Aquatic Movement

[SmartyPants]

Would it be possible to modd a unit to be able to swim without taking damage like the Pirates of Fire Emblem?

Currently, you can do this by making a unit fly. However, to really make a unit like a Fire Emblem Pirate, I'd need to add a third movement type: aquatic. I was actually thinking of doing this at one point, but sort of forgot about it. It remains on the wish list, though it's not especially high priority just now. Feel free to remind me in a couple of months.

Wouldn't be cool if there were units who could swim without consequences?  If there were units with the aquatic movement type, then one can see campaigns with lizardmen from the swamp and pirates from the sea.  While not as mobile as flying units, aquatic units would still be a fun, new challenge.  In land covered in rivers, swamps, and waterways, aquadic enemies would be highly mobile threat that wouldn't be vulnerable to piercing damage like their flying counterparts.

[SmartyPants]

Current rules on Swimming through water:
• If a non-flying character ever begins a turn in water, that character cannot move normally: instead, it must swim.
• A swimming character spends 2 Energy to move a single space, either through water, or else onto land from water. After swimming the single space, the character's turn ends.
• Any character that begins a turn on an environmental hazard while not flying takes damage from the environmental hazard. By default, water deals 6 drowning damage per turn.
• Characters stranded in an environmental hazard cannot Move normally and cannot use Skills: all they can do is access the Inventory, Swim, or rest for the turn.

[Ertxiem]

Yes, swimming is an interesting idea. However, the equipment (armor and weapons) that the units may carry can penalize them, that could be seen in terms of health and perhaps even in psy points.
(I just wouldn't call it drowning damage.)
So, yes to swimming and yes to consequences (hence my maybe in the poll).

Just thinking about the maps, we could make things interesting by making a cave accessible only by swimming, or we could swim through a shortcut to arrive faster at some part in the map.

[SmartyPants]

However, the equipment (armor and weapons) that the units may carry can penalize them, that could be seen in terms of health.

One would expect an aquatic unit to have less heavy equipment than its grounded counterpart.  I am going to use the swordsman class as an example to explain the difference between land and aquatic units:

• A land swordsman would be like a heavily armored knight.  The knight has heavy armor that protects him.  Although the heavy equipment makes the knight formidable on land, he would be incapable of swimming in the water due to the extra weight.
• An aquatic swordsman would be like the lightly armored pirate.  The pirate lacks the strong armor of the knight, but he will be able to swim because he wouldn't be burdened by heavy armor.

This means that when someone is modding a swordsman to be aquatic, they should make the aquatic unit have less armor (which means less health and physical resistance) than a regular land unit.  Since the aquadic unit wouldn't be burdened with heavy equipment, the aquadic unit shouldn't lose health for swimming.  However, swimming still should still cost extra energy or movements for an aquadic unit, yet it should still cost less energy/movement than the regular land unit in water.

Just thinking about the maps, we could make things interesting by making a cave accessible only by swimming, or we could swim through a shortcut to arrive faster at some part in the map.

Those are some interesting ideas.  I was mostly thinking of making aquatic enemies, but aquatic units that players control sounds like a fun thing to try.

[ArtDrake]

Thing is, I'm not a maybe, or on the fence about the idea -- I'm completely ambivalent. No vote from me.

[SmartyPants]

When playing the demo, I realized that swimming is more like drowning and it's also very hard to get out of the water again. For me, it would be nice if there were certain classes who are able to swin (those without metal armor p.e.) and others who are not. This could open more tactical possibilities. It should still drain much energy.

[SmartyPants]

Accordin' t' a previous poll, people love pirates such as Pirate Pete. I believe that Aquatic Movement be t' perfect solution t' satisfy people's nich for pirates. T' aquatic pirates will be much more mobile around water than those landlubbers, and they won't be vulnerable t' piercin' damage like those narsty flyin' beasts.

[ArtDrake]

But most pirates weren't able to swim -- they stayed aboard the ship, given that the waters were either too cold to survive long, or that boats most very quickly compared to a swimming man, and it's easy to get lost in the waves. That is, there was no benefit to swimming. I would say it would make more sense for lizardmen to be amphibious [not because of their biological nature -- that makes no sense, as pretty much the only lizards that can swim are crocodile skinks and water dragons, and I find it unlikely that the lizardmen descended from either, but I digress] in that such races are generally assumed to come from marshes or swamps, where a large river might have many tributaries, and thus navigation by canoe would be viable and useful.

What I'm saying is, the only feasible way of having an amphibious unit as I see it is to get someone who can actually swim [unlikely, considering everone's amazing proclivity for drowning in TT] or to have someone who can bring a lightweight boat along the land with them. It would have to be a specialised class of lizardman, but I feel it would, overall, make more sense.

[CraigStern]

Random thing: Pirates are an axe-wielding class in the Fire Emblem games that can move through water tiles. I'm not sure if Smarty was intentionally referencing that or not, but I just sort of assumed that's what he was going for there.

[ArtDrake]

He does seem to link to Fire Emblem wiki pages quite a bit. Then let not mere fact stand in the way of established gaming precedent!

[SmartyPants]

But most pirates weren't able to swim -- they stayed aboard the ship, given that the waters were either too cold to survive long, or that boats most very quickly compared to a swimming man, and it's easy to get lost in the waves.

Many pirates in t' 17th Century didn't need t' learn how t' swim, because a pirate be doomed t' Davy Jones' Locker as soon as they fall overboard in blue water. However, thar be many differences between real world pirates and t' pirates o' t' Telepath series. For example, you won't see six pounders and pistols in Cera Bella, and you won't see golems and telepaths in t' real world. Another difference can be that t' pirates o' t' Dundar Archipelago value t' ability t' swim because it helps them combat Mentalists' who can easily push or pull them overboard.

I would say it would make more sense for lizardmen to be amphibious in that such races are generally assumed to come from marshes or swamps, where a large river might have many tributaries.

I agree that certain lizardmen could be very apt at swimmin' through swamps and accross streams due t' the environment they grow up in.

Random thing: Pirates are an axe-wielding class in the Fire Emblem games that can move through water tiles. I'm not sure if Smarty was intentionally referencing that or not, but I just sort of assumed that's what he was going for there.

Aye, the pirates and berserkers of Fire Emblem be me muse.

He does seem to link to Fire Emblem wiki pages quite a bit. Then let not mere fact stand in the way of established gaming precedent!

What established gamin' precedent?

[ArtDrake]

|SP: What established [gaming] precedent?|

I was just pretty much concurring with you, having realised that you were drawing from Fire Emblem for the abilities of the proposed Pirates, and that thus there was precedent for swimming pirates.

[SmartyPants]

Do you concur that aquatic movement should be in t' game, or be you just agreein' with t' fact that pirates swim in turn-based tactic games?"

[SmartyPants]

I was trying to mod a version of Swim that could be used an "Unlimited" number of times during a turn instead of the usual Swim that "EndTurn" after being used.  Unfortunately, this seems to be outside my modding capability.  I would also prefer that the Unlimited version of swim only apply to water, instead of both water and lava.

[bugfartboy]

From what I understand from Craig while I was having issues with attacks, Swim is assigned to every character by default. I believe it may not be quite possible to do what you tried... Yet...?