When I first read KZ's reply to the Weaknesses thread, I must admit, I felt defeated and simply said "ok" and let it go. Reading it a second time I realize something else entirely, and it revived hope in my idea for weaknesses and other strategical additions that could be made (as KZ suggested)
The less strategic players will likely stay on normal or hard, but those seeking a serious challenge go for brutal.
So, why not, besides making the enemies tougher, make the game-play harder? A novice chess player stays with the simple, and a master player builds extremely complex strategical moves, not taking any chances, giving no quarter. Adding in more tactical elements, more strategy to really give the player something to think about. They must not only think of a few moves before the computer, but perhaps, play out the entire battle in their head?
I say, give them the ultimate challenge. Include as much crazy, wacko, in-depth strategy as we can. Maybe not even call it brutal difficulty, but a new difficulty all together, the Impossible difficulty.
This would add in many extra strategical elements, such as weaknesses, a slight, smart, randomness in the AI, and special boosts and poisons that vary stats, timers forcing you to quickly formulate your strategy, characters that get more powerful or weaker if their teammate dies.
I'm however, not suggesting this be included with the initial release of the game, but perhaps an add-on created for a premium experience or (with luck) a Game-of-the-Year edition. A side project started after the release of TSoG, slightly ran by Craig but not entirely, instead programmed by a volunteer (perhaps me if I ever get the right flash :-\ , I think I have it now, but I'm having problems with it getting to download, it keeps saying that it's all ready installed, but it's not...) Having extra additions, I do not just mean strategy but other neat things like more quests/ mini-games, powers, teammates, a special time traveling spriggat that allows you glimpses into the lore of Cera Bella giving a more in-depth history, you know smaller items that are just built off of what is all ready in the game) This could also serve as a patch repairing left over bugs that went unnoticed until the game was mainstream.
I've prattled long enough for that (I might post ideas of that after school or this weekend, unless somebody else does, but I also think it's a little to early to talk about stuff like that unless they're things that are likely not going to be included for general enjoyment, but for the elites and major fans of the game) so back onto the topic at hand:
I've all ready mentioned a few ways to increase strategy, and I'll go into detail now ^^
Weaknesses
While this is mostly covered by resistances, it is not completely covered. So far res can make a character immune to one type of attack. Weaknesses could make it so that the enemy can basically only be killed by a certain element. Imagine a boss with an attack that heals himself for a large portion of his health (say, half like feedback can)and he has a huge amount of HP all ready. So you attack him with every teammate you have only to see that at the end of your turn you barely did any percentage of damage to him. He heals with feedback and wipes out 1-3 of your partners instantly. Thinking it's impossible to defeat him, you look at his tag again and it says he has a major weakness to light, unfortunately you did not bring anybody with a light attack with you this time, and your party is wiped out. You load your save and this time make sure to bring light attacks. After the battle another ensues but before this one you find some sort of clue that cryptically tells you in what position on your roster your teammates should be, you, being lazy, ignore the clue and rush into the next battle to find you're once again in a similar situation as before, but this time your teammates are separated and you cannot attack the boss-guy with your light character. Had you been aware and inquisitive you would have gotten the hint and be able to go through the level with no problem.
Random Moves
How about different sets of AI and the computer switches between them, using a different strategy the next time you fight that battle? You may lose a battle and think you have it all figured out, the enemy was on the offensive going after your men, or they were targeted going straight after your main character, or maybe they were defensive, biding their time until reinforcements arrive and you are slaughtered. The next time around you use your first move to match what you think the enemy will do and your sit back stunned as the AI takes it's turn, trying a completely new strategy and wipes out two of your teammates. Scrambling for a new strategy, you get lucky and come up with one just in time to save your skin.
Timers
For each character's turn you are given a time limit to make a move, once the timer hits zero or your character ends their turn the normal way the next character goes. This would encourage players to think strategy on your feet, like chess. Constantly, quickly, adapting your strategy to match your enemy.
Emotional Characters
I think it would be neat if; as the character development progresses and the team fights along side each other more bonds of love, friendship, and other passions are formed. I think that when a teammate dies that another teammate feels strongly for, then the second should get a temporary effect like an "Adrenaline Rush" in which the character, for a short time, moves quicker, hit's harder, and ignores enemy blows better (temporary bonuses to Psy Strength, Strength, Psy Defense, and speed. This is counter acted as it only lasts 1-3 turns (I'm not sure how long it should last) followed by a sharp decrease in these areas as the teammate starts to fall into a depression and grieve for his or her lost friend.
For Set, the loss of any one would be tragic to him and he could get a temporary boost in his speed and healing abilities. Arman, as the most distant from the group wouldn't much care. Malis may be enraged at the death of Set (since she seems to like his round physique. Griffin enthralled if Rahel is slain with Rahel upset at the death of Griffin. Luca also would not mind the death of anybody (except the hero but I doubt we will have situations in which the hero dies and the fight continues) Since she's a ghost and the party knows she'll just reappear after a time they don't worry.
Damage Over Time
Arman, as an assassin should have the arsenal of an assassin, which should include inflicting a strong poison into his enemies then fleeing and waiting safely out of harms way as the victim falls prey. Pyro abilities could also have a DoT effect like lighting the enemy on fire doing some damage over time.. Cryo attacks could have a chance to freeze an enemy. Light and Shadow attacks could have a chance of momentarily blinding an enemy.
Of course the enemy would have access to these attacks as well, to keep it fair.
Please post your thoughts, and if you think of something else that could add to strategy that I didn't mention earlier, please post your thoughts. Also, if you disagree with how I perceive how these could be an increase in strategy, please speak your mind. Criticism is encouraged.^^
It's cool, and I would like it, except I think it would be hard to program (I'm not much of a programmer).
I still like the idea though...
Let's shake this up.
There is no reason to add weaknesses.
Mathematically speaking, all you have to do is allow multiple resistances to come into play and then lower the boss's HP, giving you the equivalent of a weakness.
An intelligent AI...imagine all the parameters Craig would have to write to create it. Not even the best games now have intelligent AI's, and I don't think an indie dev can pull it off.
Timer? I like the general idea, but the problem with using it in Telepath is that in Telepath, it is harder to move around and pick your attack, unlike Sonny or chess, where you can just think and immediately make a move.
Emotional Characters seems overblown, I personally would detest it.
DoT overcomplicates the game, and it will be very situational. For example, in a Deeper Downs Battle, having 7-10 DoT will not seem like much, but having the same unit in a map designed to be long and tedious it will be extremely powerful.
Generally, DoT will not be very useful, either, as most battles are decided in a few turns.
Your reasoning is sound. Thank you for the helpful and polite criticism, it is nice to see. ^^
Now that was just patronizing...
Not at all. I genuinely mean it. It is nice to see a polite refusal, or rebuttal, of my ideas, something that has been lacking in... another's... rather ostensible refusal of ideas.
If you were referring to me, it takes me some thinking before I make a reply.
DoT: shouldn't that be incorporated into the "main" game (the non-impossible version). After all, why should Arman or the other characters have more damaging attacks in game play that's supposed to be harder.
Random Moves: The enemy AI will react to the player. If you sit there, the enemy will attack. If you attack, the enemy will defend. If the AI chose to use a defensive strategy while you chose to use a defensive strategy, it would be rather boring, but it would give you plenty of time to analyze the enemy, thus making the game easier.
Timers: I personally wouldn't mind. I think you could also get rid of the undo button in the impossible version (since in real life, you can't undo)
Maybe impossible version could be unlocked after you beat the game on brutal.
I've always thought removing the undo button on the toughest difficulty would be a good idea.
I argee with Presentiment, removing the undo button from brutal and puttin timers on say 15 seconds per character woul easily make telepath a much harder game.
Quote from: Zackirus on March 15, 2010, 03:16:26 PM
I argee with Presentiment, removing the undo button from brutal and puttin timers on say 15 seconds per character woul easily make telepath a much harder game.
If you really want to make it harder, couldn't you just set a time limit for yourself or never press undo?
Well, sometimes people will give in to the temptation of not following their own rules. Plus, if you want to think about it that way, you could make any game mode hard by only training one level between missions.
I don't agree with the undo button. People make mistakes due to the inaccuracy of their mouse. I think a time limit is enough.
Quote from: yogc on March 15, 2010, 03:26:05 PM
Well, sometimes people will give in to the temptation of not following their own rules.
Then the difficulty isn't that important to them. Plus, one needs to learn self control.
then what's the point of having differentiating difficulties? How about a compromise? A set limit on how many times the undo button can be pressed in each battle?
You know, I honestly don't believe Craig will have time to invest into doing this extra difficulty. The AI part is quite important, so making it better might come into play for the main TSoG build. Otherwise, I have a very simple, yet effective option: if you find all the difficulties too easy, go and minimize the GUI, play on Brutal, and never maximise it. I was forced to do that once for battle with Nelis on brutal- that was evil. The difficulty goes sky-high staright away. And as im2msart4u rightly put it: not using certain buttons, timing, other self-limitations can easily be imposed by the player and can test his/her strength of character- if the player cheats, then they'll simply be punishing themsleves, and no one else.
perhaps a gold reduction based on the amount of times undo is used? or a gold reduction for how many turns the mission lasts (this would not be included on missions where survival is the only real option (i.e. arman's taunt)
Again, I think that can be a self-imposed limit: simply spend no more than X amount of gold per battle. Or keep a tally of how many times you used the undo button.
There was a user who played through TRPG2 with using only the initial 3 teammates and the Main, playing through each battle only once, and not resorting to gold farming- that was quite a well-crafted player challenge.
I'm just curious: how many of you looking for a more challenging Brutal experience play with Friendly Fire on?
I was thinking more about 'limited' brutal play. As Brutal already pushes the limits on how difficult the opening battles can be, I was thinking more on the lines of no GUI, Friendly Fire, no Undo button, no Rotate button Brutal, which would be absolutely difficult to play in.
Quote from: CraigStern on March 19, 2010, 01:08:43 AM
I'm just curious: how many of you looking for a more challenging Brutal experience play with Friendly Fire on?
The ability to farm for gold (in random battles) allows a player to grind, therefore lowering the difficulty.
Is it too hard to limit to 1 random battle? This means that, only on brutal, you can't repeat any battle. For example: you can only beat once the guards called by the beggar - the next time he would be too scared to talk to you; and you could only play cards a limited number of times (say 10 times), after that, Ali says that he lost (or took) too much money to (or from) you and he don't wish to play with you no more.
I think it should be at that way at all difficulties. Allowing grinding is good for novice players, but unlimited grinding would kill the challange. Grinding should be a way to easy up the game, not something that could replace player skills.
By the way, what is friendly fire?
When friendly fire is on, you must be more careful in order not to hit your team mates, in particular when you use area attacks.
In the lower difficulty levels, I think that the players could grind. This way, even the less skilled can have a chance to play through the entire game.
Quote from: KZYou know, I honestly don't believe Craig will have time to invest into doing this extra difficulty. The AI part is quite important, so making it better might come into play for the main TSoG build. Otherwise, I have a very simple, yet effective option: if you find all the difficulties too easy, go and minimize the GUI, play on Brutal, and never maximise it. I was forced to do that once for battle with Nelis on brutal- that was evil. The difficulty goes sky-high staright away. And as im2msart4u rightly put it: not using certain buttons, timing, other self-limitations can easily be imposed by the player and can test his/her strength of character- if the player cheats, then they'll simply be punishing themsleves, and no one else.
It is the game developer's responsibility to set restrictions, not the player. You can't just expect everyone wanting tougher play to restrict themselves. However, if the dev sets a higher difficulty, players will be alerted to its existence and feel prompted to play it.
I personally would like Weaknessess, but unlike the way Zhampir put it. eg:
Red Spriggat: Cold weakness - +5 damage
Shadowling: Light weakness - +5 Damage
I detest damage over time. Bluffs are not the way to Telepath.
Timer? NO! If you suddenly have a tightening feeling on your bladder, then you'd lose the battle NOT beacuse of bad strategy or bad playing.
Different strategy every time? Makes it too hard if you're struggling with a hard boss.
No matter what strategy the AI uses, I move based on how far they CAN go, not how far they will, so I never get hit until I move into an engagement in formation, where enemies cannot simply surround my players.
I'd like to see something more be done with character death, especially on harder difficulties. The 'emotional reaction' is a good start, but I feel it could lead to people letting characters die just for a temporary bonus. I would like to see some kind of permanent penalty associated with death. In the current game, as with TRPG2, death simply means 'woops, we'll get them back in a few minutes'. I'd like to see reductions to pay power/defense/strength as a result of death, and maybe lock up the more powerful skills for a few battles after a character dies. (They have to get used to their body again, or some other excuse)
I agree that dead may bring a(n even if small) penalty to the stats.
And (paid) training could bring everything back to normal, assuming that you're in a place where you can train...