Islam

[MikeW781]

Well see, I understand that but... If they DONT consider you a vile animal, and they don't try to convert you. They are going to hell.

Infact I already cited that. So all your Muslim friends are being punishes for common goodness.

That's kinda ignoring my point... even if that's what the Koran says, it is neither the official practice nor the common belief.

[ArtDrake]

And as the law of man shall be, so shall be the law of heaven. Oh, wait: that's a Catholic thing.

I happen to know some Muslims myself, and would like to say that they are perfectly normal people, and keep their religion to themself (I haven't noticed it, except to the extent they talk about it), and are nice, and don't try to convert me, and don't to all sorts of nasty things.

The point of Zack is that it's all very well and good to accuse another religion of not being peaceful when you ignore any and all comments directed at yours. There is no religion that is completely and utterly peaceful, through scripture, or through record, except for the exceptions of Flying Spaghetti Monsterism (Pastafarianism) and Jainism. If you really look closely at any religion, you will see traces of wanting other religions not to exist.

And no one's going to hell for being nice to me. In my system of belief, there isn't a hell. So you can drop that point, D-gonks.

[Deagonx]

The reason for ignoring them was because this is not about my beliefs.


@MikeW781

Their holy book is exactly what it is. It is the substance of their religion.
If they do not follow it, then they have corrupted an already mindlessly corrupt religion.


@Duckling


You stated no arguement to what I have said. Other than the supposed 'Oh I know nice muslims!"

You just reverberated what has already been stated and rebutted.




Now, you go ahead and make a 'Christianity' thread posting all those mean excerpts. And I will prove them wrong. I will show why what has been said is either not valid, or with good reason.


Why cannot you do the same for this thread?

[MikeW781]

The reason for ignoring them was because this is not about my beliefs.
@MikeW781

Their holy book is exactly what it is. It is the substance of their religion.
If they do not follow it, then they have corrupted an already mindlessly corrupt religion.

No, my point applies to the topic as a whole, not just your beliefs. It is true for all religions; they don't update their religious texts, which were written well over a thousand years ago, so things have changed since then.

[Deagonx]

For example? What has drastically changed in Christianity from then to now.

If you say slavery, you are a fool.

[ArtDrake]

If they do not follow it, then they have corrupted an already mindlessly corrupt religion.

That's hate speech. I will report that.

@Duckling

You stated no argu[]ment to what I have said. Other than the point that you know nice muslims!
You just reverberated what has already been stated and rebutted.

So, the point that I know multiple Muslims that neither attempt to convert, nor are going to hell any time soon, nor spit on me does not negate your point that Islam is a hateful, dangerous religion full of bad people who are all going to hell if they don't kill you?

Please do face the truth, D-gonks; a holy book tells you very little about a people in this day and age. Narrow-mindedness, making your text larger, using excessive spacing, and finding all the dirt on the Qur'an you can find on sites made by people devoted to trashing a perfectly legitimate, and peaceful, religion.

Now, you go ahead and make a 'Christianity' thread posting all those mean excerpts. And I will prove them wrong. I will show why what has been said is either not valid, or with good reason.

No. I will not sink to your level. If you want to make one, fine. Fill it with more trash about the superiority of the True Faith and how everyone else is a cruel, savage barbarian, and see if I care. See how far that approach gets you when you have to venture outside the bubble of people that want to hear this. I am done. But I warn subsequent visitors, pay no heed to the dangerous hate speech here.

EDIT: The modify button should fulfill all your double-posting needs, D-gonks.

If you say Islam is not peaceable, you are a fool.

My point is as valid as yours, D-gonks.

EDIT: Oh? Tell us all about the real meaning of the Islamic texts that seem so dark at first. Enlighten the world. Or can't you?

My Muslim friends are following their belief system. They have changed Islam in the bits where it would obviously not apply now.

[spoiler=logic; D-gonks needs it]Premise: Allah is a belief.

Premise: Beliefs are believed.

Conclusion: Allah is believed.

Premise: If a belief is not believed, it is not a belief.

Allah is / is not hateful.

Conslusion: A hateful Allah is/is not believed.

Conslusion: Hateful Allah is/is not a belief.

Premise: If loving Allah is believed, hateful Allah is not.

Premise: If hateful Allah is believed, loving Allah is not.

Premise: One can disobey a belief.

Conclusion: One can only disobey a belief if it is believed.

Conslusion: If loving Allah is believed, hateful Allah cannot be disobeyed.[/spoiler]

[Deagonx]

Factoid: The pronounciation of my username was intended as followed; Day-Gone-Eks



Points that have been made:

P1: Every religion has bad texts.

R1: Of course, though when enlightened upon the true meaning they are not 'bad.' If you want me to show the true meaning of those excerpts by all means do so.


P2: I have muslim friends who don't try to kill me or convert me.

R2: Then they are disobeying 'Allah.' As previously stated with an excerpt from the Qur'an


P3: Holy books don't represent a religion

R3: I hardly feel the need to respond to this. This is simply not true, the holy book is holy for a reason.



Now, when I bring up the terror attacks you say that only extremists do it?

Simple fact being, that is not extremist. They are doing exactly what their holy book tells them to. So am I. They aren't so bad if they are following their peaceful religion are they?




Once again, I shall repeat myself.

I have shown the true nature of Allah's teachings with excerpts from the book that he made to guide his followers.
Now, if I have somehow shown a bad example of the book. (Book being... Qur'an 28 for example. Not the entire thing.)

Then please explain to me how that excerpt fits into the big picture as a peaceful, loving religion.

[ArtDrake]

There is obviously a misunderstanding. When I say Islam, I mean the Islam that promotes kindness and giving and sharing and loving.

When you say Islam, you mean the outdated one that cuts people's hands off. When I refer to that, I say it is extremism. Cutting people's hands off, and killing unbelievers is what I call extreme.

The Holy Book represents the old religion. The new one doesn't go with everything the book says, or it simply was reinterpreted. Reinterpretation is quite a useful concept to understand in this area, D-gonks. We can't all take things literally. Otherwise, we might become convinced Jesus Christs smites olive trees because they are out of season. He obviously doesn't do that, and for the same reason, we must make the leap of intuition (trust me, it's a hard one to make for some people) that not all Muslims are evil bastards.

Are you up to the task?

[Deagonx]

Now, where exactly along the line did they make this change?




Extremists are the ones who are faithful to their religion. And did not distort it.


Factoid: If there is a contradiction between 2 excerpts, go with the excerpt from the more recent book.


Whats with the d-gonks?

[ArtDrake]

That's interesting. I thought extremism was when people misinterpreted their religion to such a great extent that they become extreme in their measures of carrying out the will of their god.

Extremists are the ones who are faithful to their religion. And did not distort it.

Y'see, that's the sort of thing to say that gets you on the terrorism watchlist.

[Deagonx]

Wearing a turban gets you on that watchlist.



I was using extremists as a specifically directed noun. Directed at the so called muslim 'extremists'


They carry out the will of god because the qur'an tells them so.

[ArtDrake]

No, the القرآن is not telling them to kill people. It's actually (as accepted by many Muslims today) a metaphor.

[Deagonx]

No, the القرآن is not telling them to kill people. It's actually (as manipulated by many Muslims today) a metaphor.

I fixed that for you.

[ArtDrake]

No, you changed it. But, y'see, Muslims can't manipulate a text, just like Christians can't possibly manipulate a religious text to make it seem like God says there should be a Pope. It's not manipulation; it's reinterpretation. I can see you're still not able to grasp the concept.

[Deagonx]

I see that you think that this 'reinterpretation' isn't 'manipulation'