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Newt Gingrich

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Mitt Romney

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[SmartyPants]

Based on my understanding, Duckling doesn't know why he dislikes Perry and Craig doesn't like Perry because he unintentionally said the wrong number when speaking to college kids.

[CraigStern]

Nah--I was just teasing. I do dislike Perry, but they have more to do with his policy positions and general attitude than with any particular slips of the tongue.

[SmartyPants]

I do dislike Perry, but they have more to do with his policy positions and general attitude than with any particular slips of the tongue.

That isn't surprising, since Chicagoans have a fanatical devotion to Obama.

[ArtDrake]

That crosses a line.

[SmartyPants]

That crosses a line.

I couldn't have been the only one who saw the riots in Chicago that celebrated him winning the last presidential election?  Like it or hate it, people in Chicago are radically devoted to Obama.  That is probably why Obama headquartered his reelection campaign in Chicago.

[ArtDrake]

Oh, dear. I seem to have mistaken your use of the term "Chicagoans," used in its form meaning "some Chicagoans," and merely implying the "some," for the more common use of generalization, where the word "some" is neither implied nor used, and which would suggest that all persons residing in Chicago have "a fanatical devotion to Obama."

[Deagonx]

which would suggest that all persons residing in Chicago have "a fanatical devotion to Obama."

That's exactly what he was trying to convey. It wasn't a mistake.

[SmartyPants]

Who cares!  I am sorry for getting everyone off topic.


Does anyone have any opinions on Herman Cain or his 9,9,9 plan?

[CraigStern]

I do not see what devotion to Obama has to do with one's like or dislike of Perry. Those are surely two separate considerations.

That said: I do not have any sort of devotion to Obama, fanatical or otherwise. I dislike Perry on his own merits.

Oh, about the 9-9-9 plan: check out Cain discussing it with David Gregory on Meet the Press.

[SmartyPants]

I do not see what devotion to Obama has to do with one's like or dislike of Perry. Those are surely two separate considerations.

There are two types of people who devote themselves to Obama.  There are those who think Obama can do nothing wrong which is based on stubbornness and denial.  They don't like anyone who criticizes Obama which Perry has done several times as governor of Texas.  The other people who devote themeselves to Obama, because they agree with his rhetoric.  They wouldn't like Perry because Perry's beliefs are very different from Obama's.

Oh, about the 9-9-9 plan: check out Cain discussing it with David Gregory on Meet the Press.

Do you have any opinions on it or did you just want to post the video?

For those who don't know: Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan isn't a Dominos pizza deal.  The 9-9-9 plan is a 9% Business Flat Tax, 9% Individual Flat Tax, and 9% National Sales Tax.

I don't really like the 9-9-9 plan per se, because it seems a little too regressive, but I do like how it encourges reforming the tax code.  Even though the 8% sales tax works very well for the state of Texas, I am not sure that a national sales tax work nearly as well.  The continually growing 67,204 pages long tax code (as of Feb 2009) is overly complex.  Only the most wealthy corporations and individuals can hire the necessary accountants and lawyers to read and understand the massive tax code to take full advantage of the massive number of tax breaks and loopholes.  Because of the massive number of tax breaks, 50% of Americans don't pay any taxes at all.  Another issue I have with the 9-9-9 plan is that it wants to do away with the payroll tax.  The payroll tax is a much more effective way to run social security and Medicare, then having congress pick how much of the budget they will spend on Social Security and Medicare.  I do agree with lowering the corporate tax rate (maybe not as low as 9%).  The United States doesn't need to have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world.  If one lowers the corporate tax rate, then it may make it possible to make the capital gains tax more progressive without drastically lowering the value of stocks.

Can someone do me a favor and find stuff they agree with me about, instead of only nit-picking things they disagree with?

[ArtDrake]

Someone can, but it probably isn't me. I'm not politically aware enough to effectively debate or agree with half of your points, and I tend not to agree with the half I can really understand.

[SmartyPants]

Duckling, I know it is hard for you to agree with me, but can we at least agree that it is better to have a tax system with tax brackets instead of a flat tax?

[CraigStern]

50% of Americans don't pay any taxes at all.

SmartyPants, I'm pretty sure I corrected you on this before: you're thinking of income taxes, not "any taxes at all."

Anyway, I agree with you that a progressive tax bracket-based system is a better way to structure income taxes than imposing a flat tax would be. Flat taxes tend to hurt the poor: 9% of the income from someone living on the brink is an onerous burden, while 9% of the income from someone making millions a year is a drop in the bucket. Adding a 9% federal sales tax on top of it would make the effect on the poor even worse.

There are also economic reasons not to want a national sales tax. Low demand in many sectors of the economy is responsible for poor hiring and wage data. Imposing what would effectively be an automatic 9% price increase across the board could easily hurt demand, which would prolong the recovery.

[Deagonx]

Herman Cain has admitted himself that the 999 plan is merely a blueprint for discussion. It can never happen realistically, but it proves a good point that the tax system needs to be greatly simplified.

[SmartyPants]

Do you think the tax code needs to be simplified or do you prefer that the government uses tax breaks in an attempt to micromanage our choices?
By simplifing our tax code, it will save America over $400 billion.

50% of Americans don't pay any taxes at all.

SmartyPants, I'm pretty sure I corrected you on this before: you're thinking of income taxes, not "any taxes at all."

I forgot to add the "federal income" part.  State taxes, local taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, and other taxes are not part of that percentage.

There are also economic reasons not to want a national sales tax. Low demand in many sectors of the economy is responsible for poor hiring and wage data. Imposing what would effectively be an automatic 9% price increase across the board could easily hurt demand, which would prolong the recovery.

I don't think demand will be hurt that much because the sales tax will be offset by the lower income tax rate.  I think the logic is that if you let people keep more of their income by lowering their income taxes, then they can afford to pay the increase prices caused by the sales tax. 

In Texas, we have an 8% sales tax and no state income tax.  I prefer to be taxed when I buy things, because I expect to lose money when I buy things.  The payroll and income taxes kinda piss me off, because it seems wrong to lose money for earning an income.