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What organiztion would you hire to get rid of a threat?

Assassin's Cult
Order of the Black Rose

Author Topic: Spriggat Assassins?  (Read 10774 times)

Offline SmartyPants

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Spriggat Assassins?
« on: February 24, 2010, 07:23:28 PM »
With the Shadowling Republic's policies of equality, would the Assassin's Cult allow Spriggats into their organiztion?

Offline KZ

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2010, 09:44:22 AM »
Good question. I believe it was brought up some time ago back on the old forums, and my answer is still the same: as in any militaristic organisation, it will be rather conservative so changes will take place much more slowly in it. So although the Spriggats might be trated as equals in most of the Shadowling society by the time of TSoG, it might be that Spriggats would just start to become accepted into Psy Assassin ranks. They could also form alternative, Spriggat only, organization. Or it might be the case that during TSoG it would be the time of "for the first time ever..." a Spriggat included, a Spriggat successful, etc.
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Offline SmartyPants

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2010, 08:26:37 AM »
Good question. I believe it was brought up some time ago back on the old forums, and my answer is still the same: as in any militaristic organisation, it will be rather conservative so changes will take place much more slowly in it. So although the Spriggats might be trated as equals in most of the Shadowling society by the time of TSoG, it might be that Spriggats would just start to become accepted into Psy Assassin ranks.
Despite a military's resistance to change, the political aspect of government can force them to accept new policy.

Examples:
*President Truman gave an Executive Order to integrate the armed forces
*Congress is trying to end "Don't ask, don't tell"

Offline KZ

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2010, 08:49:17 AM »
That can happen, but the example are sparse and far between. Acceleration of change usually happens during great military conflicts: such as the women's death battalion in the Soviet Army, then the women's military formations in British and US armies during WWII, as well as the "all-black" units that were formed and which had quite impressive battle statistics.
Yet, after the Shadow Wars, it looks like no major conflict took place in the meantime, hence the process of integration of Spriggats has not been catalysed by necessity.

Also, trained assassins is a special issue- I doubt any government would want to publicly highlight their existence much, and even much less so any development of said branch. Though to be fair, given how the Shadowling society was quite militaristic, the public opinion may be indifferent or even favourable on the issue. (Think of how in 20th century KGB, CIA and MI6 were mentioned in politics.)
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Offline SmartyPants

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2010, 09:25:48 AM »
That can happen, but the example are sparse and far between. Acceleration of change usually happens during great military conflicts: such as the women's death battalion in the Soviet Army, then the women's military formations in British and US armies during WWII, as well as the "all-black" units that were formed and which had quite impressive battle statistics.
Yet, after the Shadow Wars, it looks like no major conflict took place in the meantime, hence the process of integration of Spriggats has not been catalysed by necessity.
It would be consider necessary by those Spriggats who demand equality. Both of my examples were not durring "great military conflicts".  Women soldiers were allowed into the American armed forces during a time of peace.

Also, trained assassins is a special issue- I doubt any government would want to publicly highlight their existence much, and even much less so any development of said branch. Though to be fair, given how the Shadowling society was quite militaristic, the public opinion may be indifferent or even favourable on the issue. (Think of how in 20th century KGB, CIA and MI6 were mentioned in politics.)
The Assassin's Cult is more like Army Rangers, Navy SEALs, Army Green Berets, and Army Delta Force.  Being a Division of the Military, it would follow all the same rules as the rest of the military.

Offline KZ

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 12:55:25 PM »
In most cases, however, such changes are made during significant military confrontations, or right before/after the events, when, say, army modernisation or evolution is required in order to have an edge over the enemy.


I see the assassin's cult as covered ops and specializing mostly in political assassinations, or performing private functions, which is more akin to what the spy services do on occaison- like the Mossad.
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Offline cyso

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2010, 03:41:05 PM »
Even if the Assassin's Cult wouldn't let spriggats in, the sprigatts could always for their own cult, though I do admit it would be weird to have two assassin's cults in one city-state.
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Offline SmartyPants

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 03:14:35 PM »
Two Assassin Cults that do the same thing, but are racially divided sounds like a very dumb, inefficient idea.

Offline Zhampir

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 09:04:06 PM »
Races and the hatred between them have often been the cause for such inefficiency in our own history.

Offline KZ

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 11:45:02 AM »
Zhampir is right, there are examples aplenty when there were two organisations doing exactly the same thing. For instance, in 19th century Russia there were effectively two police agencies with many of the functions crossing over. Same goes for KGB and GRU, with the divide coming in the form of the first being civilan, and the second being military. Then take Italy, for instance- there is the Polizia, and then there is the Gendarmeria, which practically does the same thing. The argument for having two organisations is that they'll try to outcompete each other, but this strategy oftern backfires when they simply start suspecting each other and preventing the other organisation from carrying out their plans.

Nevertheless, I think that there is a possibility for Spriggats getting accepted into the Cult as time passes by, I am just unsure wherether a few decades is enough after millenia of division (and taking into consideration that these beings live much longer- a few hundred years, by the looks of it, so generation changes and historical events fall into oblivion much more slowly).
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Offline SmartyPants

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 05:00:24 PM »
Nevertheless, I think that there is a possibility for Spriggats getting accepted into the Cult as time passes by, I am just unsure wherether a few decades is enough after millenia of division (and taking into consideration that these beings live much longer- a few hundred years, by the looks of it, so generation changes and historical events fall into oblivion much more slowly).
In about four decades, America went from the Jim Crow Laws to electing an African American president.
After several decades, I don't see much of a strech in admitting Spriggats into a military orgainzation.
It is unlikely that Shadowlings outnumber Spriggats enough for Spriggats to be considered a minority.  Since Spriggats are not a minority, their voting power in a republic can change things very easily.  One easy change would be desegregation.

Offline KZ

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2010, 02:09:45 PM »
The process took more than for decades, five at least, if we start with the mid-60ies, otherwise the Jim Crow laws were changed from open to covered starting from the early 20th century.
We don't know how many Spriggats there are in comparison to Shadowlings, but from playing TRPG2, I got an impression that there were fewer Spriggats than Shadowlings (don't forget that Nelis killed off most of the female Spriggats to "keep the population in check"). Nevertheless, I strongly suspect that we soon will find out the answer to this question.
In the meantime, I see no reason for the then-rebels to set up their own organization, whilst the braver Spriggats attempt to get accepted into the Assassin's Cult.
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Offline Mopman

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2010, 06:56:36 PM »
I feel that the assasins cult would admit the spriggats if only for their diffrences- after all, most shadowlings start off with shadow affinity, so fire and cyro(and possibly light) would be seen as incredibly useful.
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Offline MikeW781

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2010, 07:06:53 PM »
the game rarely mentions affinity straight out like "lets have light-based fighters too"
also, spriggats don't make good assassins
they aren't too fast, and were mainly deployed as tank units in TRGP2
they are more comparable to shadowling guardians than shadowling assassins
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Offline Zhampir

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Re: Spriggat Assassins?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2010, 07:49:24 PM »
Rarely? how so? things colored red breath fire, white- freeze, and black- shadow. The game is rather obvious on this point.