Although I love the game, tsog doesn't seem to have a very complex skill system for the hero. I do appreciate the leveling up system, but the skill set seems to simplified. Games such as Sonny 1 & 2, and Sinjid: Shadow of the Warrior both have more complex skill trees, and I think a similar tree or a more comprehensive skill set would give players a wider range of options in developing their character. Any ideas on this?
I tend to disagree with that: a more complex system is what makes Sonny and the others rather annoying to play for me- it's much the same with little bits and bobs added on. I think that the powerful selling point of TSoG is the relative simplisity of the skill tree, as it allows the player to concentrate more on the tactics and strategy, rather than the random % hitting, much the same atatcks. Here, even those few simple attack make for very different tactics needed- if you have a Hero with Cryo Cross or Light Blast, the same map will be played on a completely different degree of aggression from the player, and different stats are more likely to be leveled up for the Hero.
Anyhow, welcome to the forums, play the games, read the rules and enjoy your stay!
It's not a terrible idea, but I've avoided it largely because this is a team tactics game. Sinjid (and to a lesser extent, Sonny) are almost exclusively focused on the main character's progression. Heck, in Sinjid, you didn't even have other characters! You just fought every battle on your own.
So maybe you should think of it this way: when you choose your teammates and decide how to train them, you're effectively doing the same thing you'd be doing with a skill tree in those other games: namely, customizing the abilities and possible moves you'll have at your disposal in combat.
Sorry, guess I should have worded myself more clearly. I kind of just listed those games as general examples. I do see you point, craig, and I for the large majority I agree with you. It just seems somewhat frustrating at times to:
a) not be able to see the skill possibilities
and b) have little customization of skill set
I think that perhaps having the skills laid out as you level up would allow for some forethought as to how to level up the characters. Also, perhaps a skill chart with cross-character dependency would also add to the interdependent tactics feel of the game. Just a thought.
I see your point there, laserpants13, I guess it usually isn't an obstacle because in TRPG2 there was a linear development of skills and in the TSoG demo most users have played through the game already at least once, so they know what to expect. Now that the main character can be customized, it seems like the first play-through is meant to be a journey of discovery for those who are playing the first time. My recommendation would be, at the point of choosing the Hero's affinity, to save the game in different slots and develop the character with each affinity, see where it takes you. Plus, if you're not one for surprised, you can go conservative and choose Heat, and have the same attacks as the Main from TRPG2. (The rest of the attacks remain the same.) Also, if the player played through TRPG2 prior to that, he or she will know the attacks for Shadow and Light as well.
Just curious, given that the "tree" branches out at only one point, would you rather have the full tree uncovered, or find out as you play along (I guess that really depends on the person's taste here)?
As for the tree being uncovered or not, I suppose uncovered in full would help a bit, but as you said, that's anyone's preference. I was also thinking that perhaps the tree could branch at more than one point, but I do see your point(s) about the tactics emphasis. I was also thinking that perhaps a cross-character dependent skill tree would be an interesting twist. That is, character x would be unable to learn a certain skill until character y learned a certain skill. If laid out right, this could add a really interesting aspect to the strategy of training up characters.
Really, I think that if the tree uncovered or not is user preference, why not just put it in the begining options?
I'm just curious: the way things are currently coded in-game, you'll learn the most powerful new skill you're able to learn any time you click New Skill rather than progressing from least to most powerful. Do you like it that way, or would you rather see it done in order?
I'd rather to be able to choose from a list of skills that are availible.
I agree, 'cause sometimes I want to skip a skill (e.g. elemental shield when going for feedback early in the game), and having a list of abilities which the Hero can learn given his current level would allow for greater versatility. The practical side is also important: if the players don't have much gold in the beginning of the game, then they'll have to be highly selective of the abilities they pick up (e.g. for Set, one might skip all attacks and go for Big Shield, thus saving around 1000 gold).
On the other hand, this isn't something that siginificantly affects the game-play experience, it's more percieved as more of a given, a set of challenges to overcome with skills uncovered in particular order.
I think the mind shields, however, should come in some sort of unchangable order as they build on eachother, not a separate attack all together.
Make it so like, you can't have Dark Vortex without Shadow Blast, and Cyro Cross without Cyro Blast. Whenever you click new skill, a little list should appear showing available skills, and their cost. You would know when to look because it would say availible or unavailable when you went over it, or something like that.
So Like Two Skill Sets, the affinity set, and the Mind Shield Set. It could be set up like a table
Fire
Cold
Light
Shadow
Melee
Shield | Skill 1
Skill 1
Skill 1
"" | Skill 2
"" |
Though I'd prefer a more asthetically pleasing approach, I post a horrible drawn sketch of my thoughts later.
Basically, Zhamphir hit exactly what I was thinking.
That does make sense- certainly having one skill develop from the other (I sort of naturally assumed that it is implied), if they're element and attack/defense related. Then have Feedback as a separate one as well. Though this will probably be most important for the Hero, as in most other cases there is already a natural tendence for some skills to come after others and no need to deviate and choose between them.
As I promised here's my horribly made sketch of the skill system (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z195/ddml/verycrudeskillsystem.jpg) for the hero.
And when I say horrible... well.. just look.^^
I'd like something with the shield in the center, as it seems to be a more neutral element, feedback and static/solid shields in the center with the name, feedback on the bottom (as it's an attack, it's darker and not on the high path like the static shield that's a lot more passive)
The elements in the corners opposite their opposing element, with the stronger skills (2) further away from the center showing that they are more developed into that element.
And finally having each element's resistance in between the element and the shield showing a connection between the two.
unfortunately, doing this requires a whole new GUI just for the skills and loads of extra programming. So I don't expect Craig to sign off on this, but it was just a thought.
Aargh, I'll give you this much: it does look horrible :P Though I uderstand what you're getting at. I myself made a flow-tree diagram on how the elements could develop, along with a discussion on classifying elemental attacks (by their strength, range, number of tiles hit, etc). In fact, I'll go off and start a thread here (http://sinisterdesign.net/forum/index.php?topic=139.0).
I guess the main focus will be on elemental attacks, and that's quite simple, in my opinion. Thus, below are the natural pairings for the human Psy:
-Mind Blast
-Feedback => Vengeance
-Mind Shield => Mega Shield => Long Shield => Big Shield => (Static Shield => Solid State Shield)*
-Pyro Blast => Pyro Hail => (Fire Gate)*
-Light Blast => Light Bomb => (Holy Blast)*
-Shadow Blast => Dark Vortex
-Cryo Blast => Cryo Cross
*learnable by other teammates/units
how about an upgrade for mindblast like
mind beam range 1,2,3
Why not just 3? If it's at 1, why not use mindblast? If it's at 2, why not use an elemental blast? But at 3, you don't see that kind of range.
So, you could click 'learn skill' and it come up with the unrelated 'trees', learn-able separately, as long as they didn't depend on one another? I like it.
And you can level up skills, but I wouldn't mind being able to buy upgrades.
Earlier, KZ noted that he thought it would be an annoying feature, I think that's because you might want to learn one skill, but you need to learn like seven others, am I right?
Yes. I also find that very annoying.
I like the idea of a skill tree typed thingy. I hate having to pay 3000 to get a skill I don't want to buy the one I want.