golems have limited perception like the other golems, then energy golems will only be able to target three spaces away without the help of other units.  Not only can the player avoid energy golem's laser blast by staying out of its perpendicular targetting range, but they can also prevent the energy golems from targetting the player's units by killing off enemy scouts.

Burst Shot + Melee and ignoring Laser Blast would also work.

I suppose that we're talking about immovable Energy Golems (and not moving units like Dorgon).

I like the idea of limiting the range of the Laser Blast.
Burst Shot is also a good idea to have.
Perhaps adding a diagonal attack, with half? the range of Laser Blast as another possible attack is also a nice idea.

A harder solution to limit the range of the Laser Blast, that would make things tactically interesting would be to have some objects that could block the laser (bonus points if other objects can deflect it).

Both the immovable energy golem and Dorgon (http://telepath.wikia.com/wiki/Dorgon)-like energy golem will have the same attacks and the same sprites, so I don't see why we can't see both types of energy golems. The main difference will be that one type will have heavier armor, while the other type will have increased mobility.

Quote from: Telepath Tactics ManualVariable range
• Certain ranged attacks can hit at multiple ranges.
• As a rule, all attacks get a 15% damage penalty for every space beyond the minimum range they are targeted.
♦ For example : a Bowman can normally target 2, 3, or 4 spaces away using the Bow attack, which deals 10 damage by default. 2 spaces is the minimum range for Bow: thus, at 2 spaces, Bow gets no damage penalty, and deals 10 base damage. However if Bow is centered 3 spaces away, the attack gets a 15% penalty, and deals only 8 base damage; at 4 spaces, Bow gets a 30% damage penalty, and deals only 7 base damage. (If Bow can reach 5 spaces away, as with a Bowman positioned in the high ground, it gets a 45% damage penalty there.)

Maybe the variable range effect can limit the lethality of long range laser attacks.  Long range attacks will do miniscule damage compared to being hit by a laser blast at point-blank range.

Arrows and lasers do not loose much energy (i. e. damaging potential) with distance.
So, I'm assuming that the 15% penalty is due to the difficulty to target correctly at larger distances, thus making harder for the attacker to hit the more sensible spots of his enemy.

I rather focus on the gameplay elements that would make the game fun, and then go back and try to find a logical explanation.

I feel like a 15% would be too large of a penalty for an Energy Golem attack, because the high penalty would make the laser blast fizzle out in 6 spaces.  Maybe 5% would be better.

I was just making up a logical explanation for the 15% penalty.

Quote from: Ertxiem on January 30, 2013, 05:24:14 PMWith the TT Dialogue Editor, together with the Map Editor, it seems to me that Craig's cunning plan is to make it easy for a devoted fan to recreate TRPG2 in TT! :)

There are certain elements in TRPG2 will not be seen in TT, yet many of these issues can be solved with some ingenuity. However, I don't see how one can recreate TRPG2 without Energy Golems when 3/4 of TRPG2's plot is made up of the Hero seeking the destruction of the Energy Golem Workshop.

I see what you're doing! And I support it! :)

The popularity of the Energy Golem class came as rather a shock to me.  In fact, I'm the only one so far that has voted "Yes", while everyone else has voted "Definitely".  The only polls that showed nearly as much popularity as the TT Energy Golem were the TSoG Wish List polls for Light Spriggats (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=62.0) and Orange Shadowlings (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=1041.0).

Edit:After I posted how this poll had good results, Duckling decided to be a Scrooge McDuckling (http://www.picgifs.com/disney-graphics/disney-graphics/scrooge-mcduck/disney-graphics-scrooge-mcduck-450738.gif) and vote "No" on every Telepath Tactics poll.  Because Duckling opposes the idea for being "New" instead of opposing the merit of the idea, I choose to see his vote as an outlier.

Quote from: Duckling on February 20, 2013, 01:04:30 AM

Quote from: SmartyPants on January 13, 2013, 09:11:17 PM...energy golem class was removed because its unlimitted [sic] range make the unit overpowered compared to other classes.

... disappointment of many fans... previous poll (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=654.0) suggests that energy golems are overwhelming people's favorite type of golem... opportunity to see the return of the energy golem... will be wierd [sic] for the Dundar Archipelago to have stone golems and bronze golems, yet not having [sic] any energy golems.

Saying it would be a serious fan letdown and "wierd" not to have energy golems as a unit type seems to me to be an insistence that you would indeed like for the decision not to include the unit to be reconsidered.

I find it odd that you rather talk about my motivation for creating the topic instead of the merit of the idea.  While I prefered the Bronze Golem, I noticed in a earlier poll (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=654.0) that the majority of other fans choose the Energy Golem as their favorite.  I created this topic to see if people would be disappointed that their favorite golem will be missing in the latest game, and the results seem to show that they would be.

Can you disagree that it would be wierd that the energy golem is the only type of golem to not make it to the islands?  Like with the Light Spriggats, storytelling will have to solve these inconsistentes when it come to adding and omitting certain classes.

I couldn't possibly respond to the first part of your message.

However, I truly don't think that it's strange that the energy golem didn't make it to the islands -- as far as the ultimate scale of history goes, the energy golem is pretty new, while the other golems, I would guess, have been around for significantly longer. I'm actually not sure, maybe you could inform me of some knowledge that you possess that I lack in this matter: do we have a timeline for when the events in TT are taking place with respect to the events in the first three games?

If we don't, the game very well could be taking place in the time between the arrival of bronze and stone golem tech to the islands and the arrival of energy golem tech. I would further say that it's not an inconsistency, but a blind spot; we simply don't know enough lore to say that the omission or addition of certain classes has made the lore self-contradict.

Based on the Vibra Mining Company's need for vibra crystals from the Dundar Archipelago, it seems that the events of Telepath Tactics will take place after the Shadow War.  The Shadowling Empire's economy is based around warfare and slavery, so it unlikely that the Shadowland mining companys would be trading with a far away human nation.  Also, the Mechanics (Shadowling Empire's enemy) are the Vibra Mining Company's biggest customer, so the demand for vibra wasn't high enough for the shadowlings to need to gather vibra overseas until after the Shadow War.

Thank you! That was in-depth and informative, and the time you spent to write that is appreciated.

So we know it's after the Shadow War -- is it a possibility that Energy Golem tech hasn't reached the Dundar Archipelago yet, despite the months or even years that have passed? I'm inclined to think that it would make more sense if it were months, and less if it were years.

Truly, if we get more information in the campaign that tells us more precisely the time, that could confirm or refute the possibility of self-contradiction in the lore. However, I'm going to remain with my null hypothesis of non-contradiction until such time as more light can be shed on the matter.

Quote from: Kickstarter Update #3: Character classes and promotionsExtra character classes with animated sprites is exactly what it sounds like. There are loads of possibilities: axe-wielding bandits, more types of golems, lizardmen with bows, shadowling guardians, and so on.

Due to a Kickstarter success (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1426761469/telepath-tactics-a-strategy-rpg/posts/432817#comments), it looks like it is possible that we will see "more types of golems" such as the Energy Golem.

Quote from: C:\Program Files (x86)\Telepath Tactics\Data\Campaigns\Kovit\Attacks.xml<Atk elem="Light" name="Laser Blast" d="0" cst="9" minRng="1" maxRng="1" shkMag="0" shkTim="0" strD="0" powD="1" defD="0" backstabFactor="1.5" sidestabFactor="1" selfHealFactor="0" selfFocusFactor="0" accMod="0" statFX="None" affects="Health" afterAtk="EndTurn" AOE="single" particles="Sparks" targeting="constrained" moveType="Normal" knockback="0" creates="" createdOnTeam="" dependsUpon="" desc="Hits numerous targets in a row."></Atk>

Telepath Tactics already has the Energy Golem's signature attack in the game's programing.  This is a good sign for those hoping to see an energy golem in the future, because it appears that Sinister Designs is already laying down the groundwork for introducing the third type of golem.  The only cause of concern is that the Laser Blast only has the range of a melee attack.



The capabilities of an energy golem would greatly be reduced it had to recharge energy in order to fire again, so I do like that the idea of Laser Blast costing a lot of energy in order to attempt to stop it from being a game breaker. 

Ah, yes. That was an early attempt from back before I realized that I'd likely have to code a custom solution for its attack to work well. It's still not a priority, but I might get around to it eventually.

If any of you played Shining Force, there is a battle where an enemy controls a laser eye. The laser eye has very long range and shoots about once per 5 turns. Maybe you can make this Energy Golem appear as a captive just to make an appearance. Seems like it's very overpowered but it'd be nice to see it in the game, even if you don't get to use it. New here but love Telepath Tactics and want to play more than just the demo. T_T

I'd be lying if I said the Energy Golems weren't inspired at least in part by Shining Force's laser eye. :)