The Paste Game

[ArtDrake]

[spoiler=rant]Just because someone launches a war in the name of a religion doesn't mean it is religiously justified. I don't think the word "crusade" appears in the Bible.

Yes, but we must purge the land of evil, right?

-- Demon Duck

What if a man or woman was the most atrocious person to have ever lived, but they didn't care?

What if they thought everything they did was right, and they were a Christian, and they prayed, and they worshipped, and they obeyed the commandments, and they never committed a deadly sin. What then, if they, throughout their whole life, wronged people to the greatest extent, while simply thinking themselves shrewd, or impassive, or oblivious?

What if they never defied their moral compass once, with no sin because they had no concept of good or evil, because they never had been told that the things they did were evil, wrong, atrocious; or maybe they had been told, but their faith blinded them, leading them to believe they were only working in the service of their Lord? No sin. God would have to let him or her in through the pearly gates, and everyone would know him or her, and they would recoil in fear of the awful person they knew in life whom they swore would not follow them into death. And "Heaven" would be as Hell. Fear, chaos, evil, lies would spread through the promised land above, and this merciless scourge without sin would leave hate and loathing where he went.

Now consider the opposite case. A man or woman learns of wrongs and rights, but they a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Confucianist, an aborigine with tribal beliefs. They live their life as best they can, and they go to Hell. This is why I don't like the message Christianity tries to get across, and for other reasons, too.

And punctuate your sentences correctly, will you? It's hard to read when you don't.

Okay. I'm going to quote this verse again. Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

When? I don't remember sinning.

--Blasphemous Billed One

You don't get into heaven because you don't sin.

So you go to hell for not sinning?

-- Insolent Insomniacal Waterfowl

If that were the case, no one would get into heaven.

People without sin would.

--Mallard of Malarkey

Sin isn't violating your moral compass, it is violating God's law and living your life apart from him.

But how can God condemn a person to eternal punishment for violating a law they didn't know existed?
I would think a kind and loving God would only punish you for doing something you know is wrong.

-- Funky Floater Fowl

It is ignoring God and telling him that you don't want to listen to him.

I can't say I've had the opportunity to do either. The latter's possibility is doubtful, given the current metaphysical climate, and the former is impossible, with you rubbing Him in my nose every few weeks.

-- Yawning Yellow One

As Christians, we still sin. This is a quote from some Christian (I forgot his name) as best I remember it.
The difference between a Christian and a Non-Christian is not that one has no sins and the other does, but that one takes part with a reconciled God against his sins while the other takes part with his sins against a dreaded God.
When a Christian gets to heaven, their sinful nature is completely erased so there will be no sin.

Up-bup-bub-bup-BUP! TISK! I don't have any sins on me. I took a shower, and I made sure to get them all off, with soap and somewhat holy water.
And how about when an atheist gets to heaven? Then what happens? I'll bet it's more impressive than sin erasure. I'll bet Hell freezes over the very same day.
And did I mention that I reject, loathe, despise, and quite regret my sins? Well -- the ones that hurt people. The ones like not worshipping a creator that's provided scant evidence for His claim, and who is completely invincible and invulnerable and all-powerful, and therefore cannot be hurt by anything, and therefore my choosing not to worship Him for dignity and integrity's sake couldn't hurt Him a bit.
Three letters. Q, E, and D.

-- Logical Louis Parker (with apologies to Alan Moore)

If there is a god, his actions throughout the centuries have not earned him my worship, but my enmity. If there is a god, he has allowed his holy teachings to be debased, misused and distorted. If there is a god, he is a murderer - a genocidal maniac who has committed more evil than any demon in the name of a passing fancy!

Why are we supposed to worship him merely for creating us, then proceeding to fill our lives with suffering and pain? If he is real, he is not perfect, but more flawed than any human.

You are basically asking how God can be good if there is so much evil in the world. God could have gotten rid of the evil in the very beginning by killing Adam and Eve and starting over. He wages of sin are death. But he didn't. Why? I can guess. Despite all of the terrible things that go on, God uses them to accomplish something good. In the story of Joseph in Genesis, Joseph's brothers sold him as a slave. In the end, Joseph ended up saving several people from a famine. He then says at the end, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." A good (or terrible, maybe) example of this would be the Holocaust. Despite how horrible that was, God used that to cause Israel to be reformed as a nation, like predicted in Ezekiel a lot earlier. It isn't exactly pleasant to think about it, but God can and will use terrible things to get stuff done. If he didn't, he wouldn't have anything to use at all.
The other part of the guess is that God's plan is to make the best possible ending. So, no matter how bad things are now, things will be okay in the end.
The last part of your post reminds me of a testimony I heard from someone in my youth group. Their life had been very bad. I won't go into all the details, but it included drugs, depression, and suicide attempts. I haven't said the worst of it, and I'm not going to. They are a Christian now. Their testimony is that, no matter how bad things get, God can help you still.
If our lives were always wonderful, then we wouldn't see our need for God. We would be content to live/die as we were.

Yes, but I don't see the need for God anyway. Maybe God should have made that bit clearer. Sure, he helped create the whole universe, but I've lived my life without even seeing the dang fool, and I don't see any reason to love the Dude now.

-- Opinionated Overbalanced One (splash!)[/spoiler]

[pruneman]

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