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New Orb Ideas

Started by SmartyPants, August 20, 2010, 12:06:12 AM

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ArtDrake

You don't seem to be heeding the second half of a statement made earlier in the dicussion (darn it.. can't find it for a quote).

Most of the time, when an enemy has even a inkling of an opportunity to use its elemental blast or area attack, it will.

Only the lesser ghost and Thug Boss really use Mind Blast most of the time.

SmartyPants

A mental resistance orb would still be more useful than a light resistant orb(which I assume will be put in the game).  The only enemies I saw use light attacks in TSoG were energy golems.  I think it easy enough for Duvalier to just avoid the lasers.  Do you not like the idea of a White Orb in the game, because it will be less useful than a Crystal Orb?

MikeW781

I just felt that almost nobody used the mental attacks, because I have yet to see a Psy of any sort with no element, the Ghosts are the only creatures who used Mind Blast. The others have an elemental attack, which they use more because it is stronger. Especially those with Elemental Blast, which is all-around better than mind blast when they have unlimited Psp. The skill coeffficiant of mind blast is 1/2, while the elemental blasts is 3 (shadow is 2).
Currently tied with Zack for the title of Master of Light!

KZ

Quote from: KZ on September 01, 2010, 07:44:35 PM
So,from the list including the following, what would you support? (I take it as a "nay" for "mental resistance" orb?)

-"gain experience faster"
-"Vendetta"
-"strength increase"
-"mind blast counter"
-"mental resistance"

Ok, we have the following break-down of votes for orbs:

-"mind blast counter"  7/7
-"gain experience faster" 7/7
-"Vendetta" 6/7
-"mental resistance" 2/7
-"strength increase" 2/7

Thus, I'll make the first 2 formulated. Vendetta will also become formulated due to only Ertxiem mildly objecting to it.

The other two ideas didn't really get much support.

For "mental resistance", actually, maybe because it will significantly reduce the damage of the most potent enemies Craig will not include it because it is... too powerful! That's a possibility.

As for "strength increase"- I'd rather not see any orb that could only be used under highly specific circumstances- I'd rather see orbs used by all players, no matter how they decide to act during the optional content (well, save for those instances which are required to get the said orbs)- same issue of restrictivness as people are having with affinities affecting player stats.
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MikeW781

Quote from: KZ on September 03, 2010, 05:18:12 PM
For "mental resistance", actually, maybe because it will significantly reduce the damage of the most potent enemies Craig will not include it because it is... too powerful! That's a possibility.
Too powerful? The strongest enemies all used elemental blasts in TRPG2, and I don't see that changing because they are larger and stronger blasts. Fernatus didn't even have Mind Blast, and he's the only boss we fought.
Currently tied with Zack for the title of Master of Light!

KZ

I am referring here to the list im2smart4u kindly provided on the previous page - it contains the most powerful human and Shadowling units. Plus, Iblis has this evil Feedback attack!

Ok, folks, how about this orb idea (not too appealing, in my opinion, but still): an orb which increases Duvalier's aptitude or personality by 5/10: this will allow many more dialogue options to be available, he'll also be able to lead more men in battle earlier, etc.

And orb which increases Psy Power and another orb which increases Psy Defence by 5 or 10 units? (Much more useful than the idea above- allows the player to have a more defensive/offensice Duvalier depending on the situation, may allow the player to avoid loads of gold farming if Duvalier is too defensively or too offensively trained, which makes one battle very hard indeed, for instance.)
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Ertxiem

I think those 4 orbs are acceptable (although I'm not that enthusiastic too).

The Psy Power Orb and the Psy Defence Orb have in common with the violet orb and the blood orb the increase of maximum PsP and health, respectively.

The personality orb and the aptitude orb would have most use in dialogues, rather than in battle as the other orbs.


I took a look at the already existing orbs, according to the wiki.

We already saw 13 orbs in the TRPG universe:
8 orbs from TRPG 2 (4 resistances + 4 abilities),
2 more orbs that appeared in TPA1 (1 resistance + 1 flying, and a replacement in the red orb functionality),
3 orbs in TPA2  (1 health, 1 PsP and 1 regenerate health) and
The Indigo Orb that gives the Titan Shield replaces the Indigo Orb functionality in TRPG2.

With the main categories:
- 5 resistance orbs (4 elements + physical);
- 6 ability orbs (speed, fly, PsP recover, health recover, max PsP, max health);
- 2 attack orbs (pyro hail / vengeance, big / titan shield).

About the 5+4 orb suggestions:
- 1 orb (mental resistance) would fall in the resistance orbs category, naturally;
- 3+4 orbs (mind blast counter, gain experience faster, strength increase and the 4 KZ just suggested) would fall into the ability orbs category;
- 1 orb (vendetta, quite fitted to be the red orb) would belong in the new attack orbs.

So it seems that the attacks category is the one with less orbs and our suggestions aren't enough to fill that gap. But, to be honest, I can't really suggest anything unique for Duvalier that keeps the game balanced - using 4 orbs of the above will already make Duvalier significantly more powerful than the other teammates.
Ert, the Dead Cow.
With 2 small Mandelbrot sets as the spots.

KZ

Mm, exactly- I sort of put it out there to get a move on next ideas. Can't really thinking of anything that can be particularly useful in battle- we have, effectively, covered the resistances, the abilities and the more powerful attacks (Vendetta, Titan Shield). I have to note, however, that we have practically reached the limit of how many orbs there will be in the game, so the question is- do we actually need any more orb ideas? Assuming the 3 suggestions which became formulated come through, we have, as Ert noted, the 12 original orbs (we still don't know what will replace the Crimson and Red orbs- hopefully vendetta), and with "Vendetta", "mind blast counter" and "learn experience faster", we have 15/16 orb places.  And I think that Craig has already ideas of his own.
But in case he hasn't, I completely agree with Ert on the attack category. And I think I do have an idea which might not disbalance the game (though I wonder how much re-coding that might entail)- why not give Duvalier solid state shield? And if that would require too much re-coding, why not give him some auxiliary ability, maybe Leap? (Though wait, that doesn't really work for teleporting through objects, and Azure Orb takes care of that. But something to that effect- maybe one of Luca's abilities?)
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Zackirus

With that said, I have a final orb that is different in its own sense (Its the only thing left to add to combat!)

Grey Orb: Duvalier's attacks ingnore Enemy's Resistances and Immunities.
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Ertxiem

When I wrote my previous post, I was thoinking that Duvalier could get an orb that gives him soul suck or leap. I discarded leap because the azure orb will somewhat cover that area. The soul suck could be nice, but I hesitated because it may allow Duvalier to easily solo all the battles from that moment on. The solid state shield is not a bad idea (but I don't see it as a very good one either).

The grey orb seems to be too powerful as is. What if the resistances become only 25% and the immunities are treated as resistances (50% damage reduction)?
Ert, the Dead Cow.
With 2 small Mandelbrot sets as the spots.

Zackirus

I'm fine with that. The Question is: Does everyone like this idea aswell.


Grey Orb: When Duvalier's Affinity attacks hit Resistance, Damage goes down by 25%, with Immunities 50%.
If The World Was A Bit More Like Canada, Then We Would Have A Great World, And Hockey 24/7

- Lord Canada

SmartyPants

Quote from: MikeW781 on September 03, 2010, 05:27:33 PM
Quote from: KZ on September 03, 2010, 05:18:12 PM
For "mental resistance", actually, maybe because it will significantly reduce the damage of the most potent enemies Craig will not include it because it is... too powerful! That's a possibility.
Too powerful? The strongest enemies all used elemental blasts in TRPG2, and I don't see that changing because they are larger and stronger blasts. Fernatus didn't even have Mind Blast, and he's the only boss we fought.
You avoid my earlier question.  Do you think the White Orb shouldn't be included in the game, because there are not enough Light-using enemies?  If you don't think the mental resistance orb should be included because it is not useful enough, then you should also wish for Craig to not include the White Orb.

Quote from: KZ on September 03, 2010, 05:33:35 PMOk, folks, how about this orb idea (not too appealing, in my opinion, but still): an orb which increases Duvalier's aptitude or personality by 5/10: this will allow many more dialogue options to be available, he'll also be able to lead more men in battle earlier, etc.

And orb which increases Psy Power and another orb which increases Psy Defence by 5 or 10 units? (Much more useful than the idea above- allows the player to have a more defensive/offensice Duvalier depending on the situation, may allow the player to avoid loads of gold farming if Duvalier is too defensively or too offensively trained, which makes one battle very hard indeed, for instance.)
Boosting Psy Power, Psy Defence, Apitude, or Personality with an orb seems like a lame substitute for earning gold and training.

Quote from: KZ on September 03, 2010, 07:27:07 PM
But in case he hasn't, I completely agree with Ert on the attack category. And I think I do have an idea which might not disbalance the game (though I wonder how much re-coding that might entail)- why not give Duvalier solid state shield? And if that would require too much re-coding, why not give him some auxiliary ability, maybe Leap? (Though wait, that doesn't really work for teleporting through objects, and Azure Orb takes care of that. But something to that effect- maybe one of Luca's abilities?)
Since Duvalier will be able to learn knife, giving him Leap would further take away Arman's uniqueness.  If you give Duvalier solid state shield, then Set will not have any attack of his own, because you can't learn soild state shield without leaning static shiled.

Quote from: Zackirus on September 03, 2010, 08:42:54 PM
Grey Orb: When Duvalier's Affinity attacks hit Resistance, Damage goes down by 25%, with Immunities 50%.
I will support it, if you can explain how the orb would allow him to ignore resistances and immunites.

ArtDrake

Quote from: im2smart4uDon't incorrectly tell me what my beliefs are!

Other people don't tend to like it either when you do the same. The Light Resistance Orb is useful because of sheer usage of the energy golems, whereas a mental resistance orb would only apply in the first 2 cellar fights and only the boss in a side-quest, an uncommon enemy in a gold-farming mission, and by the time you've gotten to Crypt 2, we're mostly on to Ghosts or Greaters.

Point 2: It's not a substitute. It's an alternative idea, as the first was never set in stone. The character isn't handicapped in that he can't earn gold and move xp. Farming is an okay thing.

Point 3: Arman's "uniqueness" would never be taken away. If we came up with an idea like that, which might intrude on another ally's niche, "New Teammate Attack Ideas" is overflowing, and should be able to pick up the slack. I hear the idea of Poison Stab is popular. Maybe you could check it out.

Point 4: [You reach out and touch the orb. Suddenly, everything is dull, numb, and mute. You are overcome with a wave of anxiety, vaguely wondering what those shapes are. Suddenly, everything comes back into focus, and you can see every detail of the people around you, and find that they are not as resistant as you thought they were]

Often times, the comments offer no more explanation than that. Perhaps you could come up with one yourself, if you're so eager to see and explanation.

SmartyPants

#73
Quote from: algebra17 on September 04, 2010, 12:35:24 AMOther people don't tend to like it either when you do the same. The Light Resistance Orb is useful because of sheer usage of the energy golems, whereas a mental resistance orb would only apply in the first 2 cellar fights and only the boss in a side-quest, an uncommon enemy in a gold-farming mission, and by the time you've gotten to Crypt 2, we're mostly on to Ghosts or Greaters.
Are you still being pissy, because I pointed out how unbelievably dumb the Soul Capacitor was?  I never put words into anyone's mouth.  I asked a question?  I think you didn't noctice that more than lesser ghosts use mind blast.  Go back and read my list of enemies that use mental attacks.  Since we should have a white orb, becuase of the "sheer usage of the energy golems", then we should have a mental resistance orb because of the sheer usage of spirits, the sheer usage of shadowlings, the sheer usage of capes, and the sheer usage of est.

Quote from: algebra17 on September 04, 2010, 12:35:24 AMPoint 3: Arman's "uniqueness" would never be taken away. If we came up with an idea like that, which might intrude on another ally's niche, "New Teammate Attack Ideas" is overflowing, and should be able to pick up the slack. I hear the idea of Poison Stab is popular. Maybe you could check it out.
So, even if Duvalier recieved all of Arman's attacks, Arman will still never lose his uniqueness? Do you realize that "unique" means "being the only one"?  I like Poison Stab, but it would not work due to the fact that it messes with enemy AI.

Quote from: algebra17 on September 04, 2010, 12:35:24 AMPoint 4: [You reach out and touch the orb. Suddenly, everything is dull, numb, and mute. You are overcome with a wave of anxiety, vaguely wondering what those shapes are. Suddenly, everything comes back into focus, and you can see every detail of the people around you, and find that they are not as resistant as you thought they were]

Often times, the comments offer no more explanation than that. Perhaps you could come up with one yourself, if you're so eager to see and explanation.
If I was able to think of a way for his orb to work, then I would have supported it.  Your explination doesn't make any sense.  Why would the Hero's perception of enemy resistance remove the enemy's resistance?

KZ

Ok folks, let's relax here. Both of you made points enough, but let's not forget that the subject of your initial debate is pointless, as people effectively discarded the idea- hence, there is no point in both of you spoiling each other's moods.
Let's just say that im2msart4u, you can be quite frivolous with interpretation of the selected quotes from other people, and can be quite bullish/aggressive when logically arguing your point.
Algebra17, just wanted to say that sometimes it's best to live something as is and move on, especially when the original argument becomes baseless through redundancy.


Ok, about the orb- I can give an explanation, but I am in a rush right now, so will make an edit about it later.
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