Author Topic: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill  (Read 24309 times)

Offline SmartyPants

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Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« on: April 23, 2010, 02:29:30 PM »
Arizona passed a bill that gives police officers the power to catch unwanted criminals.
What do you think about it?

Offline Zhampir

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2010, 07:49:28 PM »
In a world without racism, I would be for this, as the ones prosecuted (if done correctly) would be illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, racism does exist, as do statistics, and so prejudice remains supreme and will further divide the society apart. Heh, you can apply physics to behavior, everything is constantly becoming "messier"

Offline SmartyPants

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2010, 07:16:49 AM »
The bill itself states that racial profiling would be illegal and can't be used.

There are other ways to have reasonable suspicion.  For example: Lets say a cop pulls over someone for a traffic violation and the driver is unable to produce licence and registration.  The cop then asks the driver where he is from and the driver can't get his story straight.  Black, white, or hispanic doesn't matter in this case, because there is reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing.

Hispanics are more worried about the cops deporting their illegal family members, then a cop asking for identification.

Offline MikeW781

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2010, 03:05:37 PM »
Hispanics are more worried about the cops deporting their illegal family members, then a cop asking for identification.
Stereotypical much?
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Offline Pylons

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2010, 03:28:45 PM »
Meh. Considering that Arizona is near Mexico and thus the majority of illegal immigrants to it will be Mexican, I'm more ticked off by the idea that this law will get some random activists to decry 'racial profiling' because the majority of people to be prosecuted by this law will almost definitely be Mexican.

Offline MikeW781

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2010, 03:36:31 PM »
I agree. A clear case of people ignoring cause and affect and statistics because the results show up as racist.
Mexicans ARE usually the ones crossing the border BECAUSE THEY CAN DO SO WITHOUT A BOAT
Jews DID tend to (Edit) be called "money-grubbers" due to their place as bankers in many nations. This position was beause most religons at the time, especially Christianity, had the idea that handling money was a sin. Thus, they usually had the Jews (who had no problem with it) or servants take jobs involving money.
There are other examples, but i recently heard lectures involving both these examples, with undereducated people arguing that these facts were wrong because they are racist. It was during a debate about affirmative action-and it was accepted as a valid point!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 03:23:40 PM by mikew781 »
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Offline SmartyPants

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2010, 06:07:16 PM »
Hispanics are more worried about the cops deporting their illegal family members, then a cop asking for identification.
Stereotypical much?
I live in Texas, so I know more about illegal immigration then most notherners.  Most hispanics(not all) have family who is illegal.  Several of my classmates were born in the US, but their parents came here illegally.  One guy claims that he carries his birth certificate in his wallet at all times.  The issue they have is not proving that they are citizens; the issue is their parents, cousins, older siblings, and other relatives may be deported.  "Racial profiling" is a pretext to prevent Arizona law enforcement from deporting hispanics.

Meh. Considering that Arizona is near Mexico and thus the majority of illegal immigrants to it will be Mexican, I'm more ticked off by the idea that this law will get some random activists to decry 'racial profiling' because the majority of people to be prosecuted by this law will almost definitely be Mexican.
Would you call a law that helps catch murders "sexest", because a majority of murders are committed by men?  I don't care about the demographics.  I don't care if the illegal immigrants are from Mexico, Kenya, Afghanistan, China, or Canada. They committed a crime and should be punished for it.

Jews DID tend to be money-grubbers due to their place as bankers in many nations. This position was beause most religons at the time, especially Christianity, had the idea that handling money was a sin. Thus, they usually had the Jews (who had no problem with it) or servants take jobs involving money.
It is more likely that some racists were jealous of financially successful jews and they tried to make their financial success a bad thing by calling them "money-grubbers".

I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were not trying to sound racist and your careless wording was misinterpreted as racist.

Offline CraigStern

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2010, 03:07:15 PM »
Jews DID tend to be money-grubbers due to their place as bankers in many nations. This position was beause most religons at the time, especially Christianity, had the idea that handling money was a sin. Thus, they usually had the Jews (who had no problem with it) or servants take jobs involving money.

Hold on a second. You are correct that usury was oftentimes left to European jews during the Middle Ages, but money grubber is a term with serious negative connotations, ones which really aren't justified by the facts you're presenting. History isn't destiny, and heritage isn't identity. Just because some Jews were left to become bankers centuries ago, that does not mean that modern-day Jews are bankers, much less obsessed with money.

I would like to remind everyone to steer clear of promulgating racial stereotypes on these boards. That is something I absolutely will not tolerate here.

Offline MikeW781

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2010, 03:22:43 PM »
apologies, that was an unecessary negative connatation
I was just far to irratated with the recent lecture that i heard somebody at my school give my friend (who is Jewish) when he suggested that his surname origanted as a slur from banking
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Offline CraigStern

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2010, 04:04:32 PM »
Fair enough. Apology accepted. :)

Offline SmartyPants

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2010, 05:24:33 PM »
Fair enough. Apology accepted. :)
With that settled, do you have an opinionon the original topic.

Offline CraigStern

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2010, 05:30:50 PM »
I don't approve of legislation which gives anyplace the feel of a police state. Requiring people to carry around papers documenting their citizenship status and allowing the police to stop people without probable cause goes much too far for my tastes.

Offline SmartyPants

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2010, 05:52:54 PM »
I don't approve of legislation which gives anyplace the feel of a police state. Requiring people to carry around papers documenting their citizenship status and allowing the police to stop people without probable cause goes much too far for my tastes.
Don't you have your drivers license on your person at all times anyway?  The police are only allowed to stop people with reasonable suspicion or "probable cause".

Offline Zhampir

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2010, 06:04:09 PM »
just because the bill makes racial profiling illegal, doesn't mean it will stop it, even in our own law enforcement. The police can all ways find a reason to pull somebody over. I don't know about the pigs around you, but round here, if they don't like the look of ya they'll "find" something to take you in on. It's not right, but it happens.

so I will not support a law that just gives them another way to abuse their power. Sure, there are good cops, but there are bitter angry ones that see the whole world as another criminal, and will do anything to express their "power"

Offline Pylons

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Re: Arizona's Immigration Enforcement Bill
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2010, 07:29:11 PM »


Meh. Considering that Arizona is near Mexico and thus the majority of illegal immigrants to it will be Mexican, I'm more ticked off by the idea that this law will get some random activists to decry 'racial profiling' because the majority of people to be prosecuted by this law will almost definitely be Mexican.
Would you call a law that helps catch murders "sexest", because a majority of murders are committed by men?  I don't care about the demographics.  I don't care if the illegal immigrants are from Mexico, Kenya, Afghanistan, China, or Canada. They committed a crime and should be punished for it.

[/quote]

I wouldn't. A yellow paper will, inevitably, try to sensationalize a topic as sensitive and debatable as illegal immigration. There would inevitably be stories about little children being sent to foster homes when their parents got deported.

The problem with 'reasonable suspicion' or 'probable cause' is that those terms can easily be taken out of context, because they are very difficult to quantify.

Ultimately, while I generally agree with the idea, I do agree with im2smart4u's comment that racial profiling is going to be a pretext for repealing or protesting the law.

And protesters piss me off.