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Government Shut Down due to No Negotiations

Started by SmartyPants, October 01, 2013, 12:26:45 AM

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The government is shut down, because Obama and Reid refuse to negotiate. Democrats are saying "my way or the highway", while Republicans are looking for a compromise.  The government will remain shut down until Obama gets the rubber stamp that he wants.  At least, Obama is willing to talk to Putin.


Even Fox News was less one-sided about it than you, man. Come on.


I'm just showing the facts, and the facts show that Democrats will keep the government shut down until they get everything they want:

The Republicans said that they will fund everything expect Obamacare.
Obama and Reid said they will not even negotiate.

The Republicans then said that they will fund everything, if the individual mandate is delayed for a year. (Like Obama already did unconstitutionally with the business mandate.)
Obama and Reid said they will not even negotiate.

The Republicans then said that they will fund everything, if Congress and their staff have to use the Obamacare exchanges like everyone else.
Obama and Reid said they will not even negotiate.


6th day of government shutdown: Obama still refuses to negotiate.  Democracy is about having a majority of representatives decide what law is passed.  When there isn't a majority, one side negotiates and changes the law in order to gain a majority.  Democrats' unprecedented refusal to negotiate when they don't have a majority in the House of Representatives is undemocratic.


Given that Congress is less popular than cockroaches right now, I hardly think refusing to concede certain unnegotiable points is a fault in the democratic process -- it merely reveals it.


Quote from: algebra17 on October 06, 2013, 08:53:49 PMI hardly think refusing to concede certain unnegotiable[sic] points is a fault in the democratic process -- it merely reveals it.
It would be one thing if Obama went to the negotiation table and then refused to concede certain things, but instead Obama refuses to even negotiate, because he refuses to make any concessions.  The "my way or the highway" mentality is childish and undemocratic.

Quote from: algebra17 on October 06, 2013, 08:53:49 PMCongress is less popular than cockroaches right now
While Congress is unpopular, Americans tend to like their own representatives.  This means that Americans are just as partisan as their representatives, and that the public hate the half of congress that doesn't agree with them.  This new partisan environment is caused by Obama's constant demagoguery of conservatives and his crusade to force his liberal ideology down the throats of all Americans.  Democrats' refusal to negotiate isn't just ignoring the opinion of their colleagues in Congress, but it means that they completely disregard the views of half of Americans.  This refusal to negotiate is going to further exacerbate the partisan environment that Obama created.


I can't even take this seriously. I literally laughed out loud. Come on, SmartyPants. You can't be serious with this. The Affordable Care Act was passed by both houses of Congress, signed by the president, then ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court. It's a law and it's the centerpiece of Obama's entire presidency. Eviscerating it in exchange for Congressional Republicans doing their jobs and negotiating a budget isn't a "compromise" in any meaningful sense of the word.

Besides, it's been well-documented at this point that the shut-down was a deliberate strategy hatched by conservative groups. Trying to blame it on Obama is just silly.


It is na├»ve of you to actually think Republicans actually expected to defunded Obamacare.  Everyone knows that Obama would rather see the country go into economic collapse than get rid of Obamacare.  The Republicans used defunding Obamacare as starting out point for negotiation.  They actually expect a more modest concession for Obama increasing the debt by another trillion dollars.

The issue here is that the debt ceiling won't be raised, because Obama refuses to negotiate or compromise. I don't even know how anyone could justify how the Democrats refuse to talk to Republicans.  The shut down is hurting the economy, but Obama and Reid won't even talk to Republicans until they get everything they want.  It would be understandable if Democrats said no to certain concessions, but they won't even talk to Republicans because they to refuse give any concessions.

Quote from: Then-Sen. Barack Obama, floor speech in the Senate, March 16, 2006Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. Therefore I intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.
Obama made a great point in 2006.  When you need to increase the debt ceiling by over a trillion dollars, something needs to be done to reduce the deficit.  Republicans are simply asking for something that will do that.  They want something that will improve the economy such as removing Obamacare or approving the construction of the Key Stone pipeline.  Another possibility they brought up is to reduce the rate of spending, so Congress doesn't have to constantly be increasing the debt ceiling.  If Obama didn't spend so much money, then the debt ceiling wouldn't have to be raise what feels like every three months.



Theoretically, the deficit would be reduced because Obamacare is a massive tax.  One of the issues with this theory is that the Congressional Budget Office made did the math before Obama got rid of large sources or revenue by giving Obamacare exceptions to Big Business and special interests.  Time and time again, the CBO finds Obamacare will spend more, tax more, and reduce the deficit less than they thought the year before. I wouldn't be surprised that in the future that the CBO will estimate the deficit increases due to Obamacare.  Also, Obamacare is hurting the economy, and reducing workers from full-time to part-time.  In fact, I was only allowed to work for 29 hours a week during the summer.  Republicans also want to get rid of the massive tax that is Obamacare, because of the economic theory that says tax cuts increase government revenue.  If Obamacare was appealed, then the private sector will grow much quicker and therefore have more money to pay in taxes.  The extra revenue from economic growth will help reduce the deficit.

Whether Obamacare increases or decreases the deficit doesn't really matter at this point, because Republicans seem willing to ask for a concession unrelated to Obamacare.  Meanwhile, the Americans are waiting for Obama to end his "No Negotiation" political theater and talk to Republicans, so this government shutdown will end.  Everyone knows that Obama will eventually have to talk to Republicans, yet the president is willing to let Americans suffer in the meantime in order to try to score political points.


Quote from: algebra17 on October 06, 2013, 08:53:49 PMI hardly think refusing to concede certain unnegotiable[sic] points is a fault in the democratic process -- it merely reveals it.

That a word is less common than its mostly synonymous alternative [nonnegotiable] does not mean that it is wrong. The two words also have slightly distinct connotations, unnegotiable leaning more in the direction of "it is not possible to negotiate this", a connotation I use not wholly literally to indicate that while it is technically possible, it can't be done seriously.

I know, you don't care, but I don't appreciate you [sic]ing my words when they're right.

Hey, did you notice that even McCain acknowledges that the shutdown is pretty much the GOP's fault?


We are finally getting progress on ending this shut down, because Obama is finally negotiating with Republicans (Even though Obama refuses to call it "negotiating"). Even the stock market got better, when Obama decided to act like an adult and talk to Republicans.

Quote from: algebra17 on October 12, 2013, 03:06:36 PMHey, did you notice that even McCain acknowledges that the shutdown is pretty much the GOP's fault?
Did you notice Leon Panetta, Democrat and former Secretary of Defense under Obama, blames the current dysfunction of the federal government on the unwillingness to negotiate? It is not impressive that you found a Republican who didn't want to have a debt ceiling battle. McCain is a veteran politician who is disgruntled that he isn't a leader of the Republican party and that his colleagues rarely listen to him on debt-related matters, because the federal debt has risen expensively during his time in congress.

Quote from: algebra17 on October 12, 2013, 03:06:36 PMI know, you don't care, but I don't appreciate you [sic]ing my words when they're right.
I feel the same way when it comes to your constant [sic]ing.  It is annoying and unnecessary, so I expect you to not be a hypocrite and stop adding needless [sic]s.


The shut-down is over.

QuoteMost House Republicans opposed the bill, but 87 voted to support it. The breakdown showed that Republican leaders were willing to violate their informal rule against advancing bills that do not have majority Republican support in order to end the shutdown. All 198 Democrats voting supported the measure.


"We fought the good fight," said Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio, who has struggled to control the conservative faction in the House, in an interview with a Cincinnati radio station. "We just didn't win."

The Republicans got almost nothing they wanted out of it. And what did their little tantrum cost the nation?

Quote$24 billion.

That's according to an estimate from Standard & Poor's. The financial services company said the shutdown, which ended with a deal late Wednesday night after 16 days, took $24 billion out of the U.S. economy, and reduced projected fourth-quarter GDP growth from 3 percent to 2.4 percent.