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Author Topic: New Psi Attacks  (Read 5988 times)

Barzul

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2010, 03:18:29 PM »

I'm actually with you for that im2smart... It would be interesting, but not something I really want to see.

And push, or whatever the attack name was as I don't remember, has been brought up and denied at least twice, mezzoforte.
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Ertxiem

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2010, 06:33:50 PM »

I don't recall exactly why, but I have the idea that moving the enemies around is tricky due to the presence of obstacles (juxtapose don't have that problem). The other problem is that pushing the enemy only 1 square away isn't much and the enemy may move and attack again the next turn.
I only found one reference done by KZ commenting the push attack. In there it's referred that there may be moral problems if Set pushes an enemy off a cliff, causing injury.
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SmartyPants

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2010, 08:16:40 PM »

The other problem is that pushing the enemy only 1 square away isn't much and the enemy may move and attack again the next turn.
That is the reason it wasn't popular. You move the enemy back a space and then the enemy kills Set on the next turn.

bugfartboy

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2010, 07:44:35 PM »

Ert got the basis of my idea. I incorrectly named this thread. It wasn't a new element. It was just an old, rarely really used one. I like sheild crush. It holds my idea in it's walls.
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KZ

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2010, 05:37:59 AM »

No need for new element, methinks, but the attack in question has been discussed quite some time ago, when folks weren't happy with the passive nature of Set and his inability to cause even the slightest damage, which could easily turn the tide of battle in the player's favour.
The idea of the push attack, although popular, was rejected by Craig himself on the ground of not fitting into Set's character. Then we proposed to have a cut-scene, where Set is forced to use push in order to save someone, as there is no other alternative (e.g. a huge rock, that no shield can block, falling on Duvalier, and no one is close enough to push him out of the way). Not sure what happened after that, but the idea died down.
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Ertxiem

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2010, 05:21:17 PM »

The Shield Crush may be used by Duvalier or by an enemy on us (but not by Set).

One attack that would be fitted for Set (in particular, he describe something in the lines of that) is putting an enemy inside a shield for a few turns (maybe called incarceration). That attack would freeze the enemy for a few turns. The only problem I see with that attack is messing up the enemy attack code. I remember thinking about this attack, but I can't remember if it was formulated.
The description would be more or less the way Push was formulated by mezzoforte, but without moving the enemy.

Perhaps this thread could be renamed "Shield based attacks (formerly called A New Element)".
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SmartyPants

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2010, 05:44:36 PM »

One attack that would be fitted for Set (in particular, he describe something in the lines of that) is putting an enemy inside a shield for a few turns (maybe called incarceration). That attack would freeze the enemy for a few turns. The only problem I see with that attack is messing up the enemy attack code. I remember thinking about this attack, but I can't remember if it was formulated.
Didn't everyone agree not to suggest attacks that mess with enemy AI, because we all know that there isn't a chance that they will be put in the game.

Ertxiem

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2010, 06:40:16 PM »

I'm not sure if freezing an enemy messes up the AI. I don't know how flexible is the new AI with respect to changing the speed of the unit.
For all that I know, the code may already allow that with a new value for, say, the variable that marks if an unit is dead or alive. Or it could be coded with a new variable (a flag) that would code if that enemy should move (if he is free) or be skipped (if he is frozen/incarcerated).
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Ert, the Dead Cow.
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SmartyPants

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2010, 08:25:01 AM »

I'm not sure if freezing an enemy messes up the AI. I don't know how flexible is the new AI with respect to changing the speed of the unit.
Craig would not include a Dark Spriggat class in TPA2, because Dark Breath would slow down an enemy's speed.  Reducing an enemy's speed to 0 would require him to program every enemy to react differently when hit.  That is alot of AI to reprogram.

KZ

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2010, 09:10:25 AM »

I suspect that, unfortunately, im2msart4u is right here, and although such an attack would be interesting to have, I think that it might be too complicated to make.
Though, how about this solution- instead of the enemy, a solid-state shield like object appears in the place, with the same hp as the enemy unit, and it is treated as an enemy for a turn. Not sure how complicated would that be to implement, but it will be able to get rid of the issue of messing up the enemy AI, as it doesn't require tinkering with the enemy speed (the issue I do see is the problem of transferring hp of the enemy to the "blob" that replaces the said enemy).

In any case, going back to the initial header of the topic- no need for a new element.


PS
I suggest the discussion continues in the new teammate attacks thread.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 09:14:11 AM by KZ »
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MikeW781

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2010, 03:26:37 PM »

I'm not sure if freezing an enemy messes up the AI. I don't know how flexible is the new AI with respect to changing the speed of the unit.
Craig would not include a Dark Spriggat class in TPA2, because Dark Breath would slow down an enemy's speed.  Reducing an enemy's speed to 0 would require him to program every enemy to react differently when hit.  That is alot of AI to reprogram.
Well, he could make the lowest speed could get taken 1, then it wouldn't be hard. The Stone Golem, and maybe the Bronze, still have a speed of 1. Also, he has a Dark Spriggat foe, and friendly fire doesn't drop their speed.
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Ertxiem

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2010, 04:58:46 PM »

I think that Mike was suggesting that, when the speed is reduced, the AI used would be one corresponding to an enemy with that speed. I think it's clever but potentially buggy because the attacks could be quite different from enemy to enemy (since some units have ranged attacks and other don't). (And to complete Mike's idea, I guess he forgot about the Energy Golem that has 0 speed.)

What Craig (or Malignus, back then) said is true for the old AI. If the new AI is done differently, the speed varying problem may have been overcome. For instance, if the AI is coded recursively (but the processing required may turn the game too slow).
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ArtDrake

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Re: A New Element?
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2010, 04:41:15 PM »

Duvalier only struggles to pull a switch with his mind when he's not next to it. Psy is much better at enhancing strength and melee powers, and with the addition of Duvalier having Knife, he'll have to have a Str stat. If he has a Psy Power of 15, he should be able to lift ca. a cat's weight, and with a Strength of 10, he might be able to pick up a small table. Combined, he might just be able to lift a boulder.
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