The Sinister Design Forums

Normally, I would kill Grotius a thousand times over if given the chance. Why? Because I think I am racist and have been listening to shadowlings talk about them to much. Plus, i enjoy killing Cerzak and Grotius doesn't learn 'helpful' moves, when you want the frost res. by the time you get it you are already past the frost spriggats.

Incidentally, do Cerzak and Grotius survive, canonically?
Technically, having no memory of before and living with Shadowlings for all his/her (remembered) life, the Main would probably be quite biased against spriggats, but then again his personality depends on the player.  I personally leave both of them alive.

Hmm, could you explain, in your opinion, why you would leave them alive?

Mostly because they're slaves, just like I am.  They're not trying to kill us because they want to, they're doing it because it's their only choice at surviving.  Granted, if he had been accidentally killed in the battle, I'd be fine with that.  Grotius has even fewer reasons to be killed, not only does the whole Shadowling slave thing apply, he also fought with us.

well i can see why you think that, but since you were living with the shadowlings, it's always been their dream of finding and killing cerzak. For Grotius, when he said i won't let you kill him, it was basically saying, "Over my dead body!" so that means he was asking to be killed with him in my opinion. besides, i found him an ineffective teamate so it would be more bennefit (peace of mind) to have Cerzak dead than Grotuis alive.

Yes, Grotius would rather be dead with his father then alive without his father.  In the end it really comes down to the player's personality.

Good reasoning, that's why this poll was created. Although I'm pretty sure most will say they left him alive.

I kept Cerzak alive. I didn't really care either way, and I don't use Grotius that often, but the lose in personality points was not worth the choice.

Grotius is a very useful character, I wouldn't kill him, especially because of the negative impact on your charm.

you dont hear from cerzak again either way so i choose not to kill grotius

Wait, you lose Personality if you kill Cerzak? I've never done it so I wouldn't know...

Well technically. You lose personality if you kill Grotius. I guess your team decides you aren't a very good leader if you kill off one of them in cold blood.

If you don't have Grotius on your team, you can kill Cerzak with no negative side effects.

Well, I normally kill him and I don't mind the side effects, I don't use grotius, I only use five teammates so a little personality drop doesn't do anything to me. Besides, it's easy to bring back up, just train up something on you that you normally don't  like mind sheild (normally festus does a good enough job) and i can bring it right back up for little money.

Well, as rightly said above, it boils down to the personality of the player and the "shadowling influence" can be explained for both cases- after all, one can go through the game with the Main not being significantly affected by the Shadowling customs (by the right selection of replies). Plus, there are humans on his team as well, and Grotius too, so they can give him a slightly different perepsctive on certain issues (and let's not forget that to of the Main's best friends are on the team as well, so they'll probably spend a lot of time together and influence the Main).
Personally, I keep them both alive, as not only do I use Grotius and don't need the personality dip, at that point in the game I think the Main has enough info on his hands to be a bit more cautious of what the Shadowlings tell him and what Nelis stands for in the Shadowling society (cf Anya reading local books and telling that info to the Main).

Sorry KZ, you lost me at "shadowling influence", none of that made much sense to me.

Ah yes, the infamous Long Post of KZ.
Basically, the Main can either choose certain replies and be affected by the Shadowling's customs, or s(he) can not.
The humans and Grotius may influence his perspective, especially his best friends.
KZ thinks the Main should be a bit wary about what the Shadowlings say and what Nelis stands for.

Well i prefer shadowlings over spriggats anywasy, and besides, it pleases Darkeye to kill him also. Nelis reminds me of Queen Elizabeth, I don't know how, but she does, so I don't se anything wrong with the Queen. Sure, she has a lot of wars going on but she is quite certain of winning them before she starts them, not including human interfearance (which includes the main and the psy academy).

You're taking the side of the Shadowlings, which, quite frankly, I probably wouldn't have done if I was the Main.  Slaves generally dislike their captors, so I'd be a bit biased against them and would be more willing to believe that Cerzak shouldn't be killed.

It's hardly something you enjoy, slavery, is it?

Anyway. I don't think there are any negative side effects if you don't kill Cerzak, but there are if you do (Unless you don't have Grotius on the team, at which point this becomes largely immaterial). Logic would suggest sparing his life, even if you don't use Grotius.

I like spriggats, so I always let Cerzak live. Also, Grotius is one of my favorite characters, so I always want to keep him.

Quote from: Bromtaghon on June 25, 2010, 01:28:28 AM
Ah yes, the infamous Long Post of KZ.
Basically, the Main can either choose certain replies and be affected by the Shadowling's customs, or s(he) can not.
The humans and Grotius may influence his perspective, especially his best friends.
KZ thinks the Main should be a bit wary about what the Shadowlings say and what Nelis stands for.

Aye, Bromtaghon got that right.
Not sure lentro why would the Queen association eclipse what Nelis does and stands for, and where that association comes from in the first place? Surely it's not the voice..? :P

This entire topic narrows down to which side you would choose. If you like the shadowlings, then you would probably kill grotius and the academy, if you liked the spriggats, you would spare their lives and kill nelis. I dislike the spriggats, so its natural I would prefer them dead.

But only propably. I like about shadowlings(they have strong personalities ;D ) more than spriggats(i would like to know more about them) , but i still always choose the ending where i turn against Nelis, because she is causing problems to humans and spriggats and sometimes for shadowlings too for her own good.

And about choices that Main makes: though (s)he has forgot his/her past life, her/his personality and morale might remain same: they aren´t contacted to human memory straightly. And Main remembered things from her/his past by himself/herself, so maybe shadowlings haven´t took Mains memory, maybe they just hid it from his/her conscious mind?

Sorry about bad language. :P

Methinks from an in-game point of view FlyingFinn has it right- it really boils down to how much the Main is affected by the Shadowling prejudices over the Main's own upbringing. And I'd also suspect that not all will choose the sides on the basis of who they like more (that is to say, using some completely irrelevant, like Shadowlings look cooler, criteria) - Shadowlings or Spriggats, but along the lines of what each of the 3 main races stands for and which choices prior to that the player followed - thus more from a participant, than observer standpoint.