What's your religion?

[Steelfist]

You don't seem to grasp the central point here.

You may 'know' that your religion is the only true one, but other people feel exactly the same about their own

Who are you to tell them they are wrong? There is no placefor a zealot in the world, and nor should there be.

I don't care if you hate abortions. I don't care if you despise homosexuals. I don't even care that you misunderstand the bible itself (Which you do)!

If there is a god, his actions throughout the centuries have not earned him my worship, but my emnity. If there is a god, he has allowed his holy teachings to be debased, misused and distorted. If there is a god, he is a murderer - a genocidal maniac who has commited more evil than any demon in the name of a passing fancy!

Why are we supposed to worship him merely for creating us, then proceeding to fill our lives with suffering and pain? If he is real, he is not perfect, but more flawed than any human.

[Deagonx]

You don't seem to grasp the central point here.

You may 'know' that your religion is the only true one, but other people feel exactly the same about their own

Who are you to tell them they are wrong? There is no placefor a zealot in the world, and nor should there be.

I don't care if you hate abortions. I don't care if you despise homosexuals. I don't even care that you misunderstand the bible itself (Which you do)!

If there is a god, his actions throughout the centuries have not earned him my worship, but my emnity. If there is a god, he has allowed his holy teachings to be debased, misused and distorted. If there is a god, he is a murderer - a genocidal maniac who has commited more evil than any demon in the name of a passing fancy!

Why are we supposed to worship him merely for creating us, then proceeding to fill our lives with suffering and pain? If he is real, he is not perfect, but more flawed than any human.

I dont despise homosexuals, I hate abortions though. Do you NOT hate abortions? are you not AGAINST the taking of a life?

I think he allowed his holy teachings to be misinterpretted to fit peoples bad nature, as a test. My life is not full of suffering and pain, though it does include some. He is perfect, he has no flaws. And you being angry at him for all the suffering in the world is a lack of wisdom. Who knows how much suffering he has STOPPED?

[bugfartboy]

And the suffering that there is is of our own doing.

[Deagonx]

Exactly, you act as if its GODS fault that someone hurts you.
He gave us the means to make a painless world. Humans have distorted it, it is not his job to fix it.
It is our punishment for our uncountable sins we rack up as we live.

[ArtDrake]

What if a man or woman was the most atrocious person to have ever lived, but they didn't care?

What if they thought everything they did was right, and they were a Christian, and they prayed, and they worshipped, and they obeyed the commandments, and they never committed a deadly sin. What then, if they, throughout their whole life, wronged people to the greatest extent, while simply thinking themselves shrewd, or impassive, or oblivious?

What if they never defied their moral compass once, with no sin because they had no concept of good or evil, because they never had been told that the things they did were evil, wrong, atrocious; or maybe they had been told, but their faith blinded them, leading them to believe they were only working in the service of their Lord? No sin. God would have to let him or her in through the pearly gates, and everyone would know him or her, and they would recoil in fear of the awful person they knew in life whom they swore would not follow them into death. And "Heaven" would be as Hell. Fear, chaos, evil, lies would spread through the promised land above, and this merciless scourge without sin would leave hate and loathing where he went.

Now consider the opposite case. A man or woman learns of wrongs and rights, but they a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Confucianist, an aborigine with tribal beliefs. They live their life as best they can, and they go to Hell. This is why I don't like the message Christianity tries to get across, and for other reasons, too.

And punctuate your sentences correctly, will you? It's hard to read when you don't.

[Steelfist]

Hmm. No answer about the genocide thing, I notice.

About abortions.

At the stage an abortion is legally permitted, it is not even truly alive. It's a potential for a life, no more, no less. And if a mother chooses not to accept it, that is their choice. It isn't your business, it isn't your concern and it isn't within your ability to stop.

You say you don't despise homosexuals? You believe them to be abominations, do you not. You said something of that kind when you began the gay marriage topic.

About whether or not it is god's duty to fix things.

Perhaps you are correct, though that was not the point I originally tried to make. Nontheless, many christians are passively waiting for god to do just that - fix things - instead of trying to improve the current situation.

[Duskling]

Also, many, many people were killed because they didn't believe in God, adding even more to Steelfist's "genocidal maniac" point. Religion, no matter which, started many of the conflicts in history.

Various Crusades,

French Wars of Religion,

The Thirty Years' War,

and the Second Sudanese Civil War, to name a few.

[cyso]

Just because someone launches a war in the name of a religion doesn't mean it is religiously justified. I don't think the word "crusade" appears in the Bible.

What if a man or woman was the most atrocious person to have ever lived, but they didn't care?

What if they thought everything they did was right, and they were a Christian, and they prayed, and they worshipped, and they obeyed the commandments, and they never committed a deadly sin. What then, if they, throughout their whole life, wronged people to the greatest extent, while simply thinking themselves shrewd, or impassive, or oblivious?

What if they never defied their moral compass once, with no sin because they had no concept of good or evil, because they never had been told that the things they did were evil, wrong, atrocious; or maybe they had been told, but their faith blinded them, leading them to believe they were only working in the service of their Lord? No sin. God would have to let him or her in through the pearly gates, and everyone would know him or her, and they would recoil in fear of the awful person they knew in life whom they swore would not follow them into death. And "Heaven" would be as Hell. Fear, chaos, evil, lies would spread through the promised land above, and this merciless scourge without sin would leave hate and loathing where he went.

Now consider the opposite case. A man or woman learns of wrongs and rights, but they a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Confucianist, an aborigine with tribal beliefs. They live their life as best they can, and they go to Hell. This is why I don't like the message Christianity tries to get across, and for other reasons, too.

And punctuate your sentences correctly, will you? It's hard to read when you don't.

Okay. I'm going to quote this verse again. Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
You don't get into heaven because you don't sin. If that were the case, no one would get into heaven. Sin isn't violating your moral compass, it is violating God's law and living your life apart from him. It is ignoring God and telling him that you don't want to listen to him. As Christians, we still sin. This is a quote from some Christian (I forgot his name) as best I remember it.
The difference between a Christian and a Non-Christian is not that one has no sins and the other does, but that one takes part with a reconciled God against his sins while the other takes part with his sins against a dreaded God.
When a Christian gets to heaven, their sinful nature is completely erased so there will be no sin.

If there is a god, his actions throughout the centuries have not earned him my worship, but my enmity. If there is a god, he has allowed his holy teachings to be debased, misused and distorted. If there is a god, he is a murderer - a genocidal maniac who has committed more evil than any demon in the name of a passing fancy!

Why are we supposed to worship him merely for creating us, then proceeding to fill our lives with suffering and pain? If he is real, he is not perfect, but more flawed than any human.

You are basically asking how God can be good if there is so much evil in the world. God could have gotten rid of the evil in the very beginning by killing Adam and Eve and starting over. He wages of sin are death. But he didn't. Why? I can guess. Despite all of the terrible things that go on, God uses them to accomplish something good. In the story of Joseph in Genesis, Joseph's brothers sold him as a slave. In the end, Joseph ended up saving several people from a famine. He then says at the end, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." A good (or terrible, maybe) example of this would be the Holocaust. Despite how horrible that was, God used that to cause Israel to be reformed as a nation, like predicted in Ezekiel a lot earlier. It isn't exactly pleasant to think about it, but God can and will use terrible things to get stuff done. If he didn't, he wouldn't have anything to use at all.
The other part of the guess is that God's plan is to make the best possible ending. So, no matter how bad things are now, things will be okay in the end.
The last part of your post reminds me of a testimony I heard from someone in my youth group. Their life had been very bad. I won't go into all the details, but it included drugs, depression, and suicide attempts. I haven't said the worst of it, and I'm not going to. They are a Christian now. Their testimony is that, no matter how bad things get, God can help you still.
If our lives were always wonderful, then we wouldn't see our need for God. We would be content to live/die as we were.

[bugfartboy]

Guys: You all say "How can God be good when there's so much bad in the world?" I have a story of my own for you.

Years and years ago, I was ten. Now, my being ten and all, I was absolutely terrified of spiders. So much that my parents put an electric spider repellent in my room. And so I let it be. But one day, I see a spider crawling around on my bed. I smoosh the spider and am about to take the spider repeller off the wall, when my dad walks in. Upon his asking what I'm doing, I answer: "The thing is broken... I'm gonna throw it away." But just after that my dad says to me: "Son, you've only seen one spider, right? Now how many have you seen it keep away?"

I think it has relevance. Just because you can't see something working, doesn't mean it's not. Now imagine God as the spider repeller, mankind as the kid, and evil as the spiders. Makes you think, doesn't it?

[Idozen Cair]

Just because someone launches a war in the name of a religion doesn't mean it is religiously justified. I don't think the word "crusade" appears in the Bible.

What if a man or woman was the most atrocious person to have ever lived, but they didn't care?

What if they thought everything they did was right, and they were a Christian, and they prayed, and they worshipped, and they obeyed the commandments, and they never committed a deadly sin. What then, if they, throughout their whole life, wronged people to the greatest extent, while simply thinking themselves shrewd, or impassive, or oblivious?

What if they never defied their moral compass once, with no sin because they had no concept of good or evil, because they never had been told that the things they did were evil, wrong, atrocious; or maybe they had been told, but their faith blinded them, leading them to believe they were only working in the service of their Lord? No sin. God would have to let him or her in through the pearly gates, and everyone would know him or her, and they would recoil in fear of the awful person they knew in life whom they swore would not follow them into death. And "Heaven" would be as Hell. Fear, chaos, evil, lies would spread through the promised land above, and this merciless scourge without sin would leave hate and loathing where he went.

Now consider the opposite case. A man or woman learns of wrongs and rights, but they a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Confucianist, an aborigine with tribal beliefs. They live their life as best they can, and they go to Hell. This is why I don't like the message Christianity tries to get across, and for other reasons, too.

And punctuate your sentences correctly, will you? It's hard to read when you don't.

Okay. I'm going to quote this verse again. Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
You don't get into heaven because you don't sin. If that were the case, no one would get into heaven. Sin isn't violating your moral compass, it is violating God's law and living your life apart from him. It is ignoring God and telling him that you don't want to listen to him. As Christians, we still sin. This is a quote from some Christian (I forgot his name) as best I remember it.
The difference between a Christian and a Non-Christian is not that one has no sins and the other does, but that one takes part with a reconciled God against his sins while the other takes part with his sins against a dreaded God.
When a Christian gets to heaven, their sinful nature is completely erased so there will be no sin.

If there is a god, his actions throughout the centuries have not earned him my worship, but my enmity. If there is a god, he has allowed his holy teachings to be debased, misused and distorted. If there is a god, he is a murderer - a genocidal maniac who has committed more evil than any demon in the name of a passing fancy!

Why are we supposed to worship him merely for creating us, then proceeding to fill our lives with suffering and pain? If he is real, he is not perfect, but more flawed than any human.

You are basically asking how God can be good if there is so much evil in the world. God could have gotten rid of the evil in the very beginning by killing Adam and Eve and starting over. He wages of sin are death. But he didn't. Why? I can guess. Despite all of the terrible things that go on, God uses them to accomplish something good. In the story of Joseph in Genesis, Joseph's brothers sold him as a slave. In the end, Joseph ended up saving several people from a famine. He then says at the end, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." A good (or terrible, maybe) example of this would be the Holocaust. Despite how horrible that was, God used that to cause Israel to be reformed as a nation, like predicted in Ezekiel a lot earlier. It isn't exactly pleasant to think about it, but God can and will use terrible things to get stuff done. If he didn't, he wouldn't have anything to use at all.
The other part of the guess is that God's plan is to make the best possible ending. So, no matter how bad things are now, things will be okay in the end.
The last part of your post reminds me of a testimony I heard from someone in my youth group. Their life had been very bad. I won't go into all the details, but it included drugs, depression, and suicide attempts. I haven't said the worst of it, and I'm not going to. They are a Christian now. Their testimony is that, no matter how bad things get, God can help you still.
If our lives were always wonderful, then we wouldn't see our need for God. We would be content to live/die as we were.

WHat are you guys exactly arguing about now?
@ cyso: I don't get how your theory can explain why God didn't kill Adam and Eve at first. The Joseph example is irrelevant. Why would God choose to accomplish good things out of the terrible, instead of removing the source of sin at first?
@ Buggy: The topic 'How can god be good when there's so much bad in the world?' doesn't even make sense. Why can't God be good, if there's so much evil? Why can't an apple be an apple if it's in a basket full of pears? Good example though, to prove what you want to prove (I don't know what you're trying to prove, though)

[bugfartboy]

Because in truth, the source of sin is ourselves. We gained the knowlege of what sin was through the very first sin. Disobeying God.

[cyso]

Buggy got it exactly right. We are a source of sin. But rather than removing us entirely, he just uses us to bring about something better. That's what I was trying to point out with Joseph. Selling Joseph into slavery was a terrible thing to do. But if his brothers hadn't, then many people would have died in famine.

@ Buggy: The topic 'How can god be good when there's so much bad in the world?' doesn't even make sense. Why can't God be good, if there's so much evil? Why can't an apple be an apple if it's in a basket full of pears? Good example though, to prove what you want to prove (I don't know what you're trying to prove, though)

I think that the idea behind the topic 'How can God be good when there's so much bad in the world' is that people think that if God was really good, he would remove all traces of evil from the world. We being the sources of evil, that would mean removing us from the world. But God can still use evil to do whatever he wants. He can still use evil to bring about something better, so he permits it because the end result is much better.

One temptation of Jesus in the wilderness was to turn the stones in the wilderness to bread. I don't know this for sure, but I think there were probably a good number of stones. Part of what he was tempting Jesus to do was to forget about God and just do something good for himself. If everything was good in the world, we would probably forget about God.

[ArtDrake]

Just because someone launches a war in the name of a religion doesn't mean it is religiously justified. I don't think the word "crusade" appears in the Bible.

Yes, but we must purge the land of evil, right?

-- Demon Duck

What if a man or woman was the most atrocious person to have ever lived, but they didn't care?

What if they thought everything they did was right, and they were a Christian, and they prayed, and they worshipped, and they obeyed the commandments, and they never committed a deadly sin. What then, if they, throughout their whole life, wronged people to the greatest extent, while simply thinking themselves shrewd, or impassive, or oblivious?

What if they never defied their moral compass once, with no sin because they had no concept of good or evil, because they never had been told that the things they did were evil, wrong, atrocious; or maybe they had been told, but their faith blinded them, leading them to believe they were only working in the service of their Lord? No sin. God would have to let him or her in through the pearly gates, and everyone would know him or her, and they would recoil in fear of the awful person they knew in life whom they swore would not follow them into death. And "Heaven" would be as Hell. Fear, chaos, evil, lies would spread through the promised land above, and this merciless scourge without sin would leave hate and loathing where he went.

Now consider the opposite case. A man or woman learns of wrongs and rights, but they a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Confucianist, an aborigine with tribal beliefs. They live their life as best they can, and they go to Hell. This is why I don't like the message Christianity tries to get across, and for other reasons, too.

And punctuate your sentences correctly, will you? It's hard to read when you don't.

Okay. I'm going to quote this verse again. Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

When? I don't remember sinning.

--Blasphemous Billed One

You don't get into heaven because you don't sin.

So you go to hell for not sinning?

-- Insolent Insomniacal Waterfowl

If that were the case, no one would get into heaven.

People without sin would.

--Mallard of Malarkey

Sin isn't violating your moral compass, it is violating God's law and living your life apart from him.

But how can God condemn a person to eternal punishment for violating a law they didn't know existed?
I would think a kind and loving God would only punish you for doing something you know is wrong.

-- Funky Floater Fowl

It is ignoring God and telling him that you don't want to listen to him.

I can't say I've had the opportunity to do either. The latter's possibility is doubtful, given the current metaphysical climate, and the former is impossible, with you rubbing Him in my nose every few weeks.

-- Yawning Yellow One

As Christians, we still sin. This is a quote from some Christian (I forgot his name) as best I remember it.
The difference between a Christian and a Non-Christian is not that one has no sins and the other does, but that one takes part with a reconciled God against his sins while the other takes part with his sins against a dreaded God.
When a Christian gets to heaven, their sinful nature is completely erased so there will be no sin.

Up-bup-bub-bup-BUP! TISK! I don't have any sins on me. I took a shower, and I made sure to get them all off, with soap and somewhat holy water.
And how about when an atheist gets to heaven? Then what happens? I'll bet it's more impressive than sin erasure. I'll bet Hell freezes over the very same day.
And did I mention that I reject, loathe, despise, and quite regret my sins? Well -- the ones that hurt people. The ones like not worshipping a creator that's provided scant evidence for His claim, and who is completely invincible and invulnerable and all-powerful, and therefore cannot be hurt by anything, and therefore my choosing not to worship Him for dignity and integrity's sake couldn't hurt Him a bit.
Three letters. Q, E, and D.

-- Logical Louis Parker (with apologies to Alan Moore)

If there is a god, his actions throughout the centuries have not earned him my worship, but my enmity. If there is a god, he has allowed his holy teachings to be debased, misused and distorted. If there is a god, he is a murderer - a genocidal maniac who has committed more evil than any demon in the name of a passing fancy!

Why are we supposed to worship him merely for creating us, then proceeding to fill our lives with suffering and pain? If he is real, he is not perfect, but more flawed than any human.

You are basically asking how God can be good if there is so much evil in the world. God could have gotten rid of the evil in the very beginning by killing Adam and Eve and starting over. He wages of sin are death. But he didn't. Why? I can guess. Despite all of the terrible things that go on, God uses them to accomplish something good. In the story of Joseph in Genesis, Joseph's brothers sold him as a slave. In the end, Joseph ended up saving several people from a famine. He then says at the end, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." A good (or terrible, maybe) example of this would be the Holocaust. Despite how horrible that was, God used that to cause Israel to be reformed as a nation, like predicted in Ezekiel a lot earlier. It isn't exactly pleasant to think about it, but God can and will use terrible things to get stuff done. If he didn't, he wouldn't have anything to use at all.
The other part of the guess is that God's plan is to make the best possible ending. So, no matter how bad things are now, things will be okay in the end.
The last part of your post reminds me of a testimony I heard from someone in my youth group. Their life had been very bad. I won't go into all the details, but it included drugs, depression, and suicide attempts. I haven't said the worst of it, and I'm not going to. They are a Christian now. Their testimony is that, no matter how bad things get, God can help you still.
If our lives were always wonderful, then we wouldn't see our need for God. We would be content to live/die as we were.

Yes, but I don't see the need for God anyway. Maybe God should have made that bit clearer. Sure, he helped create the whole universe, but I've lived my life without even seeing the dang fool, and I don't see any reason to love the Dude now.

-- Opinionated Overbalanced One (splash!)

[cyso]

Just because someone launches a war in the name of a religion doesn't mean it is religiously justified. I don't think the word "crusade" appears in the Bible.

Yes, but we must purge the land of evil, right?

-- Demon Duck

What if a man or woman was the most atrocious person to have ever lived, but they didn't care?

What if they thought everything they did was right, and they were a Christian, and they prayed, and they worshipped, and they obeyed the commandments, and they never committed a deadly sin. What then, if they, throughout their whole life, wronged people to the greatest extent, while simply thinking themselves shrewd, or impassive, or oblivious?

What if they never defied their moral compass once, with no sin because they had no concept of good or evil, because they never had been told that the things they did were evil, wrong, atrocious; or maybe they had been told, but their faith blinded them, leading them to believe they were only working in the service of their Lord? No sin. God would have to let him or her in through the pearly gates, and everyone would know him or her, and they would recoil in fear of the awful person they knew in life whom they swore would not follow them into death. And "Heaven" would be as Hell. Fear, chaos, evil, lies would spread through the promised land above, and this merciless scourge without sin would leave hate and loathing where he went.

Now consider the opposite case. A man or woman learns of wrongs and rights, but they a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Confucianist, an aborigine with tribal beliefs. They live their life as best they can, and they go to Hell. This is why I don't like the message Christianity tries to get across, and for other reasons, too.

And punctuate your sentences correctly, will you? It's hard to read when you don't.

Okay. I'm going to quote this verse again. Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

When? I don't remember sinning.

--Blasphemous Billed One

You don't get into heaven because you don't sin.

So you go to hell for not sinning?

-- Insolent Insomniacal Waterfowl

If that were the case, no one would get into heaven.

People without sin would.

--Mallard of Malarkey

Sin isn't violating your moral compass, it is violating God's law and living your life apart from him.

But how can God condemn a person to eternal punishment for violating a law they didn't know existed?
I would think a kind and loving God would only punish you for doing something you know is wrong.

-- Funky Floater Fowl

It is ignoring God and telling him that you don't want to listen to him.

I can't say I've had the opportunity to do either. The latter's possibility is doubtful, given the current metaphysical climate, and the former is impossible, with you rubbing Him in my nose every few weeks.

-- Yawning Yellow One

As Christians, we still sin. This is a quote from some Christian (I forgot his name) as best I remember it.
The difference between a Christian and a Non-Christian is not that one has no sins and the other does, but that one takes part with a reconciled God against his sins while the other takes part with his sins against a dreaded God.
When a Christian gets to heaven, their sinful nature is completely erased so there will be no sin.

Up-bup-bub-bup-BUP! TISK! I don't have any sins on me. I took a shower, and I made sure to get them all off, with soap and somewhat holy water.
And how about when an atheist gets to heaven? Then what happens? I'll bet it's more impressive than sin erasure. I'll bet Hell freezes over the very same day.
And did I mention that I reject, loathe, despise, and quite regret my sins? Well -- the ones that hurt people. The ones like not worshipping a creator that's provided scant evidence for His claim, and who is completely invincible and invulnerable and all-powerful, and therefore cannot be hurt by anything, and therefore my choosing not to worship Him for dignity and integrity's sake couldn't hurt Him a bit.
Three letters. Q, E, and D.

-- Logical Louis Parker (with apologies to Alan Moore)

If there is a god, his actions throughout the centuries have not earned him my worship, but my enmity. If there is a god, he has allowed his holy teachings to be debased, misused and distorted. If there is a god, he is a murderer - a genocidal maniac who has committed more evil than any demon in the name of a passing fancy!

Why are we supposed to worship him merely for creating us, then proceeding to fill our lives with suffering and pain? If he is real, he is not perfect, but more flawed than any human.

You are basically asking how God can be good if there is so much evil in the world. God could have gotten rid of the evil in the very beginning by killing Adam and Eve and starting over. He wages of sin are death. But he didn't. Why? I can guess. Despite all of the terrible things that go on, God uses them to accomplish something good. In the story of Joseph in Genesis, Joseph's brothers sold him as a slave. In the end, Joseph ended up saving several people from a famine. He then says at the end, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." A good (or terrible, maybe) example of this would be the Holocaust. Despite how horrible that was, God used that to cause Israel to be reformed as a nation, like predicted in Ezekiel a lot earlier. It isn't exactly pleasant to think about it, but God can and will use terrible things to get stuff done. If he didn't, he wouldn't have anything to use at all.
The other part of the guess is that God's plan is to make the best possible ending. So, no matter how bad things are now, things will be okay in the end.
The last part of your post reminds me of a testimony I heard from someone in my youth group. Their life had been very bad. I won't go into all the details, but it included drugs, depression, and suicide attempts. I haven't said the worst of it, and I'm not going to. They are a Christian now. Their testimony is that, no matter how bad things get, God can help you still.
If our lives were always wonderful, then we wouldn't see our need for God. We would be content to live/die as we were.

Yes, but I don't see the need for God anyway. Maybe God should have made that bit clearer. Sure, he helped create the whole universe, but I've lived my life without even seeing the dang fool, and I don't see any reason to love the Dude now.

-- Opinionated Overbalanced One (splash!)

No, it doesn't say in the Bible that we must purge the land of evil. This is a quote from Revelation 22:11
"Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy."

You said yourself that you aren't perfect. You have said yourself that you have occasionally violated your own moral compass. You don't live how God would want you to live. You live apart from God.

When I said you don't get into heaven for not sinning, I meant that Christians do not go to heaven because they are perfect. They go because Jesus paid for our sins. If no one has paid for your sins, then you go to hell.

Yes, people without sin would get into heaven. There aren't any people without sin.

Ignorance of the law will not excuse you from the consequence of the law in America. It won't excuse you from the consequence of law with God, either. Just because you didn't know what the law was doesn't mean that you didn't break it. God isn't going to let you in heaven after you have broken the law. That would be about the equivalent of releasing someone for driving drunk and running someone over because they didn't know it was wrong or illegal to drive drunk. You wouldn't release him, God won't release people into heaven.

You are ignoring him. You aren't ignoring me, but you ignore him when you live your life completely apart from him and don't care a thing about him.

You have sins on you. I really hope the comment about washing sins off with soap was just a joke. Atheist don't get to heaven. And no, you can't hurt God, but you can annoy him or make him mad. He made himself fully human. By the way, not worshiping someone for your own dignity's sake seems to be a somewhat selfish reason. Of course, since you don't think he exists, I guess that probably isn't the reason you don't worship him.

You need God because you have sinned, and the wages of sin is death (eternal death). Without God, you go to hell. With God, you don't go to hell. If you don't care at all whether or not you need him, then stop saying that you don't see your need for him. If you don't understand the process or your need for him, then please feel free to ask.

[bugfartboy]

Not just with God. You need the full trinity of God. But they are all the same being.