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Started by Deagonx, September 05, 2011, 09:18:05 PM
Quote from: Gath on January 05, 2012, 04:01:23 PMI'd say Obama is going to be the winner, hands down. No really respectable republicans are running. (alliteration...whoo!) I don't think any of those candidates will be able to challenge Obama in the GE.
Quote from: Gath on January 05, 2012, 04:01:23 PMI think the most interesting part about the caucus would be that almost 50% of people under 30 voted for Paul. That could mean a huge change in the Republican party will come soon, as the young are supporting libertarian views. It also seems that the Conservative base has grown more radical over the years, so...I think it's coming.
Quote from: Duckling on January 05, 2012, 05:55:29 PMThat's a huge overgeneralization you made right there, calling the entire Democratic Party and the entire left fear-mongers.
Quote from: Duckling on January 05, 2012, 05:55:29 PMDemocrats tend towards disliking the Republican candidates because some of them express highly socially conservative viewpoints, like standing against gay marriage, abortion, and contraceptives, arguing against providing basic government services to the poor and unemployed, and quoting from outdated literature during speeches.
Quote from: Duckling on January 05, 2012, 07:47:16 PMQuote from: SmartyPants on January 05, 2012, 06:32:15 PMPlus, I don't get your point. Democrats don't like Republicans because they have differing ideology. What does that have to do with anything?I'm saying that Democrats speak out against Republicans not because they are "fear-mongers" as you suggest, but because they have differing opinions on important issues.
Quote from: SmartyPants on January 05, 2012, 06:32:15 PMPlus, I don't get your point. Democrats don't like Republicans because they have differing ideology. What does that have to do with anything?
Quote from: SmartyPants on January 05, 2012, 05:34:23 PMPolls show that Romeny is better liked then Obama when comes to the general population and when comes to independents. Conservatives don't even have to like Romney to vote for him. The conservatives voters hate Obama enough that they will vote in droves for anyone to replace Obama.
Quote from: SmartyPants on January 05, 2012, 05:34:23 PMFirst, many of the people who like Ron Paul don't like actually know what he believes. People vote for him because they believe he represents the libertarian ideology. I find it similar to many of the people who voted for Obama in 2008. Many of the voters didn't know Obama's record or platform, yet they still voted for him because he represents "Hope" and "Change". Fun fact: Ron Paul is the congressional representative of my district.
Quote from: SmartyPants on January 05, 2012, 05:34:23 PMSecond, the Democrats and the left are fear mongers. They are propagating that the Republican party is now "radical", so people will support Democrats inorder to stop the "radical" republicans from destroying the world or whatever b.s. they come up with. It only seems that the conservative base is farther to the right because the far-right has become more vocal then the silent majority. The majority of people are not part of the tea party or occupy wall street, yet the media spend much thier focus on these more vocal demonstrations.
Quote from: CraigStern on January 06, 2012, 08:49:28 AMThere is a reason why Congressional Republicans (not all Republicans, mind you--just the ones representing the party in Congress) are widely looked upon as radicals. Mitch McConnell, head of the Republicans in the Senate, infamously remarked that, in the face of all our national problems, his number one priority was not to solve them, but rather to make Obama a one-term president. Congressional Republicans then followed this up by filibustering nearly every single attempt at fixing the economy, betting that voters would blame Obama when the economy failed to improve. And who could forget the debt ceiling disaster? John Boehner just kept walking away from good faith negotiations over and over again, dragging us to the brink of defaulting on our international obligations.
Quote from: CraigStern on January 06, 2012, 08:49:28 AMI know you identify with the Republicans, so maybe it's hard for you to see it, but for someone viewing this from outside the GOP tent, these things really make the current crop of Republicans in Congress look like cynical, power-hungry jackals willing to scuttle the US economy for a shot at reclaiming the White House. "Radical" is just a more succinct way of putting it.
Quote from: Gath on January 06, 2012, 10:35:10 PMI'm expecting a split republican vote between Romney as the candidate and Paul as a third party candidate. The only incumbent who hasn't won in the past twenty-five years was George Bush I, and that was only because Ross Peirot decided to run.
Quote from: Gath on January 06, 2012, 10:35:10 PMYour point being? They voted for him because they believed he was a libertarian. Regardless of what Paul believes, that means the Republican party is shifting to more libertarian views.
Quote from: Gath on January 06, 2012, 10:35:10 PMSorry, but this post seems a bit biased to me. It's hard to have a debate when someone accuses the entire other side of using b.s. I'm going to say the same thing that I say to everyone who thinks a certain party is 'lying'
Quote from: Gath on January 06, 2012, 10:35:10 PMGet out of the competitive spirit, and consider the possibility that most politicians are genuinely working for the good of the nation. Both the party you support and the other party.
Quote from: SmartyPants on January 07, 2012, 01:38:58 AMI don't think the Republicans are more libertarian then they were pre-Obama. Libertarians have become more vocal and active in politics recently, because they have become so angry at Obama for trying to move the country towards socialism and by him trying to increase the deficit.
Quote from: SmartyPants on January 07, 2012, 01:38:58 AMI have seen/read that Barack Obama, Debbie Shultz, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid make misleading, false comments with the obvious purpose of scoring political points. It is possible that there are other Democrats who having accused the Republican party of being hijacked by radicals, but they don't tend to be heard as much in the news.
Quote from: Gath on January 07, 2012, 10:11:52 AMThe votes in the Iowa Caucus determine my view. Yes, libertarians have gotten more vocal, but with a huge number of young republicans voting libertarian, it doesn't seem like a passing thing.
Quote from: Gath on January 07, 2012, 10:11:52 AMAs do some republicans. Failure to acknowledge the good points and flaws of both sides will lead to bias. Some democrats make misleading comments, as do some republicans. Even Mitt Romney does it. So yes, your post implied that all democrats lie, which is certainly not true. It's a problem, but a problem that is shared equally by both sides.
Quote from: SmartyPants on January 07, 2012, 04:47:09 PMYour article claims that the Romney add has Obama saying ""If we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose," while Obama really said "Senator McCain's campaign actually said, and I quote, if we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose." I find it ironic, because I remember that the 2008 McCain campaign accused Obama of lying for putting those exact words in thier mouths.I am a little more understanding of Romney because his job right now isn't to run the country. When Romney is playing politics, it doesn't get in the way of running the government. When Obama and Boehner play politics, they aren't doing thier jobs. When Obama refuses to make a decision on the Keystone XL Pipeline until after the election in order to help reelection campaign, he is acting more like a politician then a president. When Boehner has a bill that removes Obamacare passed in House while knowing it will either be shot down by the Senate or vetoed by the white house, he is acting more like a politician then a lawmaker.I was okay with Campaign Obama of going on The View and SNL, but I find it tacky for a President to go on Letterman or The View. As a President, Obama should be focusing on fixing the economy and winning the war on terror instead of campaigning on talk shows.
Quote from: SmartyPants on January 07, 2012, 11:01:56 PMInstead of debating on a compromise, the Democrat leaders are lying and naming calling. Of course, Republicans don't want to work with the same people who are calling them "crazy" and "radical". It shows that they find winning elections to be more important then running the government.
Quote from: SmartyPants on January 07, 2012, 01:38:58 AMB) You linked "filibustering nearly every single attempt at fixing the economy" to article from a bias source.
Quote from: SmartyPants on January 07, 2012, 01:38:58 AMObama is the cause of the polarized political climate. Obama refused to do anything bipartisan when Democrats controlled the Senate, the House, and the White House. While earlier presidents such as Reagan, H. W. Bush, Clinton, and even W. Bush were respectful and willing to work with their rivals, Obama snubbed the rival party. During the health care debate, Obama only had to make the health care bill bipartisan enough to win one Republican senator, but Obama refused to compromise with Republicans.
Quote from: Duckling on January 08, 2012, 09:58:43 PMSo I could see where both sides were coming from, right up until the part where SmartyPants was saying that presidents shouldn't behave like politicians. That's silly, from my point of view.
Quote from: CraigStern on January 09, 2012, 05:27:43 PMLet's take a trip down memory lane! You may recall that, at the point that health care was on the table, Democrats controlled the White House as well as both houses of Congress. Even with that, Obama still decided to try to compromise with Republicans. And who could forget when Obama scuttled the public option over the vehement protests of his own base?
Quote from: CraigStern on January 09, 2012, 05:27:43 PMQuote from: SmartyPants on January 07, 2012, 01:38:58 AMB) You linked "filibustering nearly every single attempt at fixing the economy" to article from a bias source.That table is a visualization of data from the Senate. See for yourself. Unless you think the Senate is doctoring its own numbers on procedural vote counts, I think you have to concede that filibustering is much more prevalent these past three years than it has been at any other time for which such numbers are available in our history.
Quote from: CraigStern on January 09, 2012, 05:27:43 PMRepublican strategists were quite vocal about this fact, with Senator Jim DeMint stating that he wanted health care to be Obama's "Waterloo." If you have some sort of source that suggests that Obama made no compromises and the Republicans were willing to negotiate, now would be a good time for you to cite one.
Quote from: CraigStern on January 09, 2012, 05:27:43 PMAnd let's not forget the debt ceiling fiasco, and Boehner threatening to shut down the government, and so on and so on.
Quote from: CraigStern on January 09, 2012, 05:27:43 PMSimply, Republicans in Congress have set a new historical bar for obstructionism during Obama's presidency. That is not a matter of debate: the numbers are right here. I suppose you could argue that they did so with good intentions, but we're talking about whether it's okay for Democrats to call them radical.